BE licence

[Coastline]

My daughter wants to have caravan so she get away at weekends how can she get a BE licence and can she tow a very small without a BE licence?

[Woodentop]

On a B only she can drive a maximum train weight of 3500Kg BUT it is the plated weight of the tug and the MTPLM of the caravan, NOT the actual weights that count.

Look of the www.gov.uk web site for more info.

There are plenty of smallish caravans around at the right price (go have a look at Highbridge to start - not too far away) and then she needs to make sure she has a suitable tug. The guideline is a minimum of 40bhp per tonne of total train weight, and at least at the start the MTPM of the caravan should not exceed about 85% of the the kerb weight of the towing vehicle.

[CommanderDave]

Without b+e she can drive a outfit with a PLATED GVW for the car and the Mtplm for the caravan not adding up to over 3500 kg .

 

 

 

Dave

[tom_1989]

lots of combinations do not require a B+E, as already been said the car and caravan maximum plated weights can not be over 3500kg but this allows for a decent size car and caravan. 

 

What car does you daughter have?

[Black Grouse]

8 minutes ago, tom_1989 said:

lots of combinations do not require a B+E, as already been said the car and caravan maximum plated weights can not be over 3500kg but this allows for a decent size car and caravan. 

 

What car does you daughter have?

 

Agreed - a hypothetical car with 140bhp, kerbweight of 1600kg, payload of 550kg, so gross weight 2150kg could tow a caravan with 1350kg MTPLM on a B-only licence

[Cheltenham Caravanner]

Answering the other part of the original question : Your daughter will need to take another driving test which includes towing to get the "E" licence.  

 

There are specialist driving schools which can assist with this. Search for B+E training and your location to find one.  

[mrchiggles]

As others have said, plenty of combos that don’t need the licence - we happily drove our C4 Picasso and an old van plus more recently our new 1300kg  mplm mass van. Wife wanted an epace though so BandE test had to be done.

 

Its expensive though so I’d try to avoid if possible 

[Stevan]

It is a pity, but the 3,500Kg limit is probably the worst possible figure for the caravan industry, being pretty much bang on the plated weights for an average outfit!

At 3,000 Kg only true lightweight outfits would be under the limit, meaning that B+E would be virtually mandatory for towing or at 4,500Kg only true heavyweights would need it!

[Coastline]

Thanks everyone, my next job is help her find cheap decent caravan, I sail for Santander on 28th so have little time to find something.

[Black Grouse]

17 minutes ago, Stevan said:

It is a pity, but the 3,500Kg limit is probably the worst possible figure for the caravan industry, being pretty much bang on the plated weights for an average outfit!

At 3,000 Kg only true lightweight outfits would be under the limit, meaning that B+E would be virtually mandatory for towing or at 4,500Kg only true heavyweights would need it!

 

The whole point of imposing a limit is that only lighter outfits qualify.

 

Licencing limits take no regard of changing fashions where cars and caravans get heavier with all the extra equipment demanded by customers.

 

 

[CommanderDave]

4 hours ago, Black Grouse said:

 

The whole point of imposing a limit is that only lighter outfits qualify.

 

Licencing limits take no regard of changing fashions where cars and caravans get heavier with all the extra equipment demanded by customers.

 

 

 

I think drivers are lucky the regulations allow people to still tow a trailer with no training on a b licence as a the +E test only covers hitching and basic reversing instruction ?

 

 

 

Dave

[mrchiggles]

6 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

 

I think drivers are lucky the regulations allow people to still tow a trailer with no training on a b licence as a the +E test only covers hitching and basic reversing instruction ?

 

 

 

Dave

And all your other basic driving test things, i.e no bad habits have developed in the meantime!

[Mr Plodd]

 

 

6 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

 

I think drivers are lucky the regulations allow people to still tow a trailer with no training on a b licence as a the +E test only covers hitching and basic reversing instruction ?

 

Dave

 

Err no!

 

The E test  most definitely DOES  involve driving the rig on the road and the standard required is (quite rightly) much higher than the basic driving test. The trailer must be of a certain size AND most importantly a certain (fairly high) weight. I am also pretty certain that the test cannot be taken using a caravan either! 

 

Andy

 

 

[mrchiggles]

11 hours ago, Black Grouse said:

 

The whole point of imposing a limit is that only lighter outfits qualify.

 

Licencing limits take no regard of changing fashions where cars and caravans get heavier with all the extra equipment demanded by customers.

 

 

And safety equipment demanded by the crash testing bodies. Time for limits to be looked at or the sneaky extra entitlement that applies to some other countries in Europe applied here too

[CommanderDave]

22 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

 

 

Err no!

 

The E test  most definitely DOES  involve driving the rig on the road and the standard required is (quite rightly) much higher than the basic driving test. The trailer must be of a certain size AND most importantly a certain (fairly high) weight. I am also pretty certain that the test cannot be taken using a caravan either! 

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

You are legally allowed to tow a trailer on the road then you have to take a towing test ? 

 

 

Bolting the stable door after the horse is bolted I think ?  Surely a towing test should be to allow a person to tow a trailer and understand the legal requirements .

 

 

Dave

[Jiffy176]

55 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

 

 

Err no!

 

The E test  most definitely DOES  involve driving the rig on the road and the standard required is (quite rightly) much higher than the basic driving test. The trailer must be of a certain size AND most importantly a certain (fairly high) weight. I am also pretty certain that the test cannot be taken using a caravan either! 

 

Andy

 

 

Correct, my misspent youth on two wheels meant I needed to do my BE. It involves an unhitch, hitch, reverse, then a 45 minute drive to full text standard, bad habits not included. Fun it was not. You used to be able to use a caravan but now the size of trailer is mandated as is the weight.

[FrankBullet]

Whilst I appreciate many people seem to want to drag a Gin Palace around we have a family car (Passat Estate) and a family van (Pursuit 430/4, upgraded to 1300MTPLM) which is 3370kg GTW.

 

Its really not that difficult to stay under 3500kg, it’s hardly limited to a Fiat 500 and an Eriba Puck!

[Stevan]

16 minutes ago, FrankBullet said:

Whilst I appreciate many people seem to want to drag a Gin Palace around we have a family car (Passat Estate) and a family van (Pursuit 430/4, upgraded to 1300MTPLM) which is 3370kg GTW.

 

Its really not that difficult to stay under 3500kg, it’s hardly limited to a Fiat 500 and an Eriba Puck!

My point exactly! A very average size car and a very average size caravan puts you within 130Kg of the limit.

Quite why your outfit can be driven on an ordinary B licence, but even a modest increase to the car would require the +E test despite being no real difference to drive!

[Mr Plodd]

6 hours ago, Stevan said:

My point exactly! A very average size car and a very average size caravan puts you within 130Kg of the limit.

Quite why your outfit can be driven on an ordinary B licence, but even a modest increase to the car would require the +E test despite being no real difference to drive!

 

Because a limit must be set at some point. What’s the difference between someone on their 17 th birthday and someone 16 yrs and 364 days?  One can legally drive a car, the other cannot, no one turns a switch at midnight for them do they? Or 30mph and 31 mph? There must be a cut off point somewhere and there will always be anomalies. 

 

It’s the same with HGV licensing. You need an HGV licence to drive anything exceeding 7500kg, but you can buy a truck that leaves the factory plated at 7750  (so requires an HGV licence) and then have it DOWN plated by 760kg to 7490kg so you then  no longer need an HGV licence! It’s an identical vehicle, it just has a lower plated weight! It’s a fairly common practice amongst hauliers who have to move things that have high bulk but low weight, like toilet rolls. They need the volume but not the weight carrying capacity. 

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest]

Anyone wondering what the B&E test involves, including training, size of trailer etc, just search for it on YouTube, there are lots of videos covering the subject.

[Mr Plodd]

I have a good friend who does B+E training with his own Honda CRV and suitable trailer in West Dorset (details available on request) 

 

The tales he tells of some of the tests his clients have failed are worrying. Bearing in mind they have had professional training............. One “forgot” the trailer and when they turned left the trailer mounted the pavement almost wiping out a pedestrian, another failed to release the trailer brake before trying to drive off TWICE on successive tests! Apparently a VERY common failure involves the candidate forgetting the trailers weight and overshooting stop lines and traffic lights/stop signs. 

 

Remember these people gave already had a couple of days professional training and KNOW they are on a test yet still they get it that wrong!

 

worrying eh??

 

Andy

 

P.S. He still has something like a 90% pass rate at first test so not everyone is that bad! 

[Black Grouse]

10 hours ago, mrchiggles said:

And safety equipment demanded by the crash testing bodies. Time for limits to be looked at or the sneaky extra entitlement that applies to some other countries in Europe applied here too

 

Caravans aren't crash tested - the weight increase is solely due to extra equipment deemed essential by many buyers.

[Stevan]

56 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

Caravans aren't crash tested - the weight increase is solely due to extra equipment deemed essential by many buyers.

Much of the weight increase actually comes from extra length! When we started, many vans were 12 ft long, even for 4/5 berth, with 14ft being considered a fairly large van, now 16 to 18 ft ft is commonplace even for couples without kids.

[Durbanite]

9 hours ago, FrankBullet said:

Whilst I appreciate many people seem to want to drag a Gin Palace around we have a family car (Passat Estate) and a family van (Pursuit 430/4, upgraded to 1300MTPLM) which is 3370kg GTW.

 

Its really not that difficult to stay under 3500kg, it’s hardly limited to a Fiat 500 and an Eriba Puck!

A lot depends on the gross maximum weight of the car as that will determine the size of caravan you can tow on a B licence.

[Black Grouse]

44 minutes ago, Stevan said:

Much of the weight increase actually comes from extra length! When we started, many vans were 12 ft long, even for 4/5 berth, with 14ft being considered a fairly large van, now 16 to 18 ft ft is commonplace even for couples without kids.

 

The extra length does add a little extra weight - but it's what goes into that extra length that really adds the weight - microwaves, fridge-freezers, wet heating, etc