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Adbat123

Hobby 645 vip, legal to tow in UK?

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Hi, 1st post and apologies if its been asked 100's of times before. 

Google is very vague on the subject so what better place to ask!

Im looking to buy a 2012 645VIP, however I'm informed that I may not be able to legally tow it with my Nissan Navara due to the body length of the caravan. 

It gets confusing there weather its the internal length minus the gas locker(which apparently is under 7 metres) of the external body length(over 7 meters long so illegal to tow). 

Anyone have a definitive answer on the subject?

Dkes my tow vehicle need to be legally above 3500kg to tow this type of van? 

Gutted if it does because they are stunning. 

Thanks in advance. 

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Posted (edited)

The overall external length, not including the A frame, is the measurement. If it exceeds 7 metres the tow vehicle must have a MAM exceeding 3500kg.

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/weight-and-width-limits

Edited by Legal Eagle

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I've read that. But then I see the gas locker isn't included in the body length.? 

So where the hell do I measure from and to?

Seems a very grey area with hobby vans 😕

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The linked guidance page doesn't mention a gas locker, only that the A frame isn't included in the 7 metres.  I suspect the gas locker issue is a left over from the days when a lot of vans had a separate locker tacked on the front of the van. That's v v rare now and gas lockers are built into the main structure and can't be separated. So as Legal says it's the front to back exterior length of the van body that counts. The 645 comes up regularly on CT and the overall balance of opinion is that it mustn't be towed by a normal car/pick up.

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6 hours ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

The linked guidance page doesn't mention a gas locker, only that the A frame isn't included in the 7 metres.  I suspect the gas locker issue is a left over from the days when a lot of vans had a separate locker tacked on the front of the van. That's v v rare now and gas lockers are built into the main structure and can't be separated. So as Legal says it's the front to back exterior length of the van body that counts. The 645 comes up regularly on CT and the overall balance of opinion is that it mustn't be towed by a normal car/pick up.

The body length includes any fixed and/or permanently mounted equipment. A fixed A frame mounted cycle carrier for example has to be included in the body length. Fixed means something not normally removable that requires tools to remove it.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Towtug said:

The body length includes any fixed and/or permanently mounted equipment

That's news to me, I was of the opinion.......................imagine taking the caravan off the chassis frame, measure it front to rear and that cannot exceed 7m.

If that's true with cycle carriers mounted on the 'A' Frame it means I'm illegal when I visit the UK, nobody has ever checked/mentioned it at the Ports.

Edited by Borussia 1900

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The whole situation does seem a bit ridiculous.

 

Why the distinction between body length and total length at all? Is it for glider trailers?

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Since 2016 ,or earlier, special long load trailers,including motor and gliders,are exempt from 7m rule.

 

Geoff

 

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I still don't understand why only the UK has the 7m rule, so much for EU standardisation.

 

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10 hours ago, Adbat123 said:

I've read that. But then I see the gas locker isn't included in the body length.? 

So where the hell do I measure from and to?

Seems a very grey area with hobby vans 😕

Previously and still on some caravans the gas cylinders are mounted externally so if the caravan had a body length of 7m and the cylinders outside the body on the A frame then legal.  If they are stored inside the front locker the body length ends by the locker area although technically the body ends by the wall inside the locker.  I suspect that if UK caravan manufacturers were able to find a way around this they would have done so a long time ago.   However the 2012 645 VIP is a UK model so should be under 7m in body length.  There is no 645 VIP in the German market.

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14 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

However the 2012 645 VIP is a UK model so should be under 7m in body length.  There is no 645 VIP in the German market.

You are wrong on this.

Although a hobby van may be listed as a 645 UK, as an example, the UK part does not mean that it was made for the UK market, in fact none of the Hobby vans are specifically made for the UK, that marker (UK) is for the seating arrangement and nothing to do with where the van is sold.

There does not appear to be a 645 in any shape or form listed for the latest vans, but the 645 was a strong seller until around 2015 or thereabouts.

 

And it is over 7 mtrs body length , so without a 3500+ vehicle , illegal to tow in the UK.

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1 hour ago, Borussia 1900 said:

I still don't understand why only the UK has the 7m rule, so much for EU standardisation.

 

 

The ability to make our own rules does exist 👍

 

I don’t really understand the distinction either to be honest

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Somewhat off topic.....

 

Up until recently, all single decker coaches were just shy of 12 metres/40 feet. When the new range of triaxle coaches were introduced, initially at around 13.5 metres, these offered higher capacity with around 61 passengers and were manufactured (mostly) in Belgium and Holland. At the time, these couldn't be registered in the UK, but could be driven in the UK! A couple of operators registered them in Holland and used them in the UK!

 

The law since changed and this link will show the paperwork and rigmorol!

 

Back to the caravan question and my understanding is that it must be hauled by a vehicle weighing over 3500 kg.

 

Russ

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10 minutes ago, Brecon said:

You are wrong on this.

Although a hobby van may be listed as a 645 UK, as an example, the UK part does not mean that it was made for the UK market, in fact none of the Hobby vans are specifically made for the UK, that marker (UK) is for the seating arrangement and nothing to do with where the van is sold.

There does not appear to be a 645 in any shape or form listed for the latest vans, but the 645 was a strong seller until around 2015 or thereabouts.

 

And it is over 7 mtrs body length , so without a 3500+ vehicle , illegal to tow in the UK.

Very true, the is for a 'U' shaped lounge and the K is for Kinderbetten (Childrens Bunkbeds)

My caravan for example is a 2.5e, that means 2.5m wide with Einzelbetten (Single Beds). All German manufacturers use this 'code'.

 

Simples! 

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16 minutes ago, Brecon said:

You are wrong on this.

Although a hobby van may be listed as a 645 UK, as an example, the UK part does not mean that it was made for the UK market, in fact none of the Hobby vans are specifically made for the UK, that marker (UK) is for the seating arrangement and nothing to do with where the van is sold.

There does not appear to be a 645 in any shape or form listed for the latest vans, but the 645 was a strong seller until around 2015 or thereabouts.

 

And it is over 7 mtrs body length , so without a 3500+ vehicle , illegal to tow in the UK.

How do you know it is over 7m in body length as I have done a Google search and cannot find the specifications for the 645VIP?   Actually even on the German Hobby website on the pdf there is no VIP 645 mentioned which is why I assumed it was a model to comply with UK spec.  I had no idea of the U and the K as per Borassia's post.

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15 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

How do you know it is over 7m in body length 

 

Because the OP said so right at the top:

 

"...the internal length minus the gas locker(which apparently is under 7 metres) or the external body length(over 7 meters long so illegal to tow)"

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If it's got 2 axles, there is a very high possibility that the external body length will exceed 7m

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1 hour ago, Borussia 1900 said:

I still don't understand why only the UK has the 7m rule, so much for EU standardisation.

 

Typical UK bureaucracy. Caravans under 7 m are classed as leisure vehicles and are VAT rated at the normal rate. 'Vans over 7 m are classed as residential and a lower rate of VAT is applied. Quite how that defines the permitted class of towing vehicle, I have yet to understand

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3 minutes ago, Borussia 1900 said:

If it's got 2 axles, there is a very high possibility that the external body length will exceed 7m

 

True, there's only one exception in the Hobby range: the Prestige 620 CL (body length 6.85m). Perhaps that one is designed for our UK CL sites!

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5 minutes ago, svimes said:

 

Because the OP said so right at the top:

 

"...the internal length minus the gas locker(which apparently is under 7 metres) or the external body length(over 7 meters long so illegal to tow)"

I read that but is the OP correct.  On this same forum there is a post about the VIP 645 where it states that the 645 is 7m or under. 

 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

I read that but is the OP correct.  On this same forum there is a post about the VIP 645 where it states that the 645 is 7m or under. 

 

 

I guess people took the OP to know his lengths, just not the definitions.

 

This extract is from the 2015 manual - I'm not sure what the lengths ("length of caravan" or "length") refer to but it seems that the 645 is either 6.66m or 7.15m.

 

Looking at the differences between boy length and total length for the 2019 twin axles (about 1.15m) I 'd say that "length" (7.15m) is the value that the OP needs here.

 

image.thumb.png.7cbc1119ec65ef8638eadf1b772a8941.png

Edited by svimes
extra info

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7 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

I read that but is the OP correct.  On this same forum there is a post about the VIP 645 where it states that the 645 is 7m or under. 

No it does not.

If you read the whole series of postings you will see that the 645 was based on the 650 which is 7.6m body length and that apart from a couple of 610 models, all models from 540 (which is what I have) are over 7m body length. 

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3 minutes ago, Brecon said:

No it does not.

If you read the whole series of postings you will see that the 645 was based on the 650 which is 7.6m body length and that apart from a couple of 610 models, all models from 540 (which is what I have) are over 7m body length. 

 

545s (about 6.25m), 560s (about 6.3m)  and 620s (6.85m) also seem to be under the 7m limit too. This year's brochure lists a few different 540 models ranging from 6.1 to 6.25m.  

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26 minutes ago, svimes said:

 

545s (about 6.25m), 560s (about 6.3m)  and 620s (6.85m) also seem to be under the 7m limit too. This year's brochure lists a few different 540 models ranging from 6.1 to 6.25m.  

But the 650's jump up to 7.15m (2019 brochure in German) so it could be close with a 645

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The body length of the 645 VIP is  7355, length including A frame is 8530, floor length 6762

 

 

645.jpg

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