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Paul Hillman

Spare wheel

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Hi looking for some information is it possible to fit a spare wheel carrier underneath on an Elddis Avente 860 twin axle will free up space in the front locker look forward to your replies 

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Has your Elddis got an Al-Ko chassis? if so, then you can certainly fit one. be careful that it will not interfere with any motor mover fitted behind the wheel. You will probably pick one up for a song as a lot of people have dumped them.  It  can be difficult to fit and remove the spare if the sliding mechanism jams up. later versions have plastic bushes in them which are a bit better. I will post a sketch of the modifications I have done to improve mine if you wish.

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Thanks look forward to your sketch 

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I would have thought the 860 came standard with the spare wheel carrier?

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I f you search the forum for topics about the ALKO spare wheel holder you may well change your mind and store the spare under the bed!

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10 hours ago, Paul Hillman said:

Thanks look forward to your sketch 

This is a modification which means you can get the spare wheel carrier out and back in, even when the damn thing will not telescope in/out properly. I did it originally so that I could get the spare out from the right side when on the continent.

ALKO SPARE WHEEL CARRIER MODIFICATION.doc

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Admittedly only a single axle but our Avante 550 came with the spare wheel carrier as a standard fit.

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23 hours ago, Ern said:

Has your Elddis got an Al-Ko chassis? if so, then you can certainly fit one. be careful that it will not interfere with any motor mover fitted behind the wheel. You will probably pick one up for a song as a lot of people have dumped them.  It  can be difficult to fit and remove the spare if the sliding mechanism jams up. later versions have plastic bushes in them which are a bit better. I will post a sketch of the modifications I have done to improve mine if you wish.

 

Just don't get one! I recently tossed mine into a scrap bin and I would not have had the conscience to sell it to anyone else.  Plastic bushes or not, I found the wheel is a pig to remove from the carrier (and I found impossible to replace) unless I removed the entire carrier and dragged it all out - took me an hour working on both sides of the caravan, on my driveway and with every possible tool at hand. 

 

Bear in mind that if the puncture is nearside you will need to jack up the van just to slide the carrier out, and then you need to put your arms between the chassis and the carrier to undo the wheel retaining nut - dangerous without proper axle stand, which you will probably not have out on the road, because if the jack failed your arm would be crushed. Should be banned IMHO.

 

They also damage te tyre according to this guy :-

 

 

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5 hours ago, Bolingbroke said:

 

Just don't get one! I recently tossed mine into a scrap bin and I would not have had the conscience to sell it to anyone else.  Plastic bushes or not, I found the wheel is a pig to remove from the carrier (and I found impossible to replace) unless I removed the entire carrier and dragged it all out - took me an hour working on both sides of the caravan, on my driveway and with every possible tool at hand. 

 

Bear in mind that if the puncture is nearside you will need to jack up the van just to slide the carrier out, and then you need to put your arms between the chassis and the carrier to undo the wheel retaining nut - dangerous without proper axle stand, which you will probably not have out on the road, because if the jack failed your arm would be crushed. Should be banned IMHO.

 

 

 

Here we go. "Should be banned IMHO" Ban it because you don't like it? :rolleyes:

Put things into context:

Assuming you want to be able to deal with the replacement yourself and are not a "I phone the AA and let them do it" person:

If you have a puncture the caravan must be jacked up sufficient for the punctured wheel to be removed from the hub, and the spare to be refitted. A jack and leveling blocks should be carried with means to achieve this.  Most caravanners carry leveling blocks or ramps.

As the puncture may be on the left or Right side, and as passing traffic may be either side if travelling on the continent, it is best for the spare to be removed from whichever side is safest. That is the purpose of my modification.

The carrier is useable if it is kept in good condition. I have added pads to the tubes on mine so that fretting doesn't mark the tyre.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Bolingbroke said:

 

Just don't get one! I recently tossed mine into a scrap bin and I would not have had the conscience to sell it to anyone else.  Plastic bushes or not, I found the wheel is a pig to remove from the carrier (and I found impossible to replace) unless I removed the entire carrier and dragged it all out - took me an hour working on both sides of the caravan, on my driveway and with every possible tool at hand. 

 

Bear in mind that if the puncture is nearside you will need to jack up the van just to slide the carrier out, and then you need to put your arms between the chassis and the carrier to undo the wheel retaining nut - dangerous without proper axle stand, which you will probably not have out on the road, because if the jack failed your arm would be crushed. Should be banned IMHO.

 

They also damage te tyre according to this guy :-

 

 

I would go for, once jacked up, remove near side wheel  and place it under chassis in an appropriate position. In the even of jack collapsing the caravan will come down onto the wheel.

 

macafee2

Edited by macafee2

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ern said:

"Should be banned IMHO" Ban it because you don't like it? :rolleyes:

...

If you have a puncture the caravan must be jacked up sufficient for the punctured wheel to be removed from the hub, and the spare to be refitted. A jack and leveling blocks should be carried with means to achieve this.  Most caravanners carry leveling blocks or ramps.

As the puncture may be on the left or Right side, and as passing traffic may be either side if travelling on the continent, it is best for the spare to be removed from whichever side is safest. That is the purpose of my modification.

 

The design of the carrier on my caravan should be banned because it is dangerous, not just because I don't like it. There are plenty of precedents for banning dangerous consumer items by means of recalls etc, trouble is that it usually takes a tragedy before action is taken.

 

Look at around 6:55 to 7:10 in the video I linked to, which has the same design as mine and creates the same problems.  To get the tyre out the guy needs to put his arms under the caravan to a position where they would be crushed if you were relying solely on a jack and it failed at that moment; and this guy is clearly a careful and thoughtful type and not being gung-ho. A jack is not sufficiently safe to rely on, especially at a roadside where the ground itself might not be reliable, and as for levelling ramps etc remember that you could be starting from a deflated N/S tyre so you would need some very tall ramps.

 

I don't know what your modification consists of and I was not refering to it; I'm sure it's fine.

 

Edited by Bolingbroke
Clarity

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The guy made an absolute meal of getting the spare out. He should have jacked the caravan up a bit before withdrawing the carrier, as it comes out ok then. He also made a meal of the witness marks on the tyre. Its a poor job that the tyre is marked at all, but I fitted some simple pads to mine and that's it. I noticed the actual wheel on his caravan was rotten with rust and that is a much bigger safety issue. After his modification which was not very good, he re-fitted the spare wheel with the Nyloc nuts insufficiently on the threaded studs to engage nylon, so they will very like come loose before long especially when the spacer (a plastic water container cap) collapses a bit. He is clearly trying to make a business out of a youtube project and hadn't got a clue what he was doing.

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If you maintain the carrier by greasing the moving parts and jack the van up sufficiently to withdraw the carrier before attempting to remove the spare then they are fit for purpose and easy to use

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9 minutes ago, Richard080561 said:

If you maintain the carrier by greasing the moving parts and jack the van up sufficiently to withdraw the carrier before attempting to remove the spare then they are fit for purpose and easy to use

 

OK....so how many can even get under the 'van to do this..I can't!

Mayday callout a couple of years back,following lost wheel....the engineer managed mine off in about 5 minutes but admitted some had never been taken off since new and might take 20 minutes or more....even using jacks.

geoff

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9 minutes ago, shipbroker said:

 

OK....so how many can even get under the 'van to do this..I can't!

Mayday callout a couple of years back,following lost wheel....the engineer managed mine off in about 5 minutes but admitted some had never been taken off since new and might take 20 minutes or more....even using jacks.

geoff

You don't need to get under the van to do it.  Jack the van up, withdraw the carrier, smother with coppaslip, reinsert.  Repeat annually. 

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28 minutes ago, Richard080561 said:

Jack the van up,

 

How many people have one?

 

geiff

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47 minutes ago, shipbroker said:

 

OK....so how many can even get under the 'van to do this..I can't!

 

 

It's a routine servicing task - get a professional to do the servicing if you're no longer up to it.

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17 minutes ago, shipbroker said:

 

How many people have one?

 

geiff

All the people who want to change the wheel after a puncture

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I have an Alko jack plus a 2 ton electric scissor jack for the car.  However I have no intention off using either should I be unfortunate to have a puncture on a motorway.

John

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Just now, johntog said:

I have an Alko jack plus a 2 ton electric scissor jack for the car.  However I have no intention off using either should I be unfortunate to have a puncture on a motorway.

John

Why have you got it then?

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20 minutes ago, Richard080561 said:

All the people who want to change the wheel after a puncture

Mayday is my God...

 

Geoff

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1 minute ago, Richard080561 said:

Why have you got it then?

Because I don't always drive on motorways and punctures can happen anywhere. Changing a wheel on the hard shoulder of a motorway can be pretty dangerous . Quite a few motorways now have no hard shoulder but have emergency bays at intervals. If I could struggle to get to one of those I suspect it may be safer to do it myself. I do have an aftermarket TPMS system on both the car and caravan, plus the van has got tyron bands fitted. A slowish puncture may enable me to get to either a service area or an emergency bay but I wouldn't take the risk of doing it on the hard shoulder. I've heard too many stories of people being killed or injured to take a chance. In those circumstances I'd leave it to a professional. The police advice is to not attempt to do a repair yourself on a motorway for good reason.

John

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On 18/07/2019 at 09:03, Paul Hillman said:

Hi looking for some information is it possible to fit a spare wheel carrier underneath on an Elddis Avente 860 twin axle will free up space in the front locker look forward to your replies 

I wish I could fit our spare wheel in the front locker, we could on our first caravan but not our 2011 Elddis Avante 515. Instead it has the carrier underneath but when we got the caravan I removed and refit the spare to try it and found it not easy and would not like to do this on the side of a road. Also it leaves the wheel prone to theft but it could be chained/locked. So whilst in storage the wheel is kept out of sight in the bathroom and when towing it goes on the floor at the front to help get the nose weight high enough. Once on site it goes in the car boot.

 

As johntog says, I would not like to change a wheel on a motorway, instead would call Mayday (green flag) and they can park their high visibility van with its flashing lights to give some protection against passing vehicles. Elsewhere wheel changing may be safe enough to do myself. As an aside, I keep a high vis vest in the car door pocket if I have to get out on the hard shoulder, only had to do it once when somebody hit us on the M60. Even then, I felt very uncomfortable with all the vehicles passing at 70 mph.

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7 hours ago, Bolingbroke said:

 

The design of the carrier on my caravan should be banned because it is dangerous, not just because I don't like it. There are plenty of precedents for banning dangerous consumer items by means of recalls etc, trouble is that it usually takes a tragedy before action is taken.

 

Look at around 6:55 to 7:10 in the video I linked to, which has the same design as mine and creates the same problems.  To get the tyre out the guy needs to put his arms under the caravan to a position where they would be crushed if you were relying solely on a jack and it failed at that moment; and this guy is clearly a careful and thoughtful type and not being gung-ho. A jack is not sufficiently safe to rely on, especially at a roadside where the ground itself might not be reliable, and as for levelling ramps etc remember that you could be starting from a deflated N/S tyre so you would need some very tall ramps.

 

I don't know what your modification consists of and I was not refering to it; I'm sure it's fine.

 

caravan or car, don't go under it when there is only a jack holding it up. Put a wheel under the chassis to take the weight should the jack collapse.. Working on the carrier under the caravan becomes dangerous if one wheel is off the ground and the caravan is not properly supported.  You could even wind the legs down.

 

what do you suggest for supporting the caravan at the road side if not a jack? I wonder how many carry axle stands.

 

macafee2

 

 

1 hour ago, johntog said:

Because I don't always drive on motorways and punctures can happen anywhere. Changing a wheel on the hard shoulder of a motorway can be pretty dangerous . Quite a few motorways now have no hard shoulder but have emergency bays at intervals. If I could struggle to get to one of those I suspect it may be safer to do it myself. I do have an aftermarket TPMS system on both the car and caravan, plus the van has got tyron bands fitted. A slowish puncture may enable me to get to either a service area or an emergency bay but I wouldn't take the risk of doing it on the hard shoulder. I've heard too many stories of people being killed or injured to take a chance. In those circumstances I'd leave it to a professional. The police advice is to not attempt to do a repair yourself on a motorway for good reason.

John

professionals too have been killed.

 

macafee2

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40 minutes ago, macafee2 said:

 

 

 

professionals too have been killed.

 

macafee2

Indeed, attempting to work on a car or caravan on the hard shoulder is very hazardous.

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