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Wellys and Mac

My Weights, an insight

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2 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

Never EVER came across, or even heard of, that situation in the best part of 30 years as a traffic cop. 

 

I am currently shopping around for caravan insurance and one of the policy booklets contains the following exclusion: "What is NOT covered... - Towing Your Caravan if Your Caravan exceeds the manufacturers recommended kerb/towing weight."

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2 hours ago, DACS said:

I am currently shopping around for caravan insurance and one of the policy booklets contains the following exclusion: "What is NOT covered... - Towing Your Caravan if Your Caravan exceeds the manufacturers recommended kerb/towing weight."

 

So do they mean the towing vehicle manufacturer or the caravan manufacturer? It’s not clearly defined so could be easily argued both ways. 

Kerb weight? Not defined anywhere by caravan manufacturer is it? So why have they decide to use it?

Towing weight? It’s the TOWING vehicle that may have a restriction but not the caravan.

Very sloppy wording indeed that they would have a HUGE problem with IF it ever came to a disputed court case for the simple reason it’s totally ambiguous. 

 

Had they put “Towing your caravan if IT exceeds the manufacturers defined maximum weight” then it would very clear., but for some reason they haven’t and choose to use “recommended” instead, I wonder why?

 

Insurers are always VERY careful indeed as to the VERY EXACT AND PRECISE wording they use, yet the above is (as I have shown) more Woolly than a sheep, which would make it pretty worthless in the event of a dispute. 

 

Andy

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

So do they mean the towing vehicle manufacturer or the caravan manufacturer? It’s not clearly defined so could be easily argued both ways. 

Kerb weight? Not defined anywhere by caravan manufacturer is it? So why have they decide to use it?

Towing weight? It’s the TOWING vehicle that may have a restriction but not the caravan.

Very sloppy wording indeed that they would have a HUGE problem with IF it ever came to a disputed court case for the simple reason it’s totally ambiguous. 

 

Had they put “Towing your caravan if IT exceeds the manufacturers defined maximum weight” then it would very clear., but for some reason they haven’t and choose to use “recommended” instead, I wonder why?

 

Insurers are always VERY careful indeed as to the VERY EXACT AND PRECISE wording they use, yet the above is (as I have shown) more Woolly than a sheep, which would make it pretty worthless in the event of a dispute. 

 

Andy

When I bought new, the dealer wouldnt sell it to me until he had done the Tow Check thing.

Perhaps the gobally gook wording relates to that?

I notice the * so what is the footnote?

 

Ps hows Holland? Weather here in Norfolk not that good, better than forecasted but still a caravan stay in day.

Edited by Wellys and Mac

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36 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

So do they mean the towing vehicle manufacturer or the caravan manufacturer? It’s not clearly defined so could be easily argued both ways. 

Kerb weight? Not defined anywhere by caravan manufacturer is it? So why have they decide to use it?

Towing weight? It’s the TOWING vehicle that may have a restriction but not the caravan.

Very sloppy wording indeed that they would have a HUGE problem with IF it ever came to a disputed court case for the simple reason it’s totally ambiguous. 

 

Had they put “Towing your caravan if IT exceeds the manufacturers defined maximum weight” then it would very clear., but for some reason they haven’t and choose to use “recommended” instead, I wonder why?

 

Insurers are always VERY careful indeed as to the VERY EXACT AND PRECISE wording they use, yet the above is (as I have shown) more Woolly than a sheep, which would make it pretty worthless in the event of a dispute. 

 

Andy

 

Well put Mr. Plodd. Obviously the insurance company's legal department didn't have a say in the formulation of that exclusion.

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39 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

So do they mean the towing vehicle manufacturer or the caravan manufacturer? It’s not clearly defined so could be easily argued both ways. 

Kerb weight? Not defined anywhere by caravan manufacturer is it? So why have they decide to use it?

Towing weight? It’s the TOWING vehicle that may have a restriction but not the caravan.

Very sloppy wording indeed that they would have a HUGE problem with IF it ever came to a disputed court case for the simple reason it’s totally ambiguous. 

 

Had they put “Towing your caravan if IT exceeds the manufacturers defined maximum weight” then it would very clear., but for some reason they haven’t and choose to use “recommended” instead, I wonder why?

 

Insurers are always VERY careful indeed as to the VERY EXACT AND PRECISE wording they use, yet the above is (as I have shown) more Woolly than a sheep, which would make it pretty worthless in the event of a dispute. 

 

Andy

 

Cars have recommended towing limit weights, but no law is broken unless the rigs overall Gross Train Weight limit is exceeded. Caravans on the other hand have MTPLM's and that is a legal weight limit. So if an insurer is talking about a 'recommended' limit it could be interpreted as being the car's towing limit that they're referring to and not the caravan's legally absolute limit.

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Posted (edited)

.... and the term 'kerbweight' isn't even mentioned in any legislation relating to what one is allowed to tow, so I don't see it's relevance. Besides, it's not even documented anywhere so where do they get their information regarding kerbweight from?

Edited by Lutz

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2 minutes ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

 

Cars have recommended towing limit weights, but no law is broken unless the rigs overall Gross Train Weight limit is exceeded. Caravans on the other hand have MTPLM's and that is a legal weight limit. So if an insurer is talking about a 'recommended' limit it could be interpreted as boing the car's towing limit but not the caravan's absolute limit..

 

The important word you have used is “interpreted” and that opens the door to all sorts of argument. That is why insurers normally  are very very careful to word their policy/terms and conditions to ensure there can be NO doubt as to the exact meaning! 

 

In the instance quoted by DACS the wording is, as I pointed out, exceedingly vague which is totally against insurers normal practice.

 

Andy

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4 hours ago, DACS said:

I am currently shopping around for caravan insurance and one of the policy booklets contains the following exclusion: "What is NOT covered... - Towing Your Caravan if Your Caravan exceeds the manufacturers recommended kerb/towing weight."

 

Another variant DACS.

 

20190508_171833.thumb.png.3e8ea15198c3d686963d8985dd7cf742.png

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Griff said:

 

Another variant DACS.

 

20190508_171833.thumb.png.3e8ea15198c3d686963d8985dd7cf742.png

 

 

The last one is what I was eluding to.

 

I couldn't give the dealer the money until I had done the Tow Check process, bored you have no idea.

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Posted (edited)

There again, where do they get the vehicle's kerbweight figure from? It's not documented anywhere. As Mr Plodd says, insurance companies are normally very particular and precise so any kerbweight figure would have to be exact, but there is no accurate source of kerbweight because no manufacturer is under any obligation to publish it. Besides, the kerbweight may have changed since the car left the factory, such as due to fitment of a towbar, etc.. (Note: Kerbweight is not defined as an ex works figure)

 

Edited by Lutz

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Still, maybe best pick and insurer without any such clause then not be in the position of having it bought up and have to go through the extra aggravation of arguing the toss in the event of a claim.

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4 minutes ago, Griff said:

Still, maybe best pick and insurer without any such clause then not be in the position of having it bought up and have to go through the extra aggravation of arguing the toss in the event of a claim.

 

Or choose not to tow above 100%

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38 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

Or choose not to tow above 100%

 

But 100% of what figure?

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9 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

 

Police and dvsa use weight pads which are accurate .

https://www.scalesmart.com/wwsck12-axle-weighing-pad-set

My former employer wanted to check all our vehicles for overloading, so brought in a company who used that type of equipment. When it came to my turn, 2 axle LGV with a mini excavator on a twin axle trailer attached, the trailer was declared to weigh 6 Tonnes!:o I disputed this because when the front axle was on the pad the rear axle was off the ground and when the rear axle was on the plate the front axle was off the ground. I was asked to take my truck and the trailer to a local weighbridge where the trailer was found to weigh 2.2 tonnes. We didn't see that company again and my employer refused to pay for their "services" :)

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10 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

 

Police and dvsa use weight pads which are accurate .

https://www.scalesmart.com/wwsck12-axle-weighing-pad-set

Sorry but they are not, if you do your research you will find that portables weight pads for enforcement purposes have an accuracy of +/- 100 kg per axle. 

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42 minutes ago, Griffy said:

Sorry but they are not, if you do your research you will find that portables weight pads for enforcement purposes have an accuracy of +/- 100 kg per axle. 

Exactly correct.

I keep banging on about in practice

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53 minutes ago, Griffy said:

Sorry but they are not, if you do your research you will find that portables weight pads for enforcement purposes have an accuracy of +/- 100 kg per axle. 

Which is why, unless you are grossly overweight they will generally give you an informal warning and advice only, only if you are grossly overweight will they take it further.

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23 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

Never EVER came across, or even heard of, that situation in the best part of 30 years as a traffic cop. 

 

Even if it could be proved you would still, legally be insured against third party risks so anyone you are in collision with/injure can claim against your insurer. What your insurer MAY (and I stress may) do, is not pay out for damage to YOUR  property.

 

So to clarify, regardless of any possible “overweight” you will ALWAYS be insured to the minimum level required, by law, at that time.

You MAY not be covered for damage to the insured car/caravan/trailer etc. So your insurance will most certainly not be “invalidated” as such.

 

(The above of course only applies if you actually have insurance. If you don’t, and someone is injured the Motor Insurers Bureau, to who a small part of every premium goes to, will pick up the bill for personal injury claims) 

 

Andy

 

This is exactly as I understand it.

 

 

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