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dgc188

Kitchen Mixer Tap Leaking

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I've read many items relating to mixer taps leaking but none seem to fit my problem. Which is....

 

This mixer tap - I think is the Carafax L180 (Bailey Ranger Series 5 460/4) - leaks from around the lower central part that swivels (the part with the output spout on).

 

I've taken it apart as much as I can, removed the cartridge, removed and cleaned the rubber insert and cleaned the brass part it fits on to. Put it all back together, tightened the main brass nut and yet it still leaks - not a lot, but enough to be a problem.

 

Could it be that the cartridge is at fault, i.e. would the rubber insert being compressed over the past 12 years, be the cause of this leak?

 

Or is it a case of having to replace the tap as a complete unit? If so, how on earth do I get to the fixing nut that holds the tap in place?

 

I've gone in from the (outside) upper fridge vent and seen where the hot/cold pipes feed onto the tap tails (so they're not an issue to undo); the sink that would give fairly easy access) appears to be fairly rigidly fixed in place by the solvent welded waste pipework. I could remove the waste central screw but it all looks to be pretty solidly gunked up with Plumber's Mate or something similar and I don't really want to disturb this and cause further issues when all put back together. Again, from the outside vent, I can see a metal plate through which the pipes feed through - can this be easily removed (I can see one screw and feel two/three others) - would this be the way in to the base of the tap?

 

Any thoughts, hints or tips would be gratefully received to remedy this problem. Many thanks in advance.

Dave

 

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Ok, my experience is based on domestic ceramic taps...  If you have hard water, typical cartridge taps and mixers need "servicing" once a year.  This means applying a smear of silicon grease onto the O-rings, and when you get to replace the cartridges at 5-6 years replace all O-rings including the one on the swivel spout...

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After 12years isn't the "rubber insert" likely to be perishing a little, possibly worn or, as you say, perhaps losing its elasticity after being compressed for 12years. Have you tried to replace it (from say Plumbase or other plumbing supply merchants)?

Seems extravagant to have to replace the whole tap. Has it always leaked or is it just recently?

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Thanks guys for the comments.

 

The tap would appear to have been leaking for some while but wasn't perhaps as noticeable as it has recently become. And you never really knew if the water was due to wet hands causing the small amount of water around the base of the tap. But, as I say, it's now been looked at more closely and there's a definite weeping from towards the base of the tap.

 

I might have suspected the rubber seal, but it looks pretty good, not perishing, not worn or distorted - and the tap in the bathroom area is just as old and doesn't leak (same type of tap). So I'm somewhat in a quandary as to which way to turn. Is it the seal; is it the cartridge, or maybe is it the entire tap that needs replacing. Had the tap itself been dripping, no issue, I would kick off with changing the cartridge. So first things first.....

 

There's now a new cartridge on order (I can't find a supply of the rubber seal to simply replace that - it's a 3-hole thing). So I'll see if that does the job. If not, I'm back to trying to figure out how to get to the base of the tap such that it could be removed and replaced.

 

 

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Have you been able to separate the spout from the body of the tap?

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These are the bits I have been able to get at - the cap, the cartridge securing bolt and the cartridge itself. I can see no way of getting any further. Trying to twist the next section down only serves to twist the entire tap. I'm sure it should come off but there's no way I can shift it.

 

To me it seems as though the water is leaking from between the cartridge and the 3-hole brass inlet pipe item which, perhaps, the rubber seal in the base of the cartridge is supposed to prevent.

 

Maybe you can advise further.

 

PS the 3-hole brass picture has been distorted by the camera(phone) - it is circular as would be expected!

 

inside tap body.jpg

Tap split.jpg

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How much are you paying for the cartridge if you don’t mind me asking. 

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Is the seal on the bottom of the cartridge square or circular in section - can you remove it?

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The cost was £10.99 for the cartridge (plus £1.00 p/p) - Prima Leisure (official Bailey stockists). Better than the £51 for a new tap (even if I could find a way of getting to its underside - and it's this that formed the basis of this query to start with - how to get to the underside of the tap to loosen the hex fixing nut).

The seal on the bottom is like 3 conjoined circular washers in a triangular shape to match up with the holes in the brass unit in the photo above. As I said the photo is distorted and the shape of the base is fully circular. The two indentations are the locating points for the matching stubs on the cartridge so that it can't be put in out of alignment.

Hope this answers your questions guys.

 

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Posted (edited)

I hope a new cartridge fixes it.  But there must be a seal top and bottom on the swivel spout.  It was assembled, so it must come apart!  I would try the spout at 12 o'clock, one o'clock right round the clock and see if it will pull up.  On a house kitchen tap it's often pointing directly away from the sink.  I've spent time on Google looking for an exploded diagram,with no luck.

Edited by kelper

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Thanks kelper, for the time you've spent looking into this.

 

Previous to starting/posting this thread, I've had a good ol' look around and can find nothing relating to how "this" tap breaks down. There's quite a bit of information on how other varieties split - but not this one. Annoying, but I guess that's life.

 

I can agree that the tap "should" break apart at the swivel point, but as yet, I've not been able to manage to find out how. I'll give the directions you indicate a try and see if it works next time I'm over at the storage location (possibly next week now when the cartridge arrives).

 

I'll post back what I find.

 

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You have helped me too.  I realise I need to find how to acces my tap/  The sink is over the fridge so it will be a pain!  Just in case it ever goes wrong.

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Likewise.

 

Sink over fridge (3 screws to remove, but waste pipe virtually fixed solid to the sink and to solid pvc solvent-welded pipework, so unable to lift sink out).

 

I'm not gas qualified, so removing the fridge is not do-able.

 

I would be about stuck if the tap needs to come out and be replaced as, although I can get access to the tap tails via the outside fridge vent, I can't get access to the tap fixing bolt. I can see it through a 1 inch hole above the front of the fridge (ventilation?) but no chance of getting anywhere near the bolt.

 

Hence, again, one reason why this thread got started - just in case anyone else had found a way in.

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I also have a 2006 Series 5 Bailey Ranger though my caravan is a 460/2 model.

Although I do not have a leaky tap I have often wondered how to replace a tap if it developed a fault. It seems to me that the sink has to be removed to access the underside of the tap.

Due to the waste pipe leaking into the adjacent beddding locker I discovered that the vertical pipe is only a push fit to the right angle fitting.

DSCF5331.JPG

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That fitting looks like it should have been glued!

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Thanks DeeTee for the photo.

 

I would agree with kelper that perhaps that waste joint should have been glued (looks like solvent-weld pipework rather than a simple push-fit - not that I'm a plumber). Probably why it was leaking.

 

Next time I'm up at the 'van when the tap cartridge arrives I'll check my waste pipe-work to see if it also has just been a push-fit - the whole pipe-work stuff certainly felt pretty solid when I tried to lift the sink out - not that I wanted to "push it" too far and break something!

 

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If it's meant to be push fit there will be o-rings in the elbow, or some kind of seal at least.  If it really is push fit then it should have some pipe brackets to hold it in place when the caravan is being towed.  Remember to take some pvc pipe cement with you!

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The drain from the sink on our 5 series Pageant was very similar to that illustrated and was not glued at all. It did of course part company and dripped dirty water in the cupboards - a terrible job to clean out.

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On 10/07/2019 at 17:58, dgc188 said:

I've read many items relating to mixer taps leaking but none seem to fit my problem. Which is....

 

This mixer tap - I think is the Carafax L180 (Bailey Ranger Series 5 460/4) - leaks from around the lower central part that swivels (the part with the output spout on).

 

I've taken it apart as much as I can, removed the cartridge, removed and cleaned the rubber insert and cleaned the brass part it fits on to. Put it all back together, tightened the main brass nut and yet it still leaks - not a lot, but enough to be a problem.

 

Could it be that the cartridge is at fault, i.e. would the rubber insert being compressed over the past 12 years, be the cause of this leak?

 

Or is it a case of having to replace the tap as a complete unit? If so, how on earth do I get to the fixing nut that holds the tap in place?

 

I've gone in from the (outside) upper fridge vent and seen where the hot/cold pipes feed onto the tap tails (so they're not an issue to undo); the sink that would give fairly easy access) appears to be fairly rigidly fixed in place by the solvent welded waste pipework. I could remove the waste central screw but it all looks to be pretty solidly gunked up with Plumber's Mate or something similar and I don't really want to disturb this and cause further issues when all put back together. Again, from the outside vent, I can see a metal plate through which the pipes feed through - can this be easily removed (I can see one screw and feel two/three others) - would this be the way in to the base of the tap?

 

Any thoughts, hints or tips would be gratefully received to remedy this problem. Many thanks in advance.

Dave

 

I had the same problem as you Dave. It was 2 years ago now and I solved it by replacing both my taps (Kitchen & Bathroom) I tried everything but just could not solve the problem. It's not a job I would like to repeat anytime soon. My taps were 10 years old and were both seeping around the base as yours. Have a read of my post at the time. 

Best of luck and if I can help with anything just ask.

Doosan (David)                        

 

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Thanks David for your pointer to your experiences with your mixer tap.

 

My sympathies go out to you for the struggles you appear to have had. It's making me think twice about having a go myself (if I need to replace the entire tap) and to simply leave it up to the dealer to do the job for me in a place where I can't hear him swear and cuss! Good tip on using 2 x M8 nuts to get the main bolt out; nice one.

 

The feed pipes certainly appear to be good and secure and I would expect to have a similar experience to your own in getting them off the tails; not sure about the orientation of the hex nuts - I didn't take that much notice of them and the photo I took is not clear in this respect. This tap is around 12 years old so am guessing it may come down to a complete replacement; I am certainly disappointed that these items should have a lifespan of only this length of time given the rather intermittent use our caravan gets - it's not like a house mixer tap in use almost every day.

 

As a matter of interest, how did you manage to remove the sink? By the central waste screw or splitting the waste pipework further down? This relating to a couple of comments above where the pipework would appear not to have been glued/solvent welded.

 

In the meantime, I'll wait till the cartridge arrives and hope (and pray) that this works. I wasn't looking forward to replacing the tap from the start and your post has certainly not made me feel any happier about doing it!

 

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Hi, Dave, my sink had 3 screws holding it in the unit with little plastic covers over them, screwed through the upper inside of the sink.  With these taken out the sink lifted up and my corrugated drain pipe just pulled out plastic underside of the plug hole, this had a 90* lug that the corrugated pipe pushed onto. The whole job is doable but you are working in a confined space and I do have small hands and I found it quite constricting. The good thing for me was that the new taps came with longer pigtails and these went back easier than trying to use the older shorter ones. Also when you put the jubilee clips back on you can get to the screw heads easier. Hope this helps.

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Take the tap off and unscrew the bottom to allow the spout to pull off .There are two silicon seals which are available from Caravan Components web site.

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The attached photo was taken was taken in 2013 after four years of my ownership of a MY2006 Bailey when I discovered the source of the waste water leak.

The AWS techie appears to have pushed the down pipe back into right angle fitting during an annual service, in 2013, to the caravan.

I suspect that the pipework together with other Bailey series 5 models, despite obviously being designed as adhesive joints, has been used as push fit joints since original build. I believe that had the joints been sealed with the correct adhesive from the outset it may have been almost impossible to remove the sink.

I have also concluded, from recent waste pipe leaks, that the leaks only occur when the Aquaroll is being emptied by pumping the contents into the Wastemaster when striking camp. In future I will make frequent checks on the joint and drain the Aquaroll via the Washroom tap and waste water pipe.

 

DSCF5335.JPG

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Seems like this thread is opening up a right can of worms! Thanks to all that have responded. And there was me thinking caravanning was a "leisure" pastime and not, at times, darned hard, frustrating work! :rolleyes:

 

2 hours ago, ScoobyWRX said:

Have you read this one? about the ring seals between the main brass body and swivelling spout?

https://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/131118-leaking-kitchen-tap/

 

 

Thanks to ScoobyWRX for the link pointing to your earlier thread on the subject, and to birdman101 for the link to Caravan Components. Interesting to note that these people are part of Carafax (the tap manufacturer). My concern with the Caravan Components silicon rings is that the tap might appear to be a different type to the L180 (due to what might appear to be the different hole sizes in the base as compared to those at the top of the brass unit) - or maybe I'm kidding myself here as I've not been able to get the top of the body off to allow me access to the brass part.

 

I've contacted both Carafax themselves and Caravan Components individually for advice whether the silicon sealing washers are specifically for the L180 or WHY. I am awaiting some response from either location.

 

 

In the meantime, I'm still awaiting the post (the cartridge) and once that arrives I shall have another crack at getting the body to part if it should fail to cure the leak, as I fear is most likely.

 

And from what I could see, the sink removal process (which is simple enough to do) would appear to have solid pvc pipe from the waste hole right through to exit. But I think this is going to have to be the way to go and break the under-sink waste seal gunk and then to watch for leaks once this goes back again (with liberal amounts of Plumber's Mait) - this if I should have the need to replace the whole tap. At the same time, I shall check the validity of the pipework sealings at the various joints - whether they are they simply push-fitted (as might be the case as reported by many above) or properly sealed.

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