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millerhouse12

Speeding with the caravan

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Coming back from York a few weeks ago with the caravan, I got caught by a mobile camera van.  Unusually in my limited experience, the single carriageway stretch of the A19 had fairly light traffic and I was bowling along quite happily keeping up with the flow, so no excuses. However, what has prompted this is that both the initial letter confirming the driver and the one I've just received outlining my options tell me that my alleged offence is "Speeding - exceed 50 mph for a goods vehicle"  - which of course is wrong -  I was towing a caravan and although subject to the same limits, my offence is, I believe, covered by a different section of the Road Traffic acts.  So I'm interested to know if anyone else has had this unfortunate experience and whether the same wording was used.   Is it just lazy terminology or a mistake?  I'm not trying to get out of this as even if it went to court I assume I'd have to travel to York and they would, I assume, get the charge correct when preparing the court documents.  Having committed the crime, taking the Speed Awareness Course seems to be the sensible option.

 

John M

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3 hours ago, millerhouse12 said:

Coming back from York a few weeks ago with the caravan, I got caught by a mobile camera van.  Unusually in my limited experience, the single carriageway stretch of the A19 had fairly light traffic and I was bowling along quite happily keeping up with the flow, so no excuses. However, what has prompted this is that both the initial letter confirming the driver and the one I've just received outlining my options tell me that my alleged offence is "Speeding - exceed 50 mph for a goods vehicle"  - which of course is wrong -  I was towing a caravan and although subject to the same limits, my offence is, I believe, covered by a different section of the Road Traffic acts.  So I'm interested to know if anyone else has had this unfortunate experience and whether the same wording was used.   Is it just lazy terminology or a mistake?  I'm not trying to get out of this as even if it went to court I assume I'd have to travel to York and they would, I assume, get the charge correct when preparing the court documents.  Having committed the crime, taking the Speed Awareness Course seems to be the sensible option.

 

John M

Let’s hope you get offered a speed awareness course! Extract from webpage:

”Not every speeding offence will result in the offer of an option to attend an awareness course. In fact they're only offered if: You haven't been convicted of any other speeding offences in the past three years. You've been caught driving over 10% plus 2mph of the limit, but below 10% plus 9mph.”

unfortunately the last ticket I got from an ‘imaginatively located’ camera van in a bush near Goodwood on the A27 fell outside their criteria = 3 points. 

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Thanks to the OP for posting.

 

I've not been caught solo or with van in the UK so can't comment on the description given.  That's luck on my part though as like most people, I expect, the speed creeps up occasionally, especially on good flowing A Roads where the natural inclination is to keep up with the flow.

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I got caught solo on the M11 in Cambridgeshire by an unmarked Police car 140 Km/h whatever that is in old money, 3 points and £60 fine, I once got caught solo in Germany doing 84 Km/h in a 50 zone, that cost me 140DM and a 1 month driving ban and I've been caught by a camera in Holland towing my caravan at 70 Km'h in a 50 zone, I think that cost me 30€.

I don't think that's too bad in 31 years of driving, I very rarely speed but it appears when I do I get caught. Mrs B seems to get small speeding fines every week :angry:

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I got done by fixed camera in Suffolk with the van on the back but ||I was only doing a smidge over the limit but apparently all cameras in Suffolk and Norfolk are operational. I had to go and do the course just so I didn't get the points. It cost me £90.  I did get to spend some time with Essex's finest boy racers though.

 

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Going over 50mph on a decent 60mph road is quite common for caravans, more than likely they don't want to get caravaners a bad name by holding up traffic and don't want other drivers taking risks in passing them.

 

 

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I got an SP20 - "exceeding the speed limit for the class of vehicle" when I was done for doing 75 in a transit on a totally empty dual carriageway in Essex. The traffic car was tucked behind a lorry in a layby .Cost me 3 points and £60 about 15 years ago.

 

I do try to keep within the 10% but even then I understand that it's still exceeding the limit and I could still get nicked. I'm married to the woman who helped set up the Safety Camera Partnerships in Essex and was a consultant to several other counties in the UK so I've not really got much of an excuse:(

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Before retirement, I used to do about 1000 miles a week and never luckily got caught exceeding the speed limit, I retired nearly 20 years ago and got caught last November doing 33 mph in a 30 zone, I was offered the Speed Awareness Course at a cost of £92, I took it to save a fine and 3 points, as I thought that if I did not take it my Insurance premium would have exceeded that

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37 minutes ago, Borussia 1900 said:

I got caught solo on the M11 in Cambridgeshire by an unmarked Police car 140 Km/h whatever that is in old money, 3 points and £60 fine, I once got caught solo in Germany doing 84 Km/h in a 50 zone, that cost me 140DM and a 1 month driving ban and I've been caught by a camera in Holland towing my caravan at 70 Km'h in a 50 zone, I think that cost me 30€.

I don't think that's too bad in 31 years of driving, I very rarely speed but it appears when I do I get caught. Mrs B seems to get small speeding fines every week :angry:

I got my sole speeding ticket on Friday 8 November 1991 and I'm still annoyed with myself when I think about it! 41.2mph in a 30mph zone but on a dual carriageway that I was convinced was a 40mph limit. The somewhat sarcastic policeman said,

'If you measure the distance between the lamp posts, sir, you will find they are 27 metres, thus signifying a a 30mph zone ...'. He then told me that they were prosecuting every offender because it was part of a campaign so I would have to attend Court if I wished to make my case. The summons was processed on Friday 7th February 1992, and it cost me £36 Fine, £20 Court costs and 3 points on my licence.

I passed my Driving Test on Friday 23 June 1972 [payday, so could afford the obligatory cream cakes!].

I'm probably tempting fate by typing this, so I'll be very careful today, especially since it's a Friday when these things tend to have happened to me :P.

 

Steve

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Been driving since 17,  now 64, one speeding conviction. 42 in a 30 limit. That was in 1972 at 08:30 on a Sunday morning.

 

I was an apprentice mechanic at the time, pleaded guilty by post (couldn’t face the prospect of standing in a court) got fined £7:50. That was 1.5 times my weekly wage and it HURT a lot! 

 

Andy

 

 

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Driving two years longer Andy and no speeding convictions. Lucky I guess.

A few years ago a friend of mine got flashed by a speed camera around midnight on Hoole Road Chester, He was dropping a friend off, came back the same way and flashed again. 6 points gained in as many minutes :lol:

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7 hours ago, millerhouse12 said:

Coming back from York a few weeks ago with the caravan, I got caught by a mobile camera van.  Unusually in my limited experience, the single carriageway stretch of the A19 had fairly light traffic and I was bowling along quite happily keeping up with the flow, so no excuses. However, what has prompted this is that both the initial letter confirming the driver and the one I've just received outlining my options tell me that my alleged offence is "Speeding - exceed 50 mph for a goods vehicle"  - which of course is wrong -  I was towing a caravan and although subject to the same limits, my offence is, I believe, covered by a different section of the Road Traffic acts.  So I'm interested to know if anyone else has had this unfortunate experience and whether the same wording was used.   Is it just lazy terminology or a mistake?  I'm not trying to get out of this as even if it went to court I assume I'd have to travel to York and they would, I assume, get the charge correct when preparing the court documents.  Having committed the crime, taking the Speed Awareness Course seems to be the sensible option.

 

John M

I'd write back & tell them you weren't driving a goods vehicle, got to be worth a try.  I reckon that lawyer, is he called Mr Loophole would get you off. 

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Posted (edited)

Where will they find the money they make when they introduce the new speed control systems in new cars in 2022 and reduce the number of fines ?

 

 

Dave

 

 

 

Edited by CommanderDave

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6 minutes ago, Easy T said:

Driving two years longer Andy and no speeding convictions. Lucky I guess.

A few years ago a friend of mine got flashed by a speed camera around midnight on Hoole Road Chester, He was dropping a friend off, came back the same way and flashed again. 6 points gained in as many minutes :lol:

The camera was installed at that location, I believe, after a couple of non speed related fatalities occurred on the pedestrian crossing just before the railway bridge.

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To the OP - the legislation requires a valid NOIP to be served within 14 days of the alleged offence. If they have issued the notice on a false premise then you may have a case for the matter to be waived.  Worth a try.

 

As for me, the only speeding ticket I've had in the UK in 50 years driving  was in the early 2000s in roadworks on the notorious Wrexham bypass. I paid up and took the points. However, a few months later I got a letter from solicitors acting for North Wales Police saying that the temporary 40mph speed restriction was incorrectly imposed and all penalties were to be rescinded!  Transpires that someone with more money than most had challenged their case and won on a technicality, the nature of which meant that all the 'offences' had to be overturned.  Cost NWP a small fortune, a total waste of public money of course, but I did end up with a clean licence and my £60 back.

 

My only other miscreant behaviour was in Fuerteventura in 2011 when I was clocked at 80 kmh in a 60 junction restriction and a very pleasant Guardia Civil officer took 50 euros from me, no points of course as they aren't transferrable.

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33 minutes ago, MalH said:

To the OP - the legislation requires a valid NOIP to be served within 14 days of the alleged offence. If they have issued the notice on a false premise then you may have a case for the matter to be waived.  Worth a try.

 

As for me, the only speeding ticket I've had in the UK in 50 years driving  was in the early 2000s in roadworks on the notorious Wrexham bypass. I paid up and took the points. However, a few months later I got a letter from solicitors acting for North Wales Police saying that the temporary 40mph speed restriction was incorrectly imposed and all penalties were to be rescinded!  Transpires that someone with more money than most had challenged their case and won on a technicality, the nature of which meant that all the 'offences' had to be overturned.  Cost NWP a small fortune, a total waste of public money of course, but I did end up with a clean licence and my £60 back.

 

My only other miscreant behaviour was in Fuerteventura in 2011 when I was clocked at 80 kmh in a 60 junction restriction and a very pleasant Guardia Civil officer took 50 euros from me, no points of course as they aren't transferrable.

 

Only material errors affect the validity of a NIP - but worth a challenge when returning the NIP.

In the olden days, I was stopped for speeding with the caravan but given an old-fashioned telling off.

 

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2 hours ago, Borussia 1900 said:

I got caught solo on the M11 in Cambridgeshire by an unmarked Police car 140 Km/h whatever that is in old money, 3 points and £60 fine, I once got caught solo in Germany doing 84 Km/h in a 50 zone, that cost me 140DM and a 1 month driving ban and I've been caught by a camera in Holland towing my caravan at 70 Km'h in a 50 zone, I think that cost me 30€.

I don't think that's too bad in 31 years of driving, I very rarely speed but it appears when I do I get caught. Mrs B seems to get small speeding fines every week :angry:

 

When I was stationed in Belgium, a friend was caught doing well over 100 mph.  Went to court and was fined a very low amount of Belgian francs and was very shocked and pleased.  When he found out that fines were levied in Napoleonic francs the conversion converted the smile on his face!

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8 hours ago, millerhouse12 said:

However, what has prompted this is that both the initial letter confirming the driver and the one I've just received outlining my options tell me that my alleged offence is "Speeding - exceed 50 mph for a goods vehicle"  - which of course is wrong -  I was towing a caravan and although subject to the same limits

An interesting question and while there's nothing to be lost by highlighting that you were towing a private caravan and not driving a goods vehicle, I fear you'll still have to pay up as by towing above 50mph on a single carriageway you were speeding.

Our motorhome for some obscure reason is classed as a "Private Heavy Goods" vehicle, and while it is "heavy", there is no way that it should ever be considered a "goods vehicle". As far as I'm aware goods vehicles don't generally have three double beds, and a separate washroom with walk in shower!

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Been driving since I was 15 and now almost 70.  Picked up about 4 speeding tickets over the years, but only one in the UK and that was towing the caravan at 36mph in a 30mph.  My fault not being observant enough becoming from rural area into a village/town. 

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I would have a quick chat to a lawyer, i would imagine any mistake on the notice of prosecution would make it null and void (ask David Beckham) maybe £100 better spent than getting points or doing the speeding course. 

 

Myself i had no such luck and got two speeding tickets within a month of each other! £100 course for the first one then £100 fine and 3 points for the second one.....2 months later put the car through a hedge. Was not a good time for me and driving!

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22 minutes ago, Gordon said:

Our motorhome for some obscure reason is classed as a "Private Heavy Goods" vehicle, and while it is "heavy", there is no way that it should ever be considered a "goods vehicle". As far as I'm aware goods vehicles don't generally have three double beds, and a separate washroom with walk in shower!

 

It may be worth querying that with DVLA as some speed limits are lower for goods vehicles than private cars, specifically NSL on non-motorway roads

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I recon legal representation would get it overturned pretty quickly but charge you more than the ticket!

Considering the cost if he failed.....

Maybe just bite the bullet.

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Posted (edited)

If you have legal cover provided under any of your insurance policies - car, caravan, home - use it, the charge may be incorrectly worded so you never know your luck!

However, the offence codes for excess speed are somewhat limited and wording may not be the best. You must bear in mind that it isn't just an offence to tow a caravan over 50mph on a single carriageway, the offence is driving particular classes of vehicle over that limit which includes goods vehicles and trailers.

Edited by Legal Eagle

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1 hour ago, Black Grouse said:

It may be worth querying that with DVLA as some speed limits are lower for goods vehicles than private cars, specifically NSL on non-motorway roads

I did - ten years ago  - when I bought the first RV, and was told that it was classed as a PHGV just for road-tax purposes. Can't say I was 100% convinced but as I invariably tow a small car behind, I'm restricted to the towing limits anyway. Being under 7500kgs, when solo, I can use many of the weight-restricted roads, and of course legally drive at 70mph on motorways, not that I do because it drinks fuel too fast at speed, and it's much more relaxing to trundle along at "truck speed" because when on holiday I'm in no hurry.  

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