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Caravan & Car rolls....scary video


Robbido
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Poor loading - excessive speed - inexperienced driver - bow wave?  . . . Take your pick.

Either way, I hope nobody was seriously hurt.

ExTenter

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Forgot to clean the paint off his towball ?

 

 

 

 

Dave

Jeep Commander 3. 0 V6 CRD

Isuzu D- Max Utah Auto

Elddis Crusader Storm 2000 Kgs, Unipart Royal Atlas Mover .

 

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disobeying the caravan gods and running at a 85.1% match

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It certainly shows how little time there is between "the caravan is starting to move around" and "ouch".

 

2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

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Maybe the Alko ATC would have helped with this one?

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I am never ceased to be amazed by the fact that no matter how severe an incident, such as this one where multiple rolls occur, the actual tow hitch NEVER EVER breaks (I am talking about the ball type hitches we are all familiar with, not the “pin” hitches used on agricultural type trailers)   

 

Andy 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

I am never ceased to be amazed by the fact that no matter how severe an incident, such as this one where multiple rolls occur, the actual tow hitch NEVER EVER breaks (I am talking about the ball type hitches we are all familiar with, not the “pin” hitches used on agricultural type trailers)   

 

Andy 

 

Just what was going through my mind after watching the video!

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No sign of brake lights. Why the driver didn't abort the overtaking manoeuvre as soon as he noticed that the caravan was starting to get twitchy is a mystery to me. After all, it was already swaying as it came into the picture. A further full 8 seconds go by before it actually rolls. Plenty of time to take evasive action.

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IN that situation braking is the last thing to do. The reason being that if you brake the caravan will, because it’s moving side to side, apply extra sideways pressure to the back of the towing vehicle pushing it further out of line and making the snake even worse.  

 

And BEFORE anyone says “Well that’s what ATC does isn’t it?”  Well Yes you are sort of right.

 

The big difference being that when ATC activates it’s operates ONLY the caravans brakes and not the towing vehicles. Therefore the caravan brakes are applied and that has the effect of slowing the caravan slightly. That. backwards  “pull” on the tow hitch pulls the caravan and towing vehicle back into a straight line and cancels out the snaking action because the caravan brakes are attempting to stop both vehicles so pull everything back into line.

 

Mind you I would imagine it’s VERY difficult, in that situation, to resist the temptation to hammer the brakes on even if it IS the worst thing to do.

 

Andy 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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26 minutes ago, Lutz said:

. A further full 8 seconds go by before it actually rolls. Plenty of time to take evasive action.

Not if your buttocks are clenched, your knuckles are white and your eyes are closed :(

2018 Volvo XC60  D4 AWD + Penshurst Premier Plus (AKA Elddis Affinity 550)

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1 hour ago, Mr Plodd said:

IN that situation braking is the last thing to do. The reason being that if you brake the caravan will, because it’s moving side to side, apply extra sideways pressure to the back of the towing vehicle pushing it further out of line and making the snake even worse.  

 

And BEFORE anyone says “Well that’s what ATC does isn’t it?”  Well Yes you are sort of right.

 

The big difference being that when ATC activates it’s operates ONLY the caravans brakes and not the towing vehicles. Therefore the caravan brakes are applied and that has the effect of slowing the caravan slightly. That. backwards  “pull” on the tow hitch pulls the caravan and towing vehicle back into a straight line and cancels out the snaking action because the caravan brakes are attempting to stop both vehicles so pull everything back into line.

 

Mind you I would imagine it’s VERY difficult, in that situation, to resist the temptation to hammer the brakes on even if it IS the worst thing to do.

 

Andy 

 

Judging by your reply I get the impression that you have never been involved a  serious case of instability. I have had my caravan swaying to the extent that it eventually took up two full lane widths of the motorway. Only by determined braking was I able to regain full control. Without ATC, the only way to get the brakes on the caravan to act is to apply the brakes on the car, thus activating the overrun.

Above all, it is important to slow down to below the threshold speed below which the caravan will recover from instability of its own accord, without the need for outside intervention.

 

Edited by Lutz
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I have had a bit of a snake on a few weeks ago, but the ATC reacted very quickly and gathered everything up very efficiently and quickly. I have no idea what induced  it, straight road, constant speed, no obvious external forces applied.

 

I have never experienced a non ATC  equipped snake (and really have no desire to do so) 

 

I am not doubting what you have said or the fact that you managed to get it all gathered up again. 

 

However............

 

The ONLY way the caravan brakes can be activated on a non ATC equipped caravan is by it over-running the towing vehicle when the towing vehicles brakes are applied. So, the laws of physics dictate that in such a situation the caravan CANNOT pull the combined rig straight because the caravan must always be pushing against the towhitch for its brakes to operate.  So, if the two, are “out of line” and the driver brakes the car will slow, the caravan will push against the tow hitch and the weight will probably push the back of the car further sideways BEFORE the caravan brakes have any effect. 

 

So logically,  enthusiastic  braking a non ATC rig, IF a snake happens is possibly going to be “exciting’ 

 

Andy

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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I must admit I was quaking at the knees after the incident, but braking worked for me. Of course, it was a non-ATC equipped rig. I also admit that the snake was my own doing in the first place. I accelerated to get past a car that was about to enter the motorway. As he accelerated at the same time too, I suddenly found myself going much too fast (about 80mph) before aborting the overtaking manoeuvre, and then it happened.

Edited by Lutz
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I am happy to admit that I also had a HUGE surge of Adrenalin when my (certainly less scary than your) incident happened. I didn’t even move out of my lane.

 

Once I became aware of ATC I vowed never to have a caravan that didn’t have it, pretty glad of that decision now. 

 

The important thing is that you are here to recount the experience! 

 

Now transpose that scenario onto a much busier motorway with all the lanes occupied rather than being empty as they were for you. One multi vehicle pile up? 

 

Andy

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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23 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

I am happy to admit that I also had a HUGE surge of Adrenalin when my (certainly less scary than your) incident happened. I didn’t even move out of my lane.

 

Once I became aware of ATC I vowed never to have a caravan that didn’t have it, pretty glad of that decision now. 

 

The important thing is that you are here to recount the experience! 

 

Now transpose that scenario onto a much busier motorway with all the lanes occupied rather than being empty as they were for you. One multi vehicle pile up? 

 

Andy

 

Actually, the motorway was quite busy when it happened, but as soon as the other road users behind me saw what was going on with my caravan they also slowed down really sharpish and by the time everything was back to normal, they were hardly to be seen in my rear view mirror. :D

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40 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

Once I became aware of   ATC  I vowed never to have a caravan that didn’t have it, pretty glad of that decision now. 

 

 

I am definitely with you on that one.

 

It only needs something as simple as  the side kick of the van to snatch in and out of those HGV made furrows, at just the right speed, for everything to set off going to pieces.

 

 

Edited by JTQ
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I had a full on snake like that video many years ago on the A1 up north,  before stabilisers became mainstream. (Going too fast, downhill, overtaking a lorry and gusty side wind...perfect storm). The caravan was lifting the back wheels of my Volvo 2 series off the road, so the tyre noise sounded like an aircraft was landing behind me.

 

As we danced back and fro across two lanes, all I could see was the steering wheel oscillating rapidly side to side  ....so I let go of it and every time the word ‘Volvo’ was horizontal I dabbed the brakes. The speed and oscillations quickly died down enough for me to drop a gear, grab the wheel and put my foot down  (just a tad) as we were heading for a bridge support. There was a bang from the hitch as the rig pulled in line. Came to a stop on hardshoulder and the only thing shaken up (apart from me and the wife) was the porta potti. (Freestanding/flying model) Nice. :blink:

 

It was all over in seconds but it seemed like minutes.  I was young and quick thinking back then ....not sure I would have that presence of mind or reactions these days. So I’ve learnt never to overtake downhill, to be aware of wind conditions and keep the speed down.  It’s more restful and economic that way.

 

 

Edited by ericfield
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On 09/08/2019 at 11:53, GaryB1969 said:

It certainly shows how little time there is between "the caravan is starting to move around" and "ouch".

 

 

I can agree from experience that it only takes a few seconds from feeling a snake to out of control . Trying to correct the steering I found only makes it worse as your trying to steer into the actions of the car . I was only doing 55 mph on a motorway as a lorry passed and in a second the rear of the car was thrown around a foot in the air 

 

 

You usually only have one serious snake then you drive at a speed you can control a snake if it starts .

Edited by CommanderDave

Jeep Commander 3. 0 V6 CRD

Isuzu D- Max Utah Auto

Elddis Crusader Storm 2000 Kgs, Unipart Royal Atlas Mover .

 

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On 09/08/2019 at 12:55, Lutz said:

No sign of brake lights. Why the driver didn't abort the overtaking manoeuvre as soon as he noticed that the caravan was starting to get twitchy is a mystery to me. After all, it was already swaying as it came into the picture. A further full 8 seconds go by before it actually rolls. Plenty of time to take evasive action.

When I had a severe snake I certainly did not brake. I was travelling at 55mph  into a right hand bend on a two lane dual carriageway with my wife and two children on board. There was an access road to a farmhouse on my left. The verge was very wide and had good visibility. For some reason the driver pulled out in front of me. As I started to brake the driver realised their error and instead of accelerating hard they panicked and hit the brakes hard.  I had no room to brake and swung out hard to the right and hard back to the left to stay in the offside lane and avoid the crash barrier.  The resulting snake was far from fun. I kept my fut off the brakes and held the steering wheel lightly between fingers and thumbs and let the engine braking do the rest. An HGV that had also pulled out behind me followed straddling both lanes as I let the snake run out. I was glad that I had two lanes to play with :)

 

That was before stabilisers were as widely used .......... my next caravaning purchase!

Alan

 

2005 Nissan X-trail 4WD diesel and Swift Charisma 540 2012 Lunar Clubman ES  2018 Lunar Clubman ES

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