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chris76

weight help please

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hi can anyone help me with planning my weight on my 2018 cruiser please, off to france in a couple of weeks and i know up to now iv been using it overloaded,both on the nose and payload

 

the caravan is weighted at 2000kg 

 

it has one gas bottle which im going to remove and put in the back of the amarok to help with the noseweight

im going to remove the carpets

 

it has aircon which is 33kg 

 

any idea what my payload will be?

 

 

 

The Club advises that a Volkswagen Amarok 2.0 BITDI 180PS 4M BM Perm Highline Auto (2015) can, with warnings, tow a Buccaneer Cruiser Cruiser Wt upgrade (2018)

 Kerbweight ratio: 96%

The caravan's laden weight is close to the car's kerb weight, increasing the risk of stability concerns. This outfit should not be driven by novice towers, and does not meet Club guidelines. Note that a small increase in ratio (to perhaps 90%) is acceptable if all other criteria are passed.

 Towing limit ratio: 63%

The caravan's laden weight is within the car's stated towing limit, and therefore meets legal limitations.

 Gross train weight ratio: 81%

The sum of the car and caravan’s fully laden weights is within the car’s gross train weight. This outfit can therefore be used legally with both the car and the caravan fully laden.

 Nose weight ratio: Unknown

If car nose weight is listed as ‘unknown’, then check with the retailer, maker or in the handbook that the car’s nose weight is sufficient. If a nose weight figure is listed, it may be hard to load the caravan (especially a twin axle) to give acceptable car and adequate caravan nose weight. Aim for 5-7% of the caravan’s actual laden weight without overloading the car or the caravan’s front axle/tyres.

 BHP per ton : 41

The car’s engine power should be fine to safely tow this caravan.

B+E Licence required

The maximum combined weight of this car and caravan car gross vehicle weight + caravan MTPLM) are over 3500kg, which means you need to have a category B+E driving licence. If you obtained your standard car driving licence before 1st January 1997, you already have this – if not you will need to take a B+E test to legally drive this outfit.

Where to buy a caravan

Volkswagen Amarok 2.0 BITDI 180PS 4M BM Perm Highline Auto (2015)

MakeVolkswagen

Range2.0 BITDI 180PS 4M BM Perm Highline Auto

ModelAmarok

Year2015

Fuel typeDiesel

Transmission typeAutomatic

Body typePick-up

Kerb weight2093.00kg

Towing limit3200.00kg

Gross vehicle weight3170.00kg

Gross train weight6370.00kg

Nose weightUnknown

BHP180

RPM for maximum BHP4000.00

Maximum torque420.00

RPM for maximum torque1750.00

Buccaneer Cruiser Cruiser Wt upgrade (2018)

MakeBuccaneer

RangeCruiser

ModelCruiser Wt upgrade

Year2018

TypeCaravan

Berths4

Number of axles2

MTPLM2000kg

MIRO1766kg

User payload234kg

Hitch limitUnknown

Shipping length8.16m

Overall width2.45m

Overall height2.63m

Body Length6.98m

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, chris76 said:

hi can anyone help me with planning my weight on my 2018 cruiser please, off to france in a couple of weeks and i know up to now iv been using it overloaded,both on the nose and payload

 

the caravan is weighted at 2000kg 

 

it has one gas bottle which im going to remove and put in the back of the amarok to help with the noseweight

im going to remove the carpets

 

it has aircon which is 33kg 

 

any idea what my payload will be?

 

 

If you want to know what the payload may be there is no accurate way of determining it without putting the caravan on a weighbridge. Nobody here is going to be able to give you a definitive answer.

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The 'allocated Payload' that the manufacturer gave the van is the standard spec and it's possible that may have been upgraded. Check the van's weight plate. However I doubt that many vans actually weigh theirf MIRO weight when they're delivered due to manufacturing tolerances, so it's unlikely that anyone truly has the allocated payload available.

 

The  'available payload' will be MTPLM  minus actual MIRO. If you remove any standard item that's supplied with the van (like carpet) the available payload will be increased and conversely adding any extras (like battery, mover, aircon) will reduce the available payload. 

 

Noseweight counts as part of MIRO and MTPLM but obviously reduces the weight on the axle(s).

 

You can build a spreadsheet to calculate the theoretical weights, weighing everything you load on board, but if the MIRO you start off with is wrong, then even the most accurate weighing of what you have loaded will end up with an incorrect gross weight figure.

 

Probably the best policy is to weigh the van with a noted loading and then work out the weight of whatever you add or subtract for actual use. Oh! and leave a 5% margin for little stuff that you forget to log.

 

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It says Iv got a user payload of 234 but I’m not sure if that includes the battery and what I can gain from taking the carpets and gas bottle out

 

then how much to allow generally

for crockery and clothes etc

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Following that last post I've just realised one of the benefits of buying a German van compared to a UK model. The German usually has a long list of cost options that can be added to the van, including such stuff as carpets, spare wheel and carrier, three burner hob instead of two burner, boiler and hot water system etc, etc. The beauty of the cost options list is that it also features the weight of each option, which, in turn, means you know how much you save if you remove the carpet, or other such items.

1 minute ago, chris76 said:

It says Iv got a user payload of 234 but I’m not sure if that includes the battery and what I can gain from taking the carpets and gas bottle out

 

then how much to allow generally

for crockery and clothes etc

 

If your van is one of the Buccaneer's with self levelling gear, then I believe the battery is included in MIRO, as it comes fitted from the factory. If it doesn't have self levelling, then any battery is fitted by the selling dealer and, like all other vans, it won't be included in MIRO.

 

All the other stuff you mention is totally individual and can only be ascertained by actual weighing.

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I think battery is included in Miro as the caravan has auto levelling but all movers and air con will need subtracting off payload .

 

 

 

Dave

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Published MIRO's are for guidance only. One cannot rely on them even if they are shown on a label by the door, especially if there is any doubt whether something is included or not, so the only sure way to ascertain the unladen weight is to weigh the caravan.

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Get it weighed with whatever is in it.

 

That will become your reference point to either add to or subtract from it.

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The maximum nose weight for the Buccaneer is 150kg.  We find that the ideal nose weight for our vehicle is 140kg however our vehicle as air suspension so it will differ with other vehicles.  It is recommended by some manufacturers that the nose weight should be approximately 7% of the MTPLM.

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47 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

The maximum nose weight for the Buccaneer is 150kg.  We find that the ideal nose weight for our vehicle is 140kg however our vehicle as air suspension so it will differ with other vehicles.  It is recommended by some manufacturers that the nose weight should be approximately 7% of the MTPLM.

 

 

Isn't that 4-7%? 

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21 minutes ago, Guzzilazz said:

 

 

Isn't that 4-7%? 

 

It's only a recommendation anyway. The 4% is the minimum that the manufacturer must ensure as structurally safe, not what the noseweight must actually be.

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A carpet will hardly weigh anything but if you check the MIRO definition in your handbook it might include water in the cistern and water heater, possibly about 14 kg so make sure these are empty before setting off. A battery will weigh about 20 kg and is usually part of the payload.

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4 hours ago, Paul1957 said:

A carpet will hardly weigh anything but if you check the MIRO definition in your handbook it might include water in the cistern and water heater, possibly about 14 kg so make sure these are empty before setting off. A battery will weigh about 20 kg and is usually part of the payload.

Battery is in the miro,so is the fluids for heating,but not fresh water.Also no cistern on a buccaaneers 2018,hitch is max 150kg and a cruiser empty has a nose of 117kg.Carpets weight is 17kg and that is also in the miro. what is also include in the miro is 2 x 20kg gas bottles that 2 x 6kg propanes bottles approx.but not incl the nose weight of 117kg.

What some people fail to appreciate is adding a front towing cover.This can have different affect as to the handling .When using a cover i found it adds drag and force the the nose ..I.E if i have the nose at 110kg with a cover it tows better than 120kg without the cover So how much extraa force is applied?

Secondly our towball is 415mm off the floor on our volvo and the car and van are raleativly parallel to the floor yet our navara ball is 370mm and gives a impression of a nose down attitude  and i find this uncomfortable and twitchy

So there are many factors that can affect the handling but my advise is never go to the max on the loading..

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Cripes, I would never have left the house if I had to compute all these permutations.

Seems the days of 'will my car pull it'? Have long gone.

Geoff

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35 minutes ago, smino0_1 said:

what is also include in the miro is 2 x 20kg gas bottles that 2 x 6kg propanes bottles approx.

Does that mean I can add 40kg back to my payload then, if my one bottle travels in the pick up?

 

Just measured my tow ball and it’s 450 to the centre

 

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Elddis must use a different definition of MIRO for their different caravans. The handbook for our 2011 Avante gives:

------------------------------

MIRO - weight of the caravan equipped to the manufacturer's standard specification. Therefore the condition in which it leaves the factory.

In the Technical Specifications it gives - The mass in running order includes a manufacturing tolerance for material variances and 28 kgs for 2 x 5kg BP gas light bottles and 10 litres of water in the water heater and 2 litres of water in the toilet.

--------------------------------

Since the battery is not supplied with our caravan and in the handbook it says a leisure battery can be fitted, then it is not included in the MIRO. Since we do not travel with water in the caravan or gas bottles in the locker, the 28 kg allowed for these are offset by the battery. The carpets supplied with our caravan are loose fit mats and they do not weigh much.

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17kg sounds about right for carpets in a van the size of a Buccaneer, IIRC carpets as a cost option in an Eriba Troll weigh about 12kg.

 

What's included in a MIRO weight is legally defined but, as ever, UK caravan marketing departments are always looking to reduce published weights. The regs say that MIRO must include provision for gas but doesn't stipulate a nominal weight. So manufacturer's have gradually included less and less gas allowance in their quoted figures. Most no longer include a weight that equates to full cylinders, so when the cylinders are full you will be using some payload.

 

As far as I understand MIRO doesn't include an allowance for manufacturing tolerances, but manufacturer's usually cover themselves by including a footnote that weights can vary by x %.

 

Empty noseweight aren't published much these days because in reality they vary so much, even between identical vans off the same line. In  addition, as soon as you load anything at all the noseweight changes, especially on single axle vans. Vans rarely leave dealerships in MIRO state as they can have batteries, movers and gas cylinders fitted as a bare  minimum on colliection. One has to assume that empty noseweight is measured with carpet on the floor but on collection it may be bundled in a locker somewhere and depending on position in the van, that could immediately alter the empty noseweight.

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Because MIRO for caravans is so very loosely defined and in any case the definition is only an industry standard and not enshrined in Construction and Use Regulations, it makes little sense to take any published figure too seriously, but to always rely on weighbridge measurement.

 

Just a note on the side to highlight the folly of using published figures:

Measurements have shown that MIRO of a caravan can vary by as much as 15kg between a dry and a wet day, simply because of moisture absorption in the insulation. This has nothing to do with damp.

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On 08/07/2019 at 06:24, Lutz said:

 

If you want to know what the payload may be there is no accurate way of determining it without putting the caravan on a weighbridge. Nobody here is going to be able to give you a definitive answer.

 

 

23 hours ago, Lutz said:

..............................    so the only sure way to ascertain the unladen weight is to weigh the caravan.

 

 

 

23 hours ago, Griff said:

Get it weighed with whatever is in it.

 

That will become your reference point to either add to or subtract from it.

 

Words of wisdom. To find weighbridges in your area go to HERE and look at WEIGHT

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12 hours ago, smino0_1 said:

Battery is in the miro,so is the fluids for heating,but not fresh water.Also no cistern on a buccaaneers 2018,hitch is max 150kg and a cruiser empty has a nose of 117kg.Carpets weight is 17kg and that is also in the miro. what is also include in the miro is 2 x 20kg gas bottles that 2 x 6kg propanes bottles approx.but not incl the nose weight of 117kg.

 

According to the 2018 Buccaneer handbook page 2-3 it is a mass of 10kg per gas cylinder.  The cylinder number is equal to the number of connections and there are two connections to total mass of gas cylinders is 20kg.  The wastemaster is also included in the MIRO along with the EHU cable.

 

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16 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

According to the 2018 Buccaneer handbook page 2-3 it is a mass of 10kg per gas cylinder.  The cylinder number is equal to the number of connections and there are two connections to total mass of gas cylinders is 20kg.  The wastemaster is also included in the MIRO along with the EHU cable.

 

 

It's still nothing to go by as each manufacturer has a degree of freedom in interpretation of what is and what is not included in the MIRO.

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14 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

It's still nothing to go by as each manufacturer has a degree of freedom in interpretation of what is and what is not included in the MIRO.

I have been told that the MIRO is as it is delivered from the factory according to an EU regulation.  Caravans with onboard tanks have waste containers i.e. wastemaster included.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Durbanite said:

I have been told that the MIRO is as it is delivered from the factory according to an EU regulation.  Caravans with onboard tanks have waste containers i.e. wastemaster included.

 

The EU regulation that you refer to is relatively vague with respect to caravans. It only refers to an industry standard BS EN 1645-2 which in many respects is equally vague. For instance, the regulation states that MIRO is for a base model without any factory fitted options. What constitutes a factory fitted option is already open to question. Sometimes items are declared as factory fitted options even though no caravan normally leaves the production line without them.

Edited by Lutz

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Gas is 10 kg in Miro as there is one cylinder outlet .

 

 

 

 

Dave

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1 hour ago, CommanderDave said:

Gas is 10 kg in Miro as there is one cylinder outlet .

 

 

 

 

Dave

 

Only if the caravan was submitted with a 10kg gas bottle at the time of type approval.

 

10kg bottles don't exist on the Continent, so Continental caravans would have a different allowance for gas than their UK counterparts.

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