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Towtug

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On 29/06/2019 at 18:31, Stevan said:

Could it actually be that the quality of vans, on the whole, is improving, providing less incentive to trade up after a few years?

Granted, all manufacturers produce the odd lemon and far too many have niggling little faults that should never have left the production line, but is the overall quality improving?

 

Just how do the 4,5 and 6 year old vans of today compare with those of (say) 4 years ago?

What is improving is the cost of a new caravan however quality is still 20th century poor quality!

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I cant quite figure out the op . A report about a downturn in car sales is about car sales. What statistics are available for caravan sales, and motor caravan sales? I have no LV industry knowledge but suspect touring caravan sales are down, motor caravan sales are probably up (recent legislation to free up pension pots?). I also suspect  site investment in touring caravan pitches has stopped and investment in static caravans/cabins has increased. Wherever we go especially on the continent, we see more plastic sheds being built to replace camping and caravan pitches. Site operators are trying to find a way for their future existence. I think the European governments have blighted the car industry and delivered a hammer blow to the touring caravan industry with there stated intention to ban everything not pure electric. 

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13 minutes ago, Ern said:

I cant quite figure out the op . A report about a downturn in car sales is about car sales. What statistics are available for caravan sales, and motor caravan sales? I have no LV industry knowledge but suspect touring caravan sales are down, motor caravan sales are probably up (recent legislation to free up pension pots?). I also suspect  site investment in touring caravan pitches has stopped and investment in static caravans/cabins has increased. Wherever we go especially on the continent, we see more plastic sheds being built to replace camping and caravan pitches. Site operators are trying to find a way for their future existence. I think the European governments have blighted the car industry and delivered a hammer blow to the touring caravan industry with there stated intention to ban everything not pure electric. 

I dare say there are statistics somewhere, the NCC said the market was buoyant after the last show, anecdotally it didn't seem that way to me.

I've dealt with a number of dealers and manufacturers since then, none seem to be having an easy time.

Even this time last year some were complaining of a slump.

I think you are right about the UK government leading the "eco" charge and  dealing a hammer blow to the motor industry, it follows that towed vehicles will follow (no pun intended).

Motorhomes will be next none of the hybrids or FEs I've seen so far would cut the mustard in the motorhome world.

 

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I store my van at the local dealers and have to pass the area where they store the sold ones. I would estimate at least 30 vans and motor homes, with a fairly even mix of new and used. This number has been fairly constant since the new year. So their sales seem fairly constant.

 

Regarding the car retailers, I had to call to get a pair of tyres on last Wednesday lunch time and Kwik fit was the cheapest surprisingly, and is next door to Bristol Street Motors, one SEAT and one Skoda. Over the road is Kia and Hyundai local independent dealer. So had a mooch around as I have been meaning to call in for a few weeks.

 

Looked into the Seat one, no salesperson would lift heir heads form the PC screens. I then inquired about a Tarracco, and the  saleperson couldn't be bothered to get up to discuss it.

 

So went next door to the Skoda dealership. 2 customers were waiting at the desks, and there were another 3 again engrossed on the laptops. No interest in engaging me. I am interested in changing as well so asked one of them for some info and was told be with you in a minute. I hovered about for 10 minutes but no show so I left. I have previously bought a new car here. 

 

I was in my work gear, company t shirt and trousers so maybe I didn't look like a prospective buyer, but before this dealership was taken over, it was privately owned and the sales people would always approach you and ask if you need any assistance please shout up.

 

Not sure if they have met their targets but the sales staff just do not seem to be interested or it must be me

 

Evans Halshaw around here are terrible, but are the only Ford dealer so have a fair monopoly on sales and service.

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2 minutes ago, Benny65 said:

 

Not sure if they have met their targets but the sales staff just do not seem to be interested or it must be me

 

 

I think they will probably done just done and awaiting their rewards.

Mind you if a dealer hasn't met in the last days of months then it is completely different.

A friend who was working in the accounts at a dealership told me the Sales manager as been known on last day of month to sell at cost to achieve targets.

 

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4 minutes ago, Benny65 said:

I store my van at the local dealers and have to pass the area where they store the sold ones. I would estimate at least 30 vans and motor homes, with a fairly even mix of new and used. This number has been fairly constant since the new year. So their sales seem fairly constant.

 

Regarding the car retailers, I had to call to get a pair of tyres on last Wednesday lunch time and Kwik fit was the cheapest surprisingly, and is next door to Bristol Street Motors, one SEAT and one Skoda. Over the road is Kia and Hyundai local independent dealer. So had a mooch around as I have been meaning to call in for a few weeks.

 

Looked into the Seat one, no salesperson would lift heir heads form the PC screens. I then inquired about a Tarracco, and the  saleperson couldn't be bothered to get up to discuss it.

 

So went next door to the Skoda dealership. 2 customers were waiting at the desks, and there were another 3 again engrossed on the laptops. No interest in engaging me. I am interested in changing as well so asked one of them for some info and was told be with you in a minute. I hovered about for 10 minutes but no show so I left. I have previously bought a new car here. 

 

I was in my work gear, company t shirt and trousers so maybe I didn't look like a prospective buyer, but before this dealership was taken over, it was privately owned and the sales people would always approach you and ask if you need any assistance please shout up.

 

Not sure if they have met their targets but the sales staff just do not seem to be interested or it must be me

 

Evans Halshaw around here are terrible, but are the only Ford dealer so have a fair monopoly on sales and service.

You get good and bad in all walks of life. Often it's down to the individual.

My local Kia dealer on the whole is pretty good, I put this down to one of the sales guys (note not the manager) , he is old school,  he remembers you , he asks about the family, he gives you the impression at least that he's sincere, but more to the point nothing is too much trouble. This seems to rub off on the younger guys.

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38 minutes ago, Towtug said:

You get good and bad in all walks of life. Often it's down to the individual.

My local Kia dealer on the whole is pretty good, I put this down to one of the sales guys (note not the manager) , he is old school,  he remembers you , he asks about the family, he gives you the impression at least that he's sincere, but more to the point nothing is too much trouble. This seems to rub off on the younger guys.

Had good service in the Skoda garage previously but now its been taken over we will have to revisit and see what happens. My local Volvo dealer used to be very good, but they have now been taken over by Stoneacre and had to ring a central office now to book it in for service. Keeping fingers crossed they haven't changed.

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On my second Peugeot this on now coming up to 4 years old and only thinking a couple of days ago my dealer no longer communicates with me on servicing  and offers from service department.

Can only think it due to Peugeot closing down "My Peugeot" on their website where I stored all the data on my cars, when they closed it they deleted my data.

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By contrast I popped into Greypaul Ferrari in Solihull a few weeks back with my son, I wasn’t sure of the response we’d get but the receptionist came over and asked me how she could help - I looked at FB Junior and said ‘we’re just having a look if that’s okay?’ and as equally pleasant as when she first came over she said ‘of course, some of the cars are locked but feel free to try those that are open and if you have any questions I’ll ensure somebody can assist’. We then spent half an hour looking around, sitting in cars and so on, no issues or pressure and as we left we both thanked her.

 

I’m not really in the market for a Ferrari but FB Junior might be one day.

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52 minutes ago, FrankBullet said:

By contrast I popped into Greypaul Ferrari in Solihull a few weeks back with my son, I wasn’t sure of the response we’d get but the receptionist came over and asked me how she could help - I looked at FB Junior and said ‘we’re just having a look if that’s okay?’ and as equally pleasant as when she first came over she said ‘of course, some of the cars are locked but feel free to try those that are open and if you have any questions I’ll ensure somebody can assist’. We then spent half an hour looking around, sitting in cars and so on, no issues or pressure and as we left we both thanked her.

 

I’m not really in the market for a Ferrari but FB Junior might be one day.

I have wealthy in-laws and often go to Porsche Showrooms with the old boy, always find the Showrooms/Sales staff very chilled and friendly.

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Posted (edited)

Just been checking some figures for New caravan registrations in Germany

 

For the month of May caravan registrations were 3976 an increase of 12.8% over last year. (The adjusted figure for the first quarter is 11.7%)

For motorhomes in the same period  May saw 8104 regs an increase of 16.4% (first quarter 15.3%)

 

The European analysis for new caravans only has current accurate data for 2017 MY

The UK was shown as +6.2%, less than half of Germanys +15%

However, there were 1900 more Van's sold in UK than Germany during that period.

 

The 2017  combined UK and German total is over 50% of the total sold across EU27

 

It will be interesting to see what the 2018 figures show when available I full.

Currently Germany reports a 12.5% rise (combined leisure vehicles) , with 8.6% increase in France.

Interestingly they dont give a figure for the UK other than to say it's a 6.2% decline, and further seek to justify it by saying it appears to be caused by economic uncertainty over the Brexit outcome.

 

 

Edited by Towtug

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9 minutes ago, Towtug said:

Just been checking some figures for New caravan registrations in Germany

 

For the month of May caravan registrations were 3976 an increase of 12.8% over last year. (The adjusted figure for the first quarter is 11.7%)

For motorhomes in the same period  May saw 8104 regs an increase of 16.4% (first quarter 15.3%)

 

The European analysis for new caravans only has current accurate data for 2017 MY

The UK was shown as +6.2%, less than half of Germanys +15%

However, there were 1900 more Van's sold in UK than Germany during that period.

 

The 2017  combined UK and German total is over 50% of the total sold across EU27

 

It will be interesting to see what the 2018 figures show.

Reads like a GCSE maths question! 

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2 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Reads like a GCSE maths question! 

Perhaps if our politicians had a GCSE between them I wouldnt need to ask.

Ooh controversial!!!!

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56 minutes ago, Towtug said:

Perhaps if our politicians had a GCSE between them I wouldnt need to ask.

Ooh controversial!!!!

Our politicians have Oxbridge degrees coming out of their ears. They do, however, often lack any pre-parliamentary employment experience; any common sense; and, with relatively few exceptions, they are devoid of integrity and decency. The latter is not really surprising; I went to a John Sargent Lecture some years ago and an audience member asked how he could bear to deal everyday with people who lied for a living. His answer was that we should remember that politicians have to negotiate in situations that we would not want to be involved in, with people we would not want to deal with, to achieve an outcome that please nobody, but is actually relatively successful over time.

But, that was said before we had candidates for PM who believe it is perfectly OK for businesses to go bust, for employees to lose their employment and all the security that goes with it, to deliver Brexit to benefit those who gain most by having their investments offshore and beyond the reach of the new EU legislation. Also un peu controversial!

Steve

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Posted (edited)

 

It's funny how some people have the need to always twist a conversation to Brexit blu bla...boring..

There are 2 sides to every argument and I had a problem that cost several British workers in my company a job, thanks directly to the EU...thats something that did happen, not something that might, or could, or possibly, maybe happen!

The country had a vote, a decision was made, now get on with it......  

 

anyway, back to topic.... We are ready to buy a new caravan, however what we would like is too heavy for our car... therefore it means replacing the car as well.... lots of confusion regarding emissions so I will probably get a petrol and am looking at it now.....  cars getting lighter & vans getting heavier doesn't help the formula...

 

 

Edited by Les666
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Buying confidence.......

 

The uncertainty surrounding Brexit doesn't help build confidence. Most employers are re-thinking their plans for the future which make people feel nervous about spending money.

The future could include interest rate rises on top of job worries.

With Honda, Toyota, Nissan and LR/Jaguar (many others too) all reducing their workforce and the knock on effect on their supply chain does not build confidence.

Even if Brexit is sorted tomorrow the re-percussions will continue for decades. 

Leaving Europe seems as though it's just the start of our problems not the answer as promised.

 

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What a strange thread this is. Towtug posts a question ( a good one) based on numbers which seem irrelevant to the subject, and we end up with...….., guess what? …..Brexit of coarse. There is not the slightest connection between these two subjects.

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2018 saw a record high in Motorhome sales so perhaps we are seeing a change in trends ?

 

 

 

 

Dave

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7 hours ago, Ern said:

What a strange thread this is. Towtug posts a question ( a good one) based on numbers which seem irrelevant to the subject, and we end up with...….., guess what? …..Brexit of coarse. There is not the slightest connection between these two subjects.

 

You believe that those expecting to be laid off due to Brexit is still just as likely to  go out and buy a new car or caravan?

 

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7 hours ago, Ern said:

What a strange thread this is. Towtug posts a question ( a good one) based on numbers which seem irrelevant to the subject, and we end up with...….., guess what? …..Brexit of coarse. There is not the slightest connection between these two subjects.

 

If you don’t think it has an impact on consumer and industry confidence, whether that materialises or not, then I’d suggest you spend a little more time reading and researching.

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Posted (edited)

give me strength, why do some people have to bang on about Brexit... There is a world wide lack of sales, a lot of it due to over production.

 

General Motors has shut a plant in Australia, sold its operations in Europe, Russia and Africa. They will close four plants in the US and one in Canada this year, at a cost of almost 6,000 jobs.  

Jaguar Land Rover will cut 4,500 jobs globally.

 Honda will discontinue production of the Civic in Gebze, Turkey, affecting 1,000 workers.

VW have announced up to 7,000 job cuts in Germany.

Ford shedding 12,000 jobs in Europe, only 1,200 in UK.

 

So why?

 

Younger people are are far less likely to see car ownership as necessary. Cars are primarily seen as a means of transport, and many people find car pooling or ride sharing apps like Uber to be more convenient. There is also a growth in cycling, the use of electric bikes, scooters and other forms of personal transportation.

 

There is also a lot of confusion about Diesel after recent scandals with the latest Euro 6 vehicles banned from a few cities in Europe, plus the new Euro 7 comes out next year.

In Europe new petrol/diesel vehicles will be not be sold from 2030 (10 years before the UK) so production has to change, consequently people are  buying pre owned till the new generation of electric cars arrive.

 

So is Brexit to blame for all this??  no of course not, however the knock on means that for many there is less money about for everything from  TVs to caravans..

 

Edited by Les666
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20 minutes ago, Les666 said:

So is Brexit to blame for all this??  no of course not, however the knock on means that for many there is less money about for everything from  TVs to caravans..

 

No one is blaming brexit for global changes in car sales - just the additional effects in the UK.

 

This thread is about Caravan sales though, isn't it?

 

It's incredible to suggest that the current uncertainty over our possible EU exit isn't influencing people, even for those who still believe in the "sunlit uplands" nonsense on the other side of the current mess!

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People have probably read this forum when thinking about buying a caravan, seen that they are a made to a shoddy standard and thought it quicker and easier to cut out the middle man and just burn their money :D

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UK manufacturing output is lowest for 6 years; consumer debt grows at a much lower rate than forecast [although welcome for the Bank of England who have been instructing Banks to provide more capital to balance the mushrooming size of consumer debt, mainly in the car purchase sector]; and falling output in some EU economies. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jul/01/uk-factories-brexit-manufacturing-sector-stockpiling-europe

Consumer confidence will continue to drive the market.

Steve

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1 hour ago, Les666 said:

give me strength, why do some people have to bang on about Brexit... There is a world wide lack of sales, a lot of it due to over production.

 

No need to be a snowflake about it.

 

OP was asking about caravan sales, not international commerce and business, the ‘B word’ is relevant to the UK market in the same way other economies have challenges that don’t affect the UK in the same way (the same is true for opportunities).

 

You might not like it, you might feel uncomfortable that others don’t share your views, but others do have the view that it is a continual issue that affects the UK economy and will do for years to come whatever happens on the 31st October.

 

You could try to be articulate and explain why it’s not affecting sales or just accept its one of many factors.

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