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Hi, Could anyone give me the axle nut torque setting please for my Gobur Carousel 12/2 tds. It has a 27 mm castellated nut with a split pin. I am not sure of the date of the unit, it could be 1988 or 1991. Please see the A-frame plate details below.

 

On A-frame Plate

 

Model 12/2 SP

Gross Weight: 915 KG

Net Weight: 700 KG

Date of Manufacture: 8891

 

The identification number on the wheel hub/drum is 2.38.266.00.01.04 which points to a German company called BPW.

 

I will be changing the brake shoes, and any other information regarding this work would be appreciated, e.g. suppliers and wheel nut torques. Any diagrammes and other printed matter would be ideal.

 

Thank you for any help you can give.

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AFAIK there isn't a torque setting for castellated nuts. The nut is done up tightly with a spanner and then backed off to the first available slot to allow fitting of the split pin.

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13 hours ago, Banjo said:

 It has a 27 mm castellated nut with a split pin.  ................................................................and wheel nut torques.

 

 

With respect - I don't think you should be attempting a job as important as changing the brake shoes.   Split pins and wheel torques just don't go together.   The idea of the split pin is to hold the nut in position since there is no torque on it.

The nut should only be tightened sufficiently to slightly impair the turning of the hub and then the nut should be backed off 30 degrees then fixed with a new split pin.  

Sorry to dampen your enthusiasm.

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John Wickersham's Caravan book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Caravan-Manual-John-Wickersham/dp/1844256782 will give you the details on changing/adjusting brakes on your age of caravan.  

Check out your local Library for copies.  Cheaper than buying one.

 

I got one from my Library when I started caravanning, to allow me to know how to do all sorts of things.  (That was 26 or so years ago when many did such things themselves.)

 

http://goburcaravans.co.uk/product-category/carousel/slimline/slimline-122t/ may be able to advise on wheel nut/bolt torque settings.

Edited by Rodders53
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Quickest way to get information is to telephone Gobur on 01263 860031 and ask for Richard Moss or Steve. They may be able to provide a copy of the handbook [it's just a Word document with good, basic details, no fancy photos or line drawings, apart from the wiring schematic diagram].

We bought a 2008 Carousel 12/2T in late August 2018 direct from Gobur but I don't know whether specifications changed over the years.

 

Steve

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With respect Jaydug, I have been driving for over 50 years and in that time, I have done the majority of the mechanical work in my cars and vans. Even to stripping down my brakes, refitting new disks and pads, pressing out my own bearings, refitting them and fitting new shoes and pads. There isn't many jobs that I haven't done on a car, e.g. fitting new clutches, fitting new pistons and piston rings, etc. I have never had any problems with the work I have done, but I have had several problems with the work I have had done by professionals.


 

You mention “The idea of the split pin is to hold the nut in position since there is no torque on it.” I would argue differently, see below,


 

A dictionary definition of Torque, in the subject of Mechanics, is: “ a force that tends to cause rotation.”


 

Wilkipedia states:

“Castellated nuts are used in low-torque applications, such as holding a wheel bearing in place” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castellated_nut

 

Using finger tight pressure to turn/tighten a nut is a torque, even though it would not register on a car torque wrench, but it is still a torque. Any person using this phraseology would instantly recognise what is meant.

 

You mention: “ I don't think you should be attempting a job as important as changing the brake shoes.” That is your opinion, what do you base that on? A few questions would have given you more about my experience.

 

It is because I believe in safety, especially when doing work on brakes, I seek as much information on the subject as possible. As I have never worked on this caravan model I need to know 100 per cent that nothing was any different to what I have done before. If things were different, I would incorporate it in my work and then I would know that all was safe. Even if I already know 90 per cent of the information, I don't attack the contributors for offering help; at least they are being constructive and positive. Even if they make a mistake I don't jump to conclusions about their ability and tell them where they have gone wrong. I am grateful for their input. I think that with the many years of working on my cars, my family cars and my friends' cars, I can ignore your comment on competency.

 

One thing that I was hoping for, that I can't get off the Internet, including the manufactures site, is printed material for my caravan.

 

With respect, I am sorry to dampen your enthusiasm.

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Onewheelonmywag

Rodders53

Marchie1053 (Steve)

 

Thank you, everyone, for your valuable contributions. I really appreciate you spending the time to help out with my problem. Things do change and when neighbours tell me my caravan has a high torque, even though I question the remarks, I have to check things out for safety.

 

I will be acting on some of your information and this has helped a lot.


The reasons I haven't approached the company direct, is,

  • I am not a customer of Gobur,
  • Just a DIYer.
  • If all Gobur owners telephoned them for little bits of information, they would be giving away lots of free information, and this could impact on their business in time and work.

Thank you again for your welcomed contributions, I am truly grateful.

 

John
 

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15 hours ago, Banjo said:

With respect Jaydug, I have been driving for over 50 years and in that time, I have done the majority of the mechanical work in my cars and vans. Even to stripping down my brakes, refitting new disks and pads, pressing out my own bearings, refitting them and fitting new shoes and pads. There isn't many jobs that I haven't done on a car, e.g. fitting new clutches, fitting new pistons and piston rings, etc. I have never had any problems with the work I have done, but I have had several problems with the work I have had done by professionals.

You mention “The idea of the split pin is to hold the nut in position since there is no torque on it.” I would argue differently, see below,

A dictionary definition of Torque, in the subject of Mechanics, is: “ a force that tends to cause rotation.”

Wilkipedia states:

“Castellated nuts are used in low-torque applications, such as holding a wheel bearing in place” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castellated_nut

Using finger tight pressure to turn/tighten a nut is a torque, even though it would not register on a car torque wrench, but it is still a torque. Any person using this phraseology would instantly recognise what is meant.

You mention: “ I don't think you should be attempting a job as important as changing the brake shoes.” That is your opinion, what do you base that on? A few questions would have given you more about my experience.

It is because I believe in safety, especially when doing work on brakes, I seek as much information on the subject as possible. As I have never worked on this caravan model I need to know 100 per cent that nothing was any different to what I have done before. If things were different, I would incorporate it in my work and then I would know that all was safe. Even if I already know 90 per cent of the information, I don't attack the contributors for offering help; at least they are being constructive and positive. Even if they make a mistake I don't jump to conclusions about their ability and tell them where they have gone wrong. I am grateful for their input. I think that with the many years of working on my cars, my family cars and my friends' cars, I can ignore your comment on competency.

One thing that I was hoping for, that I can't get off the Internet, including the manufactures site, is printed material for my caravan.

With respect, I am sorry to dampen your enthusiasm.

4

 

Oh dear! I’ve caused offence and you’ve got the bit between your teeth.     Thank you for spending time researching the subject of ‘Torque’.     What you’ve found is all true, however in the real world, to ask advice about the torque figure of say a sensor which might be as low as 3 lbs or an Alko hub nut as high as 214 is understandable.     But when asked about the torque figure for an axle nut which is no more than around finger tight, did lead me to wonder about the capabilities of the enquirer.     As for interrogating you about your mechanical ability, that was hardly my place.     Had I done so, you really would have had cause to climb aboard your high horse.

Clearly, I made a mistake and am sorry that I offended you.     As you say, you are not without experience.     Like yourself, I too have always been a keen DIYer – probably for quite a bit longer than your own 50 years.:D

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On 17/05/2019 at 23:28, onewheelonmywagon said:

AFAIK there isn't a torque setting for castellated nuts. The nut is done up tightly with a spanner and then backed off to the first available slot to allow fitting of the split pin.

 

 

Ah! Onewheelonmywagon now makes sense.

 

 

:ph34r:

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Hi, JayDug, I'm sure you have been waiting eagerly for my reply. Sorry for the delay, I have been ill.


 

On your last post, you say. “Oh dear! I’ve caused offence and you’ve got the bit between your teeth.”

It's Interesting that you’d say that, how do you mean? I thought that this was a forum to exchange ideas and that means using the truth and engaging in healthy debate.


 

I'm sure that you will agree that condescending people will ruin a forum. People, especially the ones who want help will be afraid to post questions by being afraid of someone making them look foolish.


 

JayDug, I would probably agree with all the conclusions that you have made, if I had looked at the problems from your perspective. A pity that you have based them on faulty comprehension, on wrong interpretations or you have rewritten my words in a different way to the words I used and changed the meaning. I can imagine you reading this and saying: WHAT?


 

Check it out. Take for instance; Why did you say?

“...in the real world, to ask advice about the torque figure of say a sensor which might be as low as 3 lbs or an Alko hub nut as high as 214 is understandable.     But when asked about the torque figure for an axle nut which is no more than around finger tight, did lead me to wonder about the capabilities of the enquirer.”


 

Where did you get this from? I did not ask for any Torque figure. Check my original post. I said, “Could anyone give me the axle nut torque setting please.”

Definition of setting. “...the manner, position, or direction in which something is set.” https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/setting


 

Combine torque and setting and you could rephrase what I said and meant as: “Could anyone give me the actual process of how the axle nut is turned in order to set it up.” Not a request for a torque wrench setting. My choice of words was used intentionally because I was 99 per cent sure that the axle nut was not very tight.


 

Next, tell me if I'm wrong, JayDug when you say:


 

“But when asked about the torque figure for an axle nut which is no more than around finger tight, did lead me to wonder about the capabilities of the enquirer.”


 

There must be several different methods of setting the torque settings, for example, the method given by one well-known caravan engineer who uses a torque figure, as you put it, on castellated nuts with split pins. is as follows:


 

“...2.Withdraw the split pin from the castellated nut” (Then on re-assembly) “...1. Tighten the nut with a torque wrench to between 30 – 35Nm” (Then, keeping in mind copy-write protection, you have to back it off a number of degrees, then you have to retighten the nut a smaller number of degrees.). P49 The Caravan Manual (3rd Edition) John Wickersham.

This gentleman is well-known in the caravan industry. He also gives a method to use without a torque wrench. How do you explain this gentleman's torque wrench method? Doesn't this go against your argument? How would you explain this with your quotation above about the capabilities of the enquirer and what does it say about the capabilities of the person making the statement?

Next, you said:

“As for interrogating you about your mechanical ability, that was hardly my place.     Had I done so, you really would have had cause to climb aboard your high horse.”

Again it's Interesting that you’d say this, how do you mean? Who mentioned interrogation? I never mentioned anything about interrogation; this is what I said, “A few questions would have given you more about my experience.” I am sure that you wouldn't want me to tell you how to frame a few questions politely and to let a person know that you had his/her best interests in mind. I would not mind if you were polite. If you think that your method of questioning would give me cause to climb on my “high horse,” then perhaps that answers a lot about your present replies. If you were not sure of anything, isn't it best to find out more before making statements based on wrong premises/opinions or simply jump to conclusions


 

Next, you say: “Had I done so, you really would have had cause to climb aboard your high horse.”

I wouldn't call myself as being on a high horse. I would call it defending my position in a forum debate. I have seen you post on a similar matter, JayDug and you gave a good reply. On the same post topic, other members of the forum who were condescending to someone who placed a post similar to mine were castigated by other forum members. I don't think that I need to tell you, people need encouragement to use forums and not to expect being made to look like fools. This is especially true for younger and more inexperienced people. You did good work on the previous post, carry on JayDug.


 

I could say a lot more, but I think I would be wasting my time.

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Whoa there Banjo!!!

 

Jaydug tried to help you, his comments were, in my view, pretty reasonable so how about getting down off you high horse. Get a good nights sleep and afterwards review what YOU have fired off?  And THEN composing a less, shall we say “emotional”  response to Jaydug? 

 

Andy

 

p.s. As someone who is a trained mechanic, albeit a good few years ago, my interpretation of  YOUR words

 

 “Could anyone give me the axle nut torque setting please.”

 

Would be that you are asking to what torque setting you should set  your torque wrench to in order to tighten the axle nut. It’s difficult to see how it could be interpreted in any other way. 

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Experience is an awful teacher who ends up sending you simply horrifying bills

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6 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

Whoa there Banjo!!!

 

Jaydug tried to help you, his comments were, in my view, pretty reasonable so how about getting down off you high horse. Get a good nights sleep and afterwards review what YOU have fired off?  And THEN composing a less, shall we say “emotional”  response to Jaydug? 

 

Andy

 

p.s. As someone who is a trained mechanic, albeit a good few years ago, my interpretation of  YOUR words

 

 “Could anyone give me the axle nut torque setting please.”

 

Would be that you are asking to what torque setting you should set  your torque wrench to in order to tighten the axle nut. It’s difficult to see how it could be interpreted in any other way. 

 

Thank you Mr  Plodd. I am willing to listen to any reply.

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Phew!

 

Quote: I could say a lot more, but I think I would be wasting my time.

 

I’m glad it was you that said that and not me.:)

As I said on Sunday, I’m sorry if my reply offended you, however as I interpreted your question, I would have to give you the same reply.

Yes! I am familiar with the late John Wickersham. I happen to own a first edition of his manual written some 27 years ago. And also a copy of his last edition. The figures you quote are correct. You didn’t mention the bit about then loosening the nut by 90 degrees before inserting the split pin. He then goes on to say that if you don’t have a torque wrench just replace the nut together with the wheel, then tightening the hub nut until there is no perceptible shake.

But if you knew all this, I’m left wondering why you needed to ask the question which you asked in the first post.

  

As I’ve already said,  it was not my intention to offend.   I have nothing else to add to the topic so maybe time to draw a line and move on.

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Thanks, JayDug, I accept your apology and I don't hold a grudge.


 

With respect, I have a few points to make to straighten things up. Please don't take this personal.


 

My last reply was in answer to your previous reply, i.e. taking each comment of yours and defending my position. I have only done what you have done by you replying to my posts, so how can that be wrong?


 

As far as the John Wickersham manual is concerned, I have just received it from a friend. I did not have it when I wrote the post. In addition, I did not write the full details of the torque settings you mentioned, for example, 180 degrees back and 90 degrees forward, because, of copy-write protection. If you notice I wrote in my post:


 

“30 – 35Nm” (Then, keeping in mind copy-write protection, you have to back it off a number of degrees, then you have to re-tighten the nut a smaller number of degrees.).”


 

I appreciated that you would give an answer to any question the way that you interpret it, which should be no problem to anyone including me if put in a polite manner. I would do exactly the same and I would have thanked you for it, even if it was wrong. When posts require it, my reply would be to correct any error in interpretation in a debate format, which is the function of a forum. It was, however, the tone of your posts that I had a problem with, which, you have apologised. Thank you JayDug.


 

Thank you to all the positive replies to my post, I do appreciate the time and effort that you have gone to in order to help a fellow caravanner.

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I must admit I would take note of JayDug, he's a vast amount of experience and has probably forgotten more than most know.

Coming from the motor trade I also have a lot of experience, however when it comes to brakes both on the car and caravan I get a qualified chap to look at them, I used to do them when I worked in the garage and now know enough to let someone who is qualified to todays standards.

How much would it cost to defend yourself in court in the event of a fatal accident which they said was contributed to by a brake or mechanical failing of the wheel.  I have the same attitude to towbar fitting.

I'm waiting for a caravan repair chap to service my caravan brakes as I type (and motor mover), I do my own servicing but like a second opinion ever couple of years.

 

Remember the words "no win no fee" while you tighten the bearing :)

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On 17/05/2019 at 21:00, Banjo said:

Hi, Could anyone give me the axle nut torque setting please for my Gobur Carousel 12/2 tds. It has a 27 mm castellated nut with a split pin. I am not sure of the date of the unit, it could be 1988 or 1991. Please see the A-frame plate details below.

 

On A-frame Plate

 

Model 12/2 SP

Gross Weight: 915 KG

Net Weight: 700 KG

Date of Manufacture: 8891

 

The identification number on the wheel hub/drum is 2.38.266.00.01.04 which points to a German company called BPW.

 

I will be changing the brake shoes, and any other information regarding this work would be appreciated, e.g. suppliers and wheel nut torques. Any diagrammes and other printed matter would be ideal.

 

Thank you for any help you can give.

Would this help?  

 

Retirement, the best job I've ever had. The only problem is, I don't get a day off.

You know you're an intellectual when you hear The William Tell Overture and you don't think of the Lone Ranger.

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17 hours ago, Flat_at said:

 

 

 

 

Wouldn't you think if you thought you were sufficiently qualified to present a vehicle maintenance video, you would turn up with a decent tool kit, rather than a plumber's pipe grip? :ph34r:

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39 minutes ago, Jaydug said:

 

Wouldn't you think if you thought you were sufficiently qualified to present a vehicle maintenance video, you would turn up with a decent tool kit, rather than a plumber's pipe grip? :ph34r:

Not all cowboys ride horses  ;)

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Retirement, the best job I've ever had. The only problem is, I don't get a day off.

You know you're an intellectual when you hear The William Tell Overture and you don't think of the Lone Ranger.

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45 minutes ago, Jaydug said:

 

Wouldn't you think if you thought you were sufficiently qualified to present a vehicle maintenance video, you would turn up with a decent tool kit, rather than a plumber's pipe grip? :ph34r:

When I was on the tools, it made me cringe if I saw other "trades people" use pipe grips on chrome fittings.

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