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The law refers to 'mobility scooters' as invalid carriages (class 2 or class 3)

and these are subject to very specific regulations including amongst other things, who can use them, the speed they can do on pavements and on the road and even when they are prohibited from the road! I have heard nothing to suggest anyone is considering banning their use.

 

As Mr Plod has said, the 'toy' scooters with two or three wheels are classified as mechanically propelled vehicles. Since the early days of vehicles the various Road traffic Acts have defined classification of vehicles, and as has been rightly pointed out these laws were passed by politicians. What is not happening is politicians of today trying to outlaw electric 'toy' scooters.. (They have no need to do so as they are already outlawed)

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46 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

The term "electrical scooters (not the Vespa type)" would surely be interpreted by most people as pointing at mobility scooters. Any two-wheeled scooter would be considered as the Vespa type.

 

It may not have been the OP's intention but the wording used causes offence.

Really ? Clearly not, everyone on here except one and now possibly 2 interpreted it as the OP intended.

 

So heres a scooter VESPA type

 

image.png.0706b13a8e4b719bbd4f16df35d7d415.png

 

And heres one NOT VESPA type
image.thumb.png.171d9a35c83152168e55681cae9c7517.png

2 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

For the avoidance of doubt it’s not the politicians who have banned their use but the law.

 

By definition IF they are a “Mechanically propelled vehicle made adapted or intended for use on a road”  Then they come under the full gambit of what every “mechanically propelled vehicle made adapted etc” has to have. (By riding one in a road there is the “intention” proven before anyone leaps on that)

 

That list involves brakes, lights, tyres, springs, mudguards, horn etc etc and that’s before we even think about Whole Vehicle Type Approval!

 

What I am saying is that IN LAW these electric scooters are classed in exactly the same way as say a moped is. As they do not comply with just about every construction and use regulation requirement they are not allowed on a public highway. That’s before we then get to the requirement for all mechanically propelled vehicles ancillary Regs such as registration, driving licence Regs, helmets  for the rider, third party insurance cover etc etc. 

 

All of these regulations were were brought in long before anyone THOUGHT of electric scooters, that’s why there is now a specific set of regulations to cover Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles because, before those Regs came in they were in the same situation as electric scooters currently are, that being illegal due to everything (and more) that I have listed above.  And no these scooters don’t come under the definition of EAPC’s either (no pedals etc) 

 

I hope that clarifies things a little?

 

Andy

 

My boys 20 years ago had an electric scooter, my eldest made it for his GCSE project, he roade to school and back daily and it really was good and efficient transport. I can see it wasnt legal, we had a 750w motor so that it could climb a relatively steep hill on his way to school. It was a great project and we data logged the journeys etc, regen braking was added later. They both did ride it sensibly slowing right down when they approached pedestrians. On one occasion Matty was on his way home from school and was stopped by the police, they asked all sorts of questions the final one can we have a go, they were up and down the pavement too in uniform LOL. They saw him many times after and waived as they went by.

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So now we all know what the thread is about and why these electric scooters can’t be used on roads or paths. My main point earlier was that these are being used across Europe to provide cheap, zero emission mass transport. Kay’s recently been on a work trip to Barcelona, and apparently there are hordes of them being used by everyone from sharp dressed local businessmen to tourists. And they’re widely available as an app based rental, a bit like Boris bikes, but electrically powered. 

 

In this country we make a big deal of reducing congestion and emissions in cities, promoting public transport, cycling and electric cars.  I can’t see why these scooters shouldn't play a part in that. But no, we are stuck in the past, with no forward thinking or acceptance of another element of a modern transport solution. 

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But if you read the Article in the Independent that Commander Dave provided a link to on the previous page you will see that they are most certainly NOT without their “problems” 

 

Andy

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

But if you read the Article in the Independent that Commander Dave provided a link to on the previous page you will see that they are most certainly NOT without their “problems” 

 

Andy

It's also fair to say that none of these "leisure" vehicles are Type approved in any EU state and cannot therefore be legally used on the road or indeed in public areas in any of those member states. 

However some states have provided derogations , sometimes generally , sometimes for specific vehicles eg Segway, to allow their use.

(An example of member states exercising their rights to make their own laws, who knew) 

 

Currently in the UK these none type approved vehicles can only be used on privately owned land with the land owners permission. They can be used in areas to which the public have access but only where the private land owner has given the permission.

EG Centerparcs allow them and some National trust properties.

 

The UK government has chosen not to prepare a derogation despite being allowed to, and at one time incorrectly cited EU legislation as the reason for this.

Locally a few years ago there were a spate of prosecutions made for a Segway user and a number of Hover board owners.

Edited by Towtug

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This is not an electric scooter

image.png.cfd34cc0a1fb59bbf01a1db2c6698762.png

 

But this is

image.png.6c4610dc6893dd5443b500a54d00b336.png

;)

 

 

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The bottom one has 4 wheels, scooters dont.

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On 07/07/2019 at 23:32, Towtug said:

It's also fair to say that none of these "leisure" vehicles are Type approved in any EU state and cannot therefore be legally used on the road or indeed in public areas in any of those member states. 

However some states have provided derogations , sometimes generally , sometimes for specific vehicles eg Segway, to allow their use.

(An example of member states exercising their rights to make their own laws, who knew) 

 

Currently in the UK these none type approved vehicles can only be used on privately owned land with the land owners permission. They can be used in areas to which the public have access but only where the private land owner has given the permission.

EG Centerparcs allow them and some National trust properties.

 

The UK government has chosen not to prepare a derogation despite being allowed to, and at one time incorrectly cited EU legislation as the reason for this.

Locally a few years ago there were a spate of prosecutions made for a Segway user and a number of Hover board owners.

 

They have recently been made legal in Germany subject to certain conditions being fulfilled:

  1. They must only be used on cycle paths, not on footpaths. Only where there are no cycle paths may they be used on the road.
  2. They are limited to a maximum speed of 20km/h.
  3. They must have national type approval.
  4. They must be covered by third party insurance
  5. The rider must be at least 14 years of age

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8 hours ago, Lutz said:

 

They have recently been made legal in Germany subject to certain conditions being fulfilled:

  1. They must only be used on cycle paths, not on footpaths. Only where there are no cycle paths may they be used on the road.
  2. They are limited to a maximum speed of 20km/h.
  3. They must have national type approval.
  4. They must be covered by third party insurance
  5. The rider must be at least 14 years of age

A sensible approach which I believe is also used in the Netherlands. We have one stumbling block for that in the UK inasmuch there isnt a category under National approval to homologation them.

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1 hour ago, Towtug said:

A sensible approach which I believe is also used in the Netherlands. We have one stumbling block for that in the UK inasmuch there isnt a category under National approval to homologation them.

 

No, there wasn't in Germany either until a few weeks ago, but demand was so strong that the government pushed the necessary legislation through in record time.

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1 hour ago, Lutz said:

 

No, there wasn't in Germany either until a few weeks ago, but demand was so strong that the government pushed the necessary legislation through in record time.

Trying to get the British government to push ANY legislation through "in record time" is doomed to failure I'm afraid.

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10 hours ago, Townie said:

Trying to get the British government to push ANY legislation through "in record time" is doomed to failure I'm afraid.

Just saw this on BBC

 

BBC News - Electric scooter rider killed in Battersea lorry crash https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48968912

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