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Removing jockey wheel whilst towing?

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1 minute ago, Durbanite said:

Not sure, but looking at it from an entirely different aspect, if you remove the jockey wheel knowing that if the caravan detached from the towing vehicle it would then damage the road surface, would it be a criminal offence?  After all if you went to the roadway and started hacking at it more than likely you would be arrested?  Just a thought and your input is valued.

 

Why? If a tyre bursts on my car, the wheel rim will damage the road surface - since none of us does these things deliberately there's no reason to make it a criminal offence.

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4 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

Not sure, but looking at it from an entirely different aspect, if you remove the jockey wheel knowing that if the caravan detached from the towing vehicle it would then damage the road surface, would it be a criminal offence?  After all if you went to the roadway and started hacking at it more than likely you would be arrested?  Just a thought and your input is valued.

I don't think that any damage to the road surface is the issue.

If the hitch digs in at anything more than pedestrian speeds the van is likely to spin and roll, turning an unfortunate incident into a major, traffic stopping accident requiring police attendance.

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7 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

Why? If a tyre bursts on my car, the wheel rim will damage the road surface - since none of us does these things deliberately there's no reason to make it a criminal offence.

You pay road tax on the vehicle to use the road and there was no intent to have a puncture.  Removing the jockey wheel is a deliberate act.

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9 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

You pay road tax on the vehicle to use the road and there was no intent to have a puncture.  Removing the jockey wheel is a deliberate act.

You don't pay  road tax to use road anymore!

Geoff

 

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12 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

You pay road tax on the vehicle to use the road and there was no intent to have a puncture.  Removing the jockey wheel is a deliberate act.

 

Some trailers do not have a jockey wheel !!  My general purpose one tonner didn't.

 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, shipbroker said:

You don't pay  road tax to use road anymore!

Geoff

 

Okay be pedantic I will use the other disguised tax name  which is VED!  :D

1 minute ago, TedNewman said:

 

Some trailers do not have a jockey wheel !!  My general purpose one tonner didn't.

 

Therefore it cannot be a deliberate act if you remove it because it was never there in the first place!  :D  It was more of a rhetorical question than anything else.

Edited by Durbanite

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11 minutes ago, TedNewman said:

 

Some trailers do not have a jockey wheel !!  My general purpose one tonner didn't.

 

 

I don't know what age your trailer was but here's a link to explain when we need a breakaway cable or when we need a chain or a cable.

https://www.westerntowing.co.uk/blog/breakaway-cable-trailer-caravan/

 

Trailers that are not fitted with brakes require a secondary coupling, this is usually either a chain or cable which is sufficiently strong enough to continue to tow the trailer and short enough not to allow the coupling to come into contact with the ground should the trailer become detached from the towing vehicle.

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5 minutes ago, Paul_B said:

 

I don't know what age your trailer was but here's a link to explain when we need a breakaway cable or when we need a chain or a cable.

https://www.westerntowing.co.uk/blog/breakaway-cable-trailer-caravan/

 I said it did not have a jockey wheel !!  What it had was a drop down ''pad'' a bit like a steady.  But it (the trailer) was stolen from outside our house some years ago so can not give or remember exactly what it did have :Thankyou:

 

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54 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

You pay road tax on the vehicle to use the road and there was no intent to have a puncture.  Removing the jockey wheel is a deliberate act.

 

But the caravan disconnecting isn't deliberate.

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1 hour ago, TedNewman said:

 

Some trailers do not have a jockey wheel !!  My general purpose one tonner didn't.

 

 

Then it should have a skid.  Either/or.  Or both to comply.

 

John

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34 minutes ago, JCloughie said:

 

Then it should have a skid.  Either/or.  Or both to comply.

 

John

It (the trailer) was stolen from outside our house some years ago so can not give or remember exactly what it did have

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2 hours ago, Durbanite said:

Okay be pedantic I will use the other disguised tax name  which is VED!  :D

Therefore it cannot be a deliberate act if you remove it because it was never there in the first place!  :D  It was more of a rhetorical question than anything else.

 

Asking a rhetorical question whilst requesting answers is putting great strain on the meaning of 'rhetorical'!

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1 hour ago, SamD said:

 

Asking a rhetorical question whilst requesting answers is putting great strain on the meaning of 'rhetorical'!

True and I fell into the trap!  :D

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10 hours ago, Durbanite said:

Not sure, but looking at it from an entirely different aspect, if you remove the jockey wheel knowing that if the caravan detached from the towing vehicle it would then damage the road surface, would it be a criminal offence?  After all if you went to the roadway and started hacking at it more than likely you would be arrested?  Just a thought and your input is valued.

 

Speed humps get damaged all the time by trailers, likewise many junctions where there is a lot of camber. In my 7 years in the Highways dept at the LA I never heard any suggestion of any claim being made for a road surface so damaged.

 

As to my particular situation ...........

 

I moved sites today and left my now slightly modified jockey wheel assembly in place. I passed over two French village speed tables en route and...............

 

The jockey wheel grounded on both occasions!!!

 

But at least it wasn’t damaged this time,  so some  progress.

 

In the U.K. “traffic calming” humps tend to be fairly short, so once the  rear car wheels have gone over it the caravan wheels are still on the OTHER side of the hump, and the caravan therefore is level, so the front of the towhitch clears the hump. On French traffic calming they tend to be much longer, so............  when the rear wheels of the car “leave” the hump the caravan wheels are still on it. This means that the caravan is then nose down (car on the road, caravan still on the hump)   so the jockey wheel is vulnerable to grounding. It doesn’t help that my tow hitch is about 5cm lower than the recommended height. It’s the “sport” model so has lower suspension fitted and low profile tyres both of which of course lower the ride height a little. Hadn’t thought of THAT when I bought it of course ! When hitched, with the correct nose weight, the caravan is, most definitely, nose down :wub:

 

My NEXT move will be to obtain a large “spring clip” (like used to be used on rally cars to hold the bonnet down) remove just the actual jockey WHEEL and axle, so that will increase the ground clearance by half the wheels diameter but ensure that, in the event of a “separation situation” the caravan brakes will be applied and the handbrake lever will be kept off the road surface. The spring clip is to secure the axle through the carrier but make it much easier to remove/refit than having to fiddle with the split pin every time. 

 

Who said caravanning wasn't stressful? 

 

Andy

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4 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

Speed humps get damaged all the time by trailers, likewise many junctions where there is a lot of camber. In my 7 years in the Highways dept at the LA I never heard any suggestion of any claim being made for a road surface so damaged.

 

As to my particular situation ...........

 

I moved sites today and left my now slightly modified jockey wheel assembly in place. I passed over two French village speed tables en route and...............

 

The jockey wheel grounded on both occasions!!!

 

But at least it wasn’t damaged this time,  so some  progress.

 

In the U.K. “traffic calming” humps tend to be fairly short, so once the  rear car wheels have gone over it the caravan wheels are still on the OTHER side of the hump, and the caravan therefore is level, so the front of the towhitch clears the hump. On French traffic calming they tend to be much longer, so............  when the rear wheels of the car “leave” the hump the caravan wheels are still on it. This means that the caravan is then nose down (car on the road, caravan still on the hump)   so the jockey wheel is vulnerable to grounding. It doesn’t help that my tow hitch is about 5cm lower than the recommended height. It’s the “sport” model so has lower suspension fitted and low profile tyres both of which of course lower the ride height a little. Hadn’t thought of THAT when I bought it of course ! When hitched, with the correct nose weight, the caravan is, most definitely, nose down :wub:

 

My NEXT move will be to obtain a large “spring clip” (like used to be used on rally cars to hold the bonnet down) remove just the actual jockey WHEEL and axle, so that will increase the ground clearance by half the wheels diameter but ensure that, in the event of a “separation situation” the caravan brakes will be applied and the handbrake lever will be kept off the road surface. The spring clip is to secure the axle through the carrier but make it much easier to remove/refit than having to fiddle with the split pin every time. 

 

Who said caravanning wasn't stressful? 

 

Andy

 

But by removing the WHEEL you would STILL be contravening the construction and use REGULATIONS by removing residual steering,

 

You may as WELL be hung for a sheep as a lamb.

 

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Posted (edited)

I would be interested to see where in the Con &Use Regs it states that a jockey wheel is required! I accept there are Regs in respect of over run brakes, security chains and breakaway cables, along with where such cables must be affixed, but none to sure there is anything about jockey wheels being a REQUIREMENT.

 

As I have in the past I am always happy to be proven wrong OR have my knowledge base increased. 

 

Andy

 

p.s. Garden trailers don’t have jockey wheels! 

Edited by Mr Plodd

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11 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

I would be interested to see where in the Con &Use Regs it states that a jockey wheel is required! I accept there are Regs in respect of over run brakes, security chains and breakaway cables, along with where such cables must be affixed, but none to sure there is anything about jockey wheels being a REQUIREMENT.

 

As I have in the past I am always happy to be proven wrong OR have my knowledge base increased. 

 

Andy

 

p.s. Garden trailers don’t have jockey wheels! 

 

The requirement is a jockey wheel or skid to prevent the hitch digging in if the trailer detachs - you could fit a skid but I suspect that would then ground - because your towball is below the minimum legal requirement (not just a recommendation).

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7 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

The requirement is a jockey wheel or skid to prevent the hitch digging in if the trailer detachs - you could fit a skid but I suspect that would then ground - because your towball is below the minimum legal requirement (not just a recommendation).

 

I am pretty sure I measured my hitch height a while ago and I recall it was just below the RECOMMENDED minimum height according to Bailey. I didn’t actually look up the minimum LEGAL height though. So it’s the Bailey figure I am working from. (Which could be different of course) 

 

I am currently halfway down France and without a tape measure, but I will be sure to check the height of my towball VERY carefully on my return to the U.K. (or earlier if I get the chance) 

 

Its a Witter towbar with a detachable hitch, I would be most surprised if indeed the height IS incorrect, especially as all towbars must now be type approved for each vehicle. 

 If it ISvincorrect then I will be having a very interesting conversation with them! 

 

I could always argue that the jockey wheel carrier could act as a skid!!  Who’s to say it couldn’t?? 

 

Andy

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Interesting challenge here to start arguing from a solid base.

There are of course more factors affecting the height of the tow ball than those determined by the towbar maker.

 

For that "interesting conversation" should it be needed, quite how does one go about determining the parameters like the vehicle's correct suspension,  rear and front tyre deflections? It gets all a bit complicated for us who don't have all the design info IMO to know who is to "blame" and requires the axles loaded correctly as these affect deflection and vehicle attitude. As mooted, quite a challenge to know where any blame lays.

 

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8 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

I am pretty sure I measured my hitch height a while ago and I recall it was just below the RECOMMENDED minimum height according to Bailey. I didn’t actually look up the minimum LEGAL height though. So it’s the Bailey figure I am working from. (Which could be different of course) 

 

I am currently halfway down France and without a tape measure, but I will be sure to check the height of my towball VERY carefully on my return to the U.K. (or earlier if I get the chance) 

 

Its a Witter towbar with a detachable hitch, I would be most surprised if indeed the height IS incorrect, especially as all towbars must now be type approved for each vehicle. 

 If it ISvincorrect then I will be having a very interesting conversation with them! 

 

I could always argue that the jockey wheel carrier could act as a skid!!  Who’s to say it couldn’t?? 

 

Andy

If you're passing the Vendee, Andy, drop in. I've got 2 tape measures [cheaper, and more useful than 2 Jags ...]. Which are are you moving on to? We're always on the lookout for new sites and/or regions!

Steve

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Ideally caravans ought to have some sort of skid fitted to comply with the regulations from the factory, something like a mini roller under the hitch.

  I made a skid from a old leaf spring for my trailer, well it was made to raise the hitch and make it easy for a one man push  without it digging in.

Both my Peugeots towed low, the 405 had Monroe level lights fitted and I fitted estate/van springs to the 406, both solved the jockey wheel problem.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, marchie1053 said:

If you're passing the Vendee, Andy, drop in. I've got 2 tape measures [cheaper, and more useful than 2 Jags ...]. Which are are you moving on to? We're always on the lookout for new sites and/or regions!

Steve

 

I typed a long response and it’s all disappeared, off out for the day so will return later.

 

Andy

Edited by Mr Plodd

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still not sure what to do here possibly may reduce the size of the jockey wheel as the main issue is the fact that the wheel could possibly come up slightly higher but it does have the "lip" of the drawbar plastic frame to contend with . the Srento is the new style one 65 plate but with standard suspension and a detactable tow bar if that helps at all - guess i could try to get bigger springs installed on the back?

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Can’t say I have suffered the problems others have had either with grounding or with the clamp loosening allowing the wheel to drop.

 

However.  I appreciate that dropping has happened to some and could easily happen.  So leaving today for our French trip I added this simple security device.

 

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0OoRpmNhKGWPhUqY2996DAXlg#Hardwicke,_England

 

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0N7LPhOA48pKYZwMSujfLrCVg#Hardwicke,_England

 

In the pictures I have set it up for 3 trips, just tighten the bottom tie before setting off and it should be enough to stop the wheel dropping.  Only problem is a pair of snips or something is needed on arrival.

 

John

 

PS sorry for the links.  CT won’t let me upload the pictures and I can’t work out how to reduce the size on an iPad.

 

John

 

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My jockey wheel assembly most definitely does NOT drop a single MM.  

 

Andy

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