Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
joanie

electricity usage on site

Recommended Posts

In the June issue of the  cc magazine there is a letter entitled Power Point.  It's about using the site electric to charge the hybrid cars, (this got me thinking about the elec bikes and mobility scooters which also need to be charged ). The club response was that the site vehicle charging are manageable, so they know that this happens and are happy with it. Now the last couple of years we have been told that we should minimise our usage of electricity as it will help keep the site fees  down and help the environment . They do have dedicated charging points at Brighton and Black Knowl  and will probably have more.  I know that this is the way the cars are going , but I'm sure diesel will be around for a time yet.  What's your thoughts on this ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, joanie said:

In the June issue of the  cc magazine there is a letter entitled Power Point.  It's about using the site electric to charge the hybrid cars, (this got me thinking about the elec bikes and mobility scooters which also need to be charged ). The club response was that the site vehicle charging are manageable, so they know that this happens and are happy with it. Now the last couple of years we have been told that we should minimise our usage of electricity as it will help keep the site fees  down and help the environment . They do have dedicated charging points at Brighton and Black Knowl  and will probably have more.  I know that this is the way the cars are going , but I'm sure diesel will be around for a time yet.  What's your thoughts on this ?

As soon as the battery technology advances to the next stage there will be widespread use of electric vehicles. The infrastructure for the whole country wont be able to cope with the demand, as for club sites, not a hope in hell, there will be a new policy out pretty sharpish when it happens, awning heaters will be a drop in the ocean compared.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

As soon as the battery technology advances to the next stage there will be widespread use of electric vehicles. The infrastructure for the whole country wont be able to cope with the demand, as for club sites, not a hope in hell, there will be a new policy out pretty sharpish when it happens, awning heaters will be a drop in the ocean compared.

I doubt if battery power will ever really take off as it is not environmentally friendly.  I am not sure how a fuel cell is in comparison to battery, but I would think that it is more environmentally friendly?

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

None of the options is particularly environmentally friendly. Fuel cells require Hydrogen which requires electricity to make it available and new infrastructure to distribute it. Even renewable electricity requires huge infrastructure, let alone the environmental effects of sophisticated battery technology.

I accept that as the fashionability  of electric or hybrid cars increases this will result in some sites having dedicated metered charging points.

As to hybrids, unless the vast majority of time can be electrically propelled, they waste substantial energy just lugging batteries around, and even when electrically propelled  they waste energy lugging an engine around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

I doubt if battery power will ever really take off as it is not environmentally friendly.  I am not sure how a fuel cell is in comparison to battery, but I would think that it is more environmentally friendly?

 

Yes but!!! 

 

You then have the problem of needing to produce the hydrogen needed to power those fuel cells. The easiest source is from water but you need electricity to separate it from the oxygen. Chicken, egg?? 

 

Then there  is the issue of refuelling, Liquid hydrogen needs to be either very cold or under enormous pressure. Now how do you keep things very cold? Ah that would be via refrigeration, and that requires? Electricity of course. And how do you pressurise something? You use a pump, and  they are usually powered by? Yep you got it! Mr amp! 

Then there is the danger associated with a highly compressed highly flammable substance being sat in a tank in the back of your car. Think Hindenburg! That wasn’t highly pressurised by the flammability issue is the same.  (I suppose the technology is already present with LPG tanks, but they weigh a lot so will effect fuel consumption. 

 

You CAN make fuel from plants, but we are going to need a lot more food to feed everyone, so can we spare the space to grow plants to make fuel to power our cars so we can drive to the supermarket to buy our food??

 

Cynical, wot me???

 

Andy

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, joanie said:

In the June issue of the  cc magazine there is a letter entitled Power Point.  It's about using the site electric to charge the hybrid cars, (this got me thinking about the elec bikes and mobility scooters which also need to be charged ). The club response was that the site vehicle charging are manageable, so they know that this happens and are happy with it. Now the last couple of years we have been told that we should minimise our usage of electricity as it will help keep the site fees  down and help the environment . They do have dedicated charging points at Brighton and Black Knowl  and will probably have more.  I know that this is the way the cars are going , but I'm sure diesel will be around for a time yet.  What's your thoughts on this ?

 

Underpinning your post is the clear point that we ('normal' car drivers!) will be subsidising  other members who will access free fuel.  I can feel a campaign coming on!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The simple solution would be to charge for electricity usage. Those with solar panels on vans would benefit, those with high usage pay more.Fair!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, sureflow said:

The simple solution would be to charge for electricity usage. Those with solar panels on vans would benefit, those with high usage pay more.Fair!

 

It has always confused me as to why, on the vast majority of campsites, there is either a “flat fee” for electricity (or it’s built into the overnight price) When I am at home the more electricity I use, the more I have to pay, and it’s the same for gas, water, milk or just about everything else. Now I know some will say (quite rightly I think) that the “flat rate” charged on most sites is waaaay beyond the actual usage that a fridge, water heater, kettle and TV consume, but of course all of the infrastructure to supply ‘leccy to each pitch doesn’t get put in (or maintained!) for free does it? 

 

Many continental sites (Spain in particular) meter your usage and charge accordingly. That system would certainly concentrate the minds of some I have seen on U.K. sites. Best of the lot was a couple who were running an electric patio heater outside there caravan (not in an awning, just outside on the grass!) one autumn evening, oddly they only ever seemed to use it AFTER the site office had closed :rolleyes:

 

And while I am at it why can’t we pay for the actual usage of gas and electric at home monthly rather than quarterly (yes I do know about DD but it’s averaged out over 12 months) Try turning up at Tesco and saying  “Tell you what, I’ll shop here for three months and THEN come and settle my bill”  and see how far that gets you! Sounds daft doesn’t it, but that’s EXACTLY what we do with our gas and electric.

 

Then of course using that system you get the “I can’t afford to pay you and now I’ve got a baybeee so you can’t cut me orf can ya”  brigade. Mrs P worked for British Gas retail for many years and reckoned that was something she would hear in the showroom just about every day and they would have to simply accept pretty much any derisory offer made to “clear” what was owed, usually about a fiver a week and some arrears were over £500. 

 

OK, rant now complete as I am just about to head off to the campsite restaurant for my last helping of “Moule & frites” And a bottle of the chilled pink stuff before my ferry home tomorrow.

 

Oh how I love France.... cheap campsites with NO petty rules, virtually empty roads,  fabulous food at very reasonable prices (especially the lunch time “formula” deals)  good wine, great cheese, decent coffee, gorgeous bread and cakes......... shall I go on? 

 

No!!!  I don’t have the time, my moules are calling meee....eeeee.

 

Andy

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, joanie said:

In the June issue of the  cc magazine there is a letter entitled Power Point.  It's about using the site electric to charge the hybrid cars, (this got me thinking about the elec bikes and mobility scooters which also need to be charged ). The club response was that the site vehicle charging are manageable, so they know that this happens and are happy with it. Now the last couple of years we have been told that we should minimise our usage of electricity as it will help keep the site fees  down and help the environment . They do have dedicated charging points at Brighton and Black Knowl  and will probably have more.  I know that this is the way the cars are going , but I'm sure diesel will be around for a time yet.  What's your thoughts on this 

 

I have just comeback from a 26 night 8 CMC tour and I saw hybrid cars being charged overnight and on one evening occasion  (Belper) a fire in a awning running and owners not present .

 

 

 

Dave

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

It has always confused me as to why, on the vast majority of campsites, there is either a “flat fee” for electricity (or it’s built into the overnight price)

 

Andy

 

That little bit of this immense challenge is easily answered. A twist in the law primarily aimed at rented properties, but without provision to discriminate for camp sites mandates that electricity can't be resold for more than it costs. Therefore,  to charge for what you use requires an in certification meter, and yields no profit; so  having a blanket charge side step that legislation and its implementation costs. I have no reason to believe out of the UK they have the same strictures.

We  therefore live with some subsidising others and on average no doubt covering the site owner's costs.

We will live with it till enough scream how unfair loud enough to boycott  sites not metering.

 

Fuel cells are not damned to use only hydrogen, methanol fuel cells are already in use one made for campers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, JTQ said:

 

Fuel cells are not damned to use only hydrogen, methanol fuel cells are already in use one made for campers.

 

They are pretty nifty bits of kit BUT only 12v, the  cost is simply eye watering. The CHEAPEST is £2400 (yes two thousand four hundred pounds,)  Then there’s the fuel cost AND it has to be collected in person as it cannot be posted/couriered.

 

http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/efoy_fuel_cell.htm

 

Andy 

Edited by Mr Plodd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Battery technology has improved immensely over the last few year, the latest technology is being designed around carbon batteries which are about the 10th of the weight of the current offerings and will be environmental friendly to produce.

 

As regards the use of electric on sites, we have all witness the muppets with awning heater running at full blast, we had a friend who use a 2kWh fan heater to dry the washing in the awning?

 

With the coming of PHEV and in particular EV it is inevitable we will see the introduction of electric meters, we were on a CL the other week, the owner told of us a couple with the air-conditioning running full blast with windows open, several incident of heater running in the awning with no occupants and empty caravans with the heaters  running. They have already put sign up no charging of electric cars and indent to fit electric meters for next year.

 

Next year I will possibly change my diesel to a PHEV, most of my mileage is less than 25 miles which with my energy provider off peak £0.50 to charge plus we only tow 1000 miles a year max so financially it makes  sense, as regards electric meters the answer is yes, I am more than happy to pay for the electric I use.

 

If we end up going down the electric meter route how are they going to manage the high electric winter usage, someone is going to be unhappy/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Oscarmax said:

 

If we end up going down the electric meter route how are they going to manage the high electric winter usage, someone is going to be unhappy/

 

But only those who are presently into using more than they pay for, so I will not worry myself about them.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Oscarmax said:

Battery technology has improved immensely over the last few year, the latest technology is being designed around carbon batteries which are about the 10th of the weight of the current offerings and will be environmental friendly to produce.

 

As regards the use of electric on sites, we have all witness the muppets with awning heater running at full blast, we had a friend who use a 2kWh fan heater to dry the washing in the awning?

 

With the coming of PHEV and in particular EV it is inevitable we will see the introduction of electric meters, we were on a CL the other week, the owner told of us a couple with the air-conditioning running full blast with windows open, several incident of heater running in the awning with no occupants and empty caravans with the heaters  running. They have already put sign up no charging of electric cars and indent to fit electric meters for next year.

 

Next year I will possibly change my diesel to a PHEV, most of my mileage is less than 25 miles which with my energy provider off peak £0.50 to charge plus we only tow 1000 miles a year max so financially it makes  sense, as regards electric meters the answer is yes, I am more than happy to pay for the electric I use.

 

If we end up going down the electric meter route how are they going to manage the high electric winter usage, someone is going to be unhappy/

"Technology being designed" could mean a long way off, I will begin to trust it when the roll out actually gets under way.

Nothing wrong with awning heaters, as long as the infrastructure is there and the users are paying for it!

IMHO many sites will forego meters on many pitches and simply fit 5A breakers in the bollards for most pitches and only put meters on dearer pitches.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Oscarmax said:

With the coming of PHEV and in particular EV it is inevitable we will see the introduction of electric meters, we were on a CL the other week, the owner told of us a couple with the air-conditioning running full blast with windows open, several incident of heater running in the awning with no occupants and empty caravans with the heaters  running. They have already put sign up no charging of electric cars and indent to fit electric meters for next year.

However was the air con running on cooling or was it just the fan running?  We sometimes have the windows open with the air con running with the fan on high, but no cooling.  In addition, if the windows are closed and the air con is on "cool", it does not use a lot of electric over the day as it is thermostatically controlled.  Probably uses a lot less than any heater even if the heating is set low at 18C in the winter, ALDE or Truma heating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

However was the air con running on cooling or was it just the fan running?  We sometimes have the windows open with the air con running with the fan on high, but no cooling.  In addition, if the windows are closed and the air con is on "cool", it does not use a lot of electric over the day as it is thermostatically controlled.  Probably uses a lot less than any heater even if the heating is set low at 18C in the winter, ALDE or Truma heating.

I have seen muppets who have roof lights open wide with outside temperatures below 10 C  at night! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Easy T said:

I have seen muppets who have roof lights open wide with outside temperatures below 10 C  at night! 

May be they pass a lot of wind. Haha 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Oscarmax said:

With the coming of PHEV and in particular EV it is inevitable we will see the introduction of electric meters, we were on a CL the other week, the owner told of us a couple with the air-conditioning running full blast with windows open, several incident of heater running in the awning with no occupants and empty caravans with the heaters  running. They have already put sign up no charging of electric cars and indent to fit electric meters for next year.

 

Mentioned it here before but one of my regular CLs went to meters and lost the bulk of his regulars very quickly.  Had to revert to previous charging regime and back they came.   It almost needs legislation to force every site to adopt meters!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I visited a C.L 2 weeks ago that meters electricity , giving a daily allowance of 10kw, and charging for any excess. I monitored it and never came anywhere near to the limit. I think thats fair , if you want to use more just pay. The site is fully booked with returning custom so thats not an issue here. The owner said before he introduced this some people were just taking the mickey.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sureflow said:

I visited a C.L 2 weeks ago that meters electricity , giving a daily allowance of 10kw, and charging for any excess. I monitored it and never came anywhere near to the limit. I think thats fair , if you want to use more just pay. The site is fully booked with returning custom so thats not an issue here. The owner said before he introduced this some people were just taking the mickey.

 

I think that's a good idea and less likely to lose customers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SamD said:

 

Mentioned it here before but one of my regular CLs went to meters and lost the bulk of his regulars very quickly.  Had to revert to previous charging regime and back they came.   It almost needs legislation to force every site to adopt meters!!

 

Well it wouldn't have worried me, unless perhaps he was already rather expensive.  Maybe he couldn't wait long enough for his clients to get used to the idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, rovinmad said:

Well it wouldn't have worried me, unless perhaps he was already rather expensive.  Maybe he couldn't wait long enough for his clients to get used to the idea.

Personally I would prefer not to have metered electricity. Not because I am a heavy user but because I prefer to do without faffing about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, sureflow said:

I visited a C.L 2 weeks ago that meters electricity , giving a daily allowance of 10kw, and charging for any excess. I monitored it and never came anywhere near to the limit. I think thats fair , if you want to use more just pay. The site is fully booked with returning custom so thats not an issue here. The owner said before he introduced this some people were just taking the mickey.

 

Sounds like one we stayed at a couple of years ago at Three Legged Cross?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I've used metered electric here in the UK on several sites.

One site when you loaded up the meter with credits you couldn't unload it to get a refund for what you hadn't used  the other sites you could.

 

The systems used on all the sites were pretty much the same, a cardboard credit card you slotted into the bollard to load and unload the credits. You choose how much to put on at reception and they top it up, dead easy.

 

Only one issue is you can only gain a refund if the site office is open, one site we left late at night, so left about a fiver for someone else.

 

I dont actually believe the clubs sincerity regarding their choice of language on electric usage, personally I think they chuck out a few well chosen words to increase profits for themselves. They have the ability to install the technology that exists and has for some time to the above system but choose not to.

 

You  cant say reduce electric use to one group but then encourage it to another (cars).

I use my caravan like a second home  it requires plenty of juice, when on CMC or any site I'm on holiday, I'm not going to start worrying or making life less easy for the sake of the clubs profits, they charge at the upper end of the scale anyway, plus membership.

Edited by Wellys and Mac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 The reply that cc gave was that no single user can access more electricity than  any other and that most vehicle charging will be done overnight when the  demand on the site supply is low.  They then go on to say that it may be of interest that the club has a Site Electrical Infrastructure  Forum to address such issues as electrical wastage. Unbelievable, especially as they have had a double increase on site fees recently.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...