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Zuberry

Caravan payload

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33 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

A weight plate on the axle has no relevance to the end user. It is only there for the caravan manufacturer. The only valid axle load limits of the final finished product are those displayed on the statutory plate and they can be different to those on the axle.

 

 

Not forgetting that many on here will not have the front locker statutory plate fitted.

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No statutory plate in the locker of my 2010 Pegasus 462. The axle weight limit is 1450kg and I've got an upgrade to 1420kg giving me an additional 94kg. I have no need, or intention, to use all of the 94kg, it just gives me a bit of flexibility when loading. I have a  2.0 TDCi S Max and I'm still within 85% of KW and my GTW.

John

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45 minutes ago, Griff said:

 

Not forgetting that many on here will not have the front locker statutory plate fitted.

 

I was referring specifically to caravans that are subject to whole vehicle type approval, i.e. those manufactured since October 2014.

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1 hour ago, Lutz said:

 

I was referring specifically to caravans that are subject to whole vehicle type approval, i.e. those manufactured since October 2014.

 

I think also, that didn't we find out that Elddis have started to only use one "plate" in the last four of years?

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14 minutes ago, svimes said:

 

I think also, that didn't we find out that Elddis have started to only use one "plate" in the last four of years?

 

It's only the statutory information on the plate that counts. Any further information that may be present on the same plate is for guidance only. Elddis will still have the necessary maximum permissible axle load displayed on that part of the label or plate which contains the statutory information.

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14 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

It's only the statutory information on the plate that counts. Any further information that may be present on the same plate is for guidance only. Elddis will still have the necessary maximum permissible axle load displayed on that part of the label or plate which contains the statutory information.

 

Sorry, but you missed the point I was tentatively making, which is that after a few years of providing two plates (and lots of confusion) I think Elddis have switched to only one plate.

 

If that's correct (a 2018 or 2019 Elddis owner can confirm) and the single plate is on the outside of the van then those owners won't have a plate in the gas locker.

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1 hour ago, johntog said:

No statutory plate in the locker of my 2010 Pegasus 462. The axle weight limit is 1450kg and I've got an upgrade to 1420kg giving me an additional 94kg. I have no need, or intention, to use all of the 94kg, it just gives me a bit of flexibility when loading. I have a  2.0 TDCi S Max and I'm still within 85% of KW and my GTW.

John

 

A statutory plate was already required prior to introduction of whole vehicle type approval although its format wasn't defined quite so precisely.

 

4 minutes ago, svimes said:

 

Sorry, but you missed the point I was tentatively making, which is that after a few years of providing two plates (and lots of confusion) I think Elddis have switched to only one plate.

 

If that's correct (a 2018 or 2019 Elddis owner can confirm) and the single plate is on the outside of the van then those owners won't have a plate in the gas locker.

 

There have never been two statutory plates. Legislation only refers to one and nowhere does it say that it must be in the gas locker, even though it often is.

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3 minutes ago, Lutz said:

There have never been two statutory plates. Legislation only refers to one and nowhere does it say that it must be in the gas locker, even though it often is.

 

Sorry, you missed my point again. I must not be very clear. I'm not saying that there were ever two statutory plates. 

 

I think you'll agree that the provision of two plates did cause confusion though. I don't feel that was ever definitively cleared up tbh but it's irrelevant to the point I was making which was that some brand new UK vans may not have a plate in the gas locker. We just need an Elddis owner to confirm that.

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13 minutes ago, svimes said:

 

Sorry, but you missed the point I was tentatively making, which is that after a few years of providing two plates (and lots of confusion) I think Elddis have switched to only one plate.

 

If that's correct (a 2018 or 2019 Elddis owner can confirm) and the single plate is on the outside of the van then those owners won't have a plate in the gas locker.

That is correct as no statutory plate inside the locker and I have just been outside to check.  There is only a sticker that can be removed with the VIN and weights on it by the door and I don't think that is regarded as a statutory plate in UK legislation as it does not seem to comply with current UK legislation.  More than likely there is a statutory plate on the axle of chassis, but I am not crawling underneath to check.

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Just now, Durbanite said:

That is correct as no statutory plate inside the locker and I have just been outside to check.  There is only a sticker that can be removed with the VIN and weights on it by the door and I don't think that is regarded as a statutory plate in UK legislation as it does not seem to comply with current UK legislation.  More than likely there is a statutory plate on the axle of chassis, but I am not crawling underneath to check.

 

It's unlikely that the statutory plate is on the axle because it wouldn't comply with the requirement that it must be, quote, "in a conspicuous and readily accessible position".

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24 minutes ago, svimes said:

 

Sorry, you missed my point again. I must not be very clear. I'm not saying that there were ever two statutory plates. 

 

I think you'll agree that the provision of two plates did cause confusion though. I don't feel that was ever definitively cleared up tbh but it's irrelevant to the point I was making which was that some brand new UK vans may not have a plate in the gas locker. We just need an Elddis owner to confirm that.

 

No need for any confirmation. Legislation isn't specific regarding location in the gas locker. It can be combined in another plate elsewhere so long as the following requirement is fulfilled:

"The manufacturer may indicate additional information below or to the side of the prescribed inscriptions, outside a clearly marked rectangle which shall enclose only the information prescribed in Sections 2 and 3."

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4 hours ago, Lutz said:

 

A weight plate on the axle has no relevance to the end user.

 

 

That is not true.

Many manufacturers do not use the complete axle weight available. Alot of dealers order  caravans with a lighter weight, so that they can lure in customers that have lighter tow-cars.

Also caravans are sometimes ordered with a larger axle, and "downsized" so that they can be towed with a smaler vehicle.

The weight on the statutory plate is what the manufacturer has "given" you. Most of the time there will be a difference of anything up to 200 or even 400KG.

The manufacturer will send you a new statutory plate for a small fee..... ( depending on the other parts that have been installed ( Tow hitch, wheels, tyres, brakes ...... )

 

BTW. Our statutory plate is also a sticker that is located at the front of the van where the gas bottle is.....

 

Edited by farlands

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1 hour ago, Lutz said:

No need for any confirmation

 

Back at the top of this page, in quoting Griff, you implied that it might only be pre 2014 vans that didn't have a statutory plate in the locker.

 

I just wanted to clarify that some new UK vans don't have their plate in the locker and that they may only have one plate.

 

I can see now that you did not mean it to come across that way.

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22 minutes ago, farlands said:

 

That is not true.

Many manufacturers do not use the complete axle weight available. Alot of dealers order  caravans with a lighter weight, so that they can lure in customers that have lighter tow-cars.

Also caravans are sometimes ordered with a larger axle, and "downsized" so that they can be towed with a smaler vehicle.

The weight on the statutory plate is what the manufacturer has "given" you. Most of the time there will be a difference of anything up to 200 or even 400KG.

The manufacturer will send you a new statutory plate for a small fee..... ( depending on the other parts that have been installed ( Tow hitch, wheels, tyres, brakes ...... )

 

BTW. Our statutory plate is also a sticker that is located at the front of the van where the gas bottle is.....

 

 

If manufacturers don't use the maximum permissible axle weight available then this will be obvious by looking at the axle load rating that the caravan manufacturer has displayed on the statutory plate. It will show a lower maximum axle load than what the plate on the axle itself specifies.

Axle rating and/or MTPLM changes, whether up or down, can only be carried out if the manufacturer has covered the revised value in his type approval documentation.

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33 minutes ago, farlands said:

The weight on the statutory plate is what the manufacturer has "given" you. Most of the time there will be a difference of anything up to 200 or even 400KG.

Dream on as if we are talking UK caravans as few will have a MPTLM that can be uprated beyond 100kg and many far less.

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Actually, with Continental caravans the chances of uprating after the caravan has already left the factory is even less because their MTPLM is almost invariably the same as the axle load rating. For all practical purposes, uprating is only possible prior to build.

 

Edited by Lutz

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Caravan manufacturers match the axle to the caravan by selecting an axle with a rating just greater than needed for the caravan loadings. They will not fit axles with considerably more load rating as these will not have the appropriate suspension characteristics. I'm sure that in cases where the caravan manufacturer offers an upgrade of (say) 300Kg, then a different axle will be fitted. Alko make a limited range of suspension axles but each version can have a variety of suspension loadings and plated axle loading within the load rating range. Alko's product web site is pretty easy to read. 

If you fitted a 1600Kg axle under a 1300Kg caravan (and didn't load it beyond 1300Kg)  the suspension would be too stiff. These suspension ales have suspension of a very crude design.

Edited by Ern

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18 hours ago, Durbanite said:

That is correct as no statutory plate inside the locker and I have just been outside to check.  There is only a sticker that can be removed with the VIN and weights on it by the door and I don't think that is regarded as a statutory plate in UK legislation as it does not seem to comply with current UK legislation.  More than likely there is a statutory plate on the axle of chassis, but I am not crawling underneath to check.

On my 2019 Swift, still the two plate scenario.

20190628_191226.thumb.png.97e975509f41cf155ad8fbb2d6f32069.png

 

Screenshot_20190628-191035.thumb.png.bb2a3ca6ce7dae5ca50358ecd0290804.png

 

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17 hours ago, Easy T said:

Dream on as if we are talking UK caravans as few will have a MPTLM that can be uprated beyond 100kg and many far less.

Just for info, our Lunar Delta TI has a MIRO of 1510, original MTPLM of 1670 and an increased MTPLM of 1800.

Gives a sensible payload of 290kg.

We didnt find any other caravan that we liked with such a good payload.

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1 hour ago, Griff said:

On my 2019 Swift, still the two plate scenario.

20190628_191226.thumb.png.97e975509f41cf155ad8fbb2d6f32069.png

 

Screenshot_20190628-191035.thumb.png.bb2a3ca6ce7dae5ca50358ecd0290804.png

 

In your case the Statutory plate is the one in the gas locker.  

 

Lunar fit only a single plate by the door. The information at the bottom is additional and not part of the Statutory plate, it is added to comply with stipulations of NCC .

20190816_071354.jpg

Edited by Towtug

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18 minutes ago, bubble2015 said:

Just for info, our Lunar Delta TI has a MIRO of 1510, original MTPLM of 1670 and an increased MTPLM of 1800.

Gives a sensible payload of 290kg.

We didnt find any other caravan that we liked with such a good payload.

Our Lunae ES is a 3 berth with a payload of 135kg but we were able to upgrade by 100kg to 235kg. Very few UK vans provide that sort of upgrade to their ridiculously low payload that has to include battery, additional gas and motormovers in most cases

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If I hadn't had motor movers fitted to my pegasus 462 I don't think I would have bothered to have a weight upgrade. The extra 94kg means I can carry my awning and cadac in the van if I want. My S Max has a generous load area and weight allowance as there's only two of us plus the dog. However, most of my boot area is taken up my the large dog crate for my GSD, dog food (she eats a lot) and a full size spare wheel. The passenger seating area is easily filled by my wife with items which she considers indispensable but rarely get used :rolleyes:. I've given up saying too much about it as I prefer a quiet life.

John 

Edited by johntog

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On 15/08/2019 at 05:30, farlands said:

Hi Pippsy, the easiest way is just to pop down to your local dealer. They will be able to sort you out.

But if you crawl under your caravan and have a look at the axle, there should be a serial Number and the max payload for the axle. That is the max weight your axle can handle....

But your towing hitch, your brakes and your tyres must also have to cope with the weight.

 

Most manufacturers will upgrade you 100 KG's for a small fee, but anything over that is expensive.....

 

ALKO.JPG

Thanks for reply. 

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On 27/06/2019 at 17:51, Zuberry said:

Thinking of buying a swift Conqueror 480 2016 model.  Finding subject of payload confusing but 127 kgs of personal affects payload doesn’t seem very much.   What are people’s views? 

 

Our 2016 Swift Conqueror 480 was  stock model we had to pay for the payload upgrade to 1554kg, however, we are changing our towcar this year, the manufacture has put a 1500kg maximum towing limit, I have contacted Swift they have informed I need to contact my supplying dealer to downgrade the payload to 1500kg.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Oscarmax said:

 

Our 2016 Swift Conqueror 480 was  stock model we had to pay for the payload upgrade to 1554kg, however, we are changing our towcar this year, the manufacture has put a 1500kg maximum towing limit, I have contacted Swift they have informed I need to contact my supplying dealer to downgrade the payload to 1500kg.

 

Why would you need to downgrade the caravan to 1500kg? Even if it were fully laden to its 1554kg MTPLM you would only be exceeding the towing limit if the noseweight is less than 54kg. The towed load is, after all, only the axle load of the caravan, not its total weight. Besides, the towing limit only refers to the actual load, not the plated maximum, so if in doubt just don't load it right up to the MTPLM.

Edited by Lutz

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