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joanie

electricity usage on site

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3 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

EVs are subject to the same "consumption" test as ICs - that figure plus the battery size is used to calculate the range - the same calculation could be done for ICs using the Combined figure - my Touareg works out at 941 miles!,

And you can have the heater on at the same time !

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3 minutes ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

And you can have the heater on at the same time !

 

I can't actually achieve the official consumption, too much fun with the loud pedal, but by all accounts, EVs are just as hard to achieve quoted figures!

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8 minutes ago, Cabbage Patch said:

dirty diesel

As above (AJ Galaxy) define 'dirty' and following-up on Black Grouse what's the 'real-world' range?!

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As one of the luddites referred to earlier I HAVE had experience of a purely battery powered car whilst working for my local council. A Nissan Leaf. Very pleasant car to drive and be in. Very similar in size etc to the Mazda 3 I owned at the time BUT about twice a week people had to be “rescued” because it just stopped as a result of its terribly restrictive range, and this was a car that was plugged in to a  custom provided three phase charging socket every night and never went out of the county! (It was based pretty much at the geographical centre of the county.

 

Oh, and the initial cost was about 90% MORE than my Mazda 3 for a similar sized vehicle with a very limited range. 

 

Andy

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15 hours ago, Oscarmax said:

 

….in the next 5 -10 years carbon battery will have replaced all of the heavy pollutant Li- On batteries approximately less than a 10th of the weight plus extremely fast recharging using carbon capacitors.

 

 

The EV industry  invented the rose tinted crystal ball years ago!

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11 hours ago, happynomad said:

Whilst you are correct in saying that electricity may only be resold at the price per unit paid by the reseller, a separate charge may be added to cover the electrical infrastructure costs incurred by the reseller.   Call it a standing charge if you will.  It could be a flat daily rate or a percentage of the units consumed price but it must be shown separately to the charge for units consumed.

My own view is that the end user should pay for precisely what they use and not for the next pitch's electric patio and awning heaters.  Metering would achieve that and would hopefully reduce the wasteful excesses of some users.

If you are paying for the electric by the unit there should be no charge for the infrastructure and certainly not a standing charge as a site owner more than likely doe snot have a supplier's licence and is not a reseller.  I agree that some people really take the mickey by having electric heating in the awning  and IMHO they should be kicked off the site.  I wonder if they sit in their garden at home with their electric heater working and consuming vast amounts of kw heating up the local environment or do they only do that when on a caravan site spoiling it for every one else?

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3 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

.  I agree that some people really take the mickey by having electric heating in the awning  and IMHO they should be kicked off the site.  I wonder if they sit in their garden at home with their electric heater working and consuming vast amounts of kw heating up the local environment or do they only do that when on a caravan site spoiling it for every one else?

Sad comment..hope it’s not directed at me. 

Yes I’m one of those that in the winter months sit in my lovely Isabella awning with a heater just to take the chill off . Be happy to pay by meter for what I have used. We like a cold caravan at night (always have the window open) so rarely have the heating on at the same time . In the scheme  of things I probably use less electricity than you.

I also have a large IR patio heater at home as on those lovely crisp winter evenings we can still sit outside enjoying the floodlit garden with a glass of mulled wine. 

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31 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

If you are paying for the electric by the unit there should be no charge for the infrastructure and certainly not a standing charge

That would normally be included in the pitch fee

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Just a thought. Domestic energy consumption has been falling  for the last ten years or so.  EV charging at home may not be the issue that many seem to think it is. I can see on street charging points becoming fairly normal too.

 

Range is the biggest barrier for many but I'm sure that will be overcome fairly quickly. Most People would be happy with a real world 200 mile range so long as a recharge took about 10 mins. It will happen.

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Any business will invest in additional facilities if this sustains or improves their trading position. The investment cost must be recovered from customers. If dedicated charging points are installed and associated parking spaces provided, the cost must be recovered either from individual charges or general charges on the pitch fees. Exactly the same as any other facility - shower block, toilet, dog wash etc. 

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12 minutes ago, svimes said:

I can see on street charging points becoming fairly normal too.

Nowt wrong with your long distance vision then. How far ahead can you see? 

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5 minutes ago, Easy T said:

Nowt wrong with your long distance vision then. How far ahead can you see? 

 

Not that far, it seems

charger1a_1.jpg

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, svimes said:

Just a thought. Domestic energy consumption has been falling  for the last ten years or so.  EV charging at home may not be the issue that many seem to think it is. I can see on street charging points becoming fairly normal too.

 

 

 

Interesting claim, I can't see around here where the farming meadows have in that 10 years been transformed into housing estates on every available bit it holds true?

Edited by JTQ

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, JTQ said:

 

Interesting claim, I can't see around here where the farming meadows have in that 10 years been transformed into housing estates on every available bit it holds true?

 

Per household.

 

Compare your TV, washer etc from ten years ago to the one you have now.

Edited by svimes

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9 minutes ago, svimes said:

 

Not that far, it seems

charger1a_1.jpg

 

It does not look to me the "norm" even in that street ;)

1 minute ago, svimes said:

 

Per household.

 

Compare your TV, washer etc from ten years ago to the one you have now.

 

But is the per household usage getting less at a greater rate than the households getting more so we are left with a surplus of generating capacity to mitigate the replacement of all the energy used now by petrol and diesel fuel powered vehicles with EVs?

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Just now, JTQ said:

It does not look to me the "norm" even in that street ;)

It strikes me that there is one thing having a charge point and another getting at it. Whilst away last year we used a P&R where there were half a dozen parking spaces with charge points. Little use to many as the early commuters parked there before 10am (probably well before) and were still there at 2pm when we passed. I suspect until they left work

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2 minutes ago, JTQ said:

 

It does not look to me the "norm" even in that street ;)

 

Given that EV ownership is very low, it would be a little odd if it was.

 

Perhaps you missed the word "becoming" in my post above? 😘

1 minute ago, Easy T said:

It strikes me that there is one thing having a charge point and another getting at it. Whilst away last year we used a P&R where there were half a dozen parking spaces with charge points. Little use to many as the early commuters parked there before 10am (probably well before) and were still there at 2pm when we passed. I suspect until they left work

 

Easy enough to introduce regulation in a car park or street to ensure proper use. Permits, wardens and cameras are already in place.

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The electric vehicles consumption and what distance it travels and at what speed was explained to me by comparing it to a dyson cordless vacuum cleaner. On a full charge  the cleaner will perform for 40 minutes on the low setting  but if you put it on the boost  or high setting it will only go for 6 minutes.  Therefore I think that charging points will be as common as lamp posts . 

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2 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

As one of the luddites referred to earlier I HAVE had experience of a purely battery powered car whilst working for my local council. A Nissan Leaf. Very pleasant car to drive and be in. Very similar in size etc to the Mazda 3 I owned at the time BUT about twice a week people had to be “rescued” because it just stopped as a result of its terribly restrictive range, and this was a car that was plugged in to a  custom provided three phase charging socket every night and never went out of the county! (It was based pretty much at the geographical centre of the county.

 

Oh, and the initial cost was about 90% MORE than my Mazda 3 for a similar sized vehicle with a very limited range. 

 

Andy

Tesla have go this stitched up nicely. In my recent trip in USA in a model X we put the destination in (4 hour trip New York to Pittsburgh). The Tesla drove itself, told us when and where we needed to stop and for how long. A couple of hours into the journey we accepted it's suggestion, it knew where in the car park a vacant charging point was and took us to it. Plugged in, had a meal and then completed the journey. As we arrived at the hotel it again knew where to go for a charging point and even illuminated the area as we arrived.

Model X and Tesla with it's integration and infrastructure is a perfect model of what needs to be universally available.

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29 minutes ago, svimes said:

 

 

charger1a_1.jpg

Nice idea at first glance!

However:-

 

Typical street light is not cabled for anywhere near the power level needed for an overnight charge for an EV, nor does an average street have a supply sufficient for more than a few of these.

 

Who would pay for the new posts and other infrastructure?

 

Each point would require a meter and some way of charging the cost to the right consumer.

 

Very stringent regulation of parking spaces would be needed to ensure that the spaces next to street lamps were only used by EVs. Not to mention understanding employers when someone phones in to work saying "I can't come in today, someone stole my parking spot at home last night!"

 

What happens when you need more than two charging points for about ten cars?

 

Great fun for the local yobs at night, unplugging peoples cars.

 

Most streets (round here at least!) have the street lamps on the property side not the kerb side and cables across the pavement would be hazardous.

 

Cables soaked in dog wee.

 

Not so good when you beyond the first glance! All these can, of course, be overcome, but at what cost?

9 minutes ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

Tesla have go this stitched up nicely. In my recent trip in USA in a model X we put the destination in (4 hour trip New York to Pittsburgh). The Tesla drove itself, told us when and where we needed to stop and for how long. A couple of hours into the journey we accepted it's suggestion, it knew where in the car park a vacant charging point was and took us to it. Plugged in, had a meal and then completed the journey. As we arrived at the hotel it again knew where to go for a charging point and even illuminated the area as we arrived.

Model X and Tesla with it's integration and infrastructure is a perfect model of what needs to be universally available.

Fine if you are travelling to a hotel with a vacant charging point and your journey spans a mealtime with a suitable eating place at a convenient location that also has a vacant charging point.

And at what cost?

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, svimes said:

 

Given that EV ownership is very low, it would be a little odd if it was.

 

Perhaps you missed the word "becoming" in my post above? 😘

 

Easy enough to introduce regulation in a car park or street to ensure proper use. Permits, wardens and cameras are already in place.

 

But how do you practically address it in a P&R?

Commuter arrives early morning plugs in gets the bus for work.

Does he then take time out and get bus back to the P&R two hours later to move into a non charging bay, so others in EVs can get a charge. I see on one charger I looked at required this clearing after two hours. Somehow I think there is a tad more challenge than introducing a "regulation".

All said very for EVs but I seriously think the infrastructure  and logistics needs a great deal more attention. IMO, a bigger challenge than the vehicles themselves, that I am sure will improve out of all recognition, technology has that habit of advancing and developing.

 

 

Edited by JTQ

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23 minutes ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

Tesla have go this stitched up nicely. In my recent trip in USA in a model X we put the destination in (4 hour trip New York to Pittsburgh). The Tesla drove itself, told us when and where we needed to stop and for how long. A couple of hours into the journey we accepted it's suggestion, it knew where in the car park a vacant charging point was and took us to it. Plugged in, had a meal and then completed the journey. As we arrived at the hotel it again knew where to go for a charging point and even illuminated the area as we arrived.

Model X and Tesla with it's integration and infrastructure is a perfect model of what needs to be universally available.

 

Having to stop for a long enough break for a meal in the middle of a 4 hour journey is ridiculous - on longer journeys, that's a meal every 2 hours !!!

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12 minutes ago, JTQ said:

But how do you practically address it in a P&R?

 

Seemed a pointless and impractical provision to me.

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13 minutes ago, Stevan said:

Not so good when you beyond the first glance! All these can, of course, be overcome, but at what cost?

Fine if you are travelling to a hotel with a vacant charging point and your journey spans a mealtime with a suitable eating place at a convenient location that also has a vacant charging point.

And at what cost?

In USA it was free to charge, the charging points were everywhere, they really have invested heavily. In USA even with their very cheap fuel prices its a no brainer, Tesla all the way, absolutely superb and I'm sure it would tow nicely being heavy  and having beck breaking torque available all the way from 0 to top speed.

5 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

Having to stop for a long enough break for a meal in the middle of a 4 hour journey is ridiculous - on longer journeys, that's a meal every 2 hours !!!

Its recommended you stop every two hours anyway, we didnt need to stop at that point but it was time to grab a bite. The Tesla wasnt out of power at all, we had about another 140 miles range left. Charging 20 minutes gives you another 175 miles range or thereabouts. In what way is this ridiculous?

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1 minute ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

In USA it was free to charge, the charging points were everywhere, they really have invested heavily. 

Free to the user at the time! Someone has to pay for the energy and infrastructure eventually. That investment is expecting a return!

 

17 minutes ago, JTQ said:

 

technology has that habit of advancing and developing.

 

 

Yes, technology has a habit of advancing and developing, but mainly in unexpected directions with unexpected side effects.

Within my lifetime technology has promised many things and failed to deliver on those, but instead delivered what nobody expected.

Free, clean electricity from nuclear power.

Supersonic flight for all on Concorde.

Clean air.

Rapid transport in cities.

Unlimited leisure time to be enjoyed by all.

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