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Electric/Hybrid vehicles

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We are hardly tiddlers!  UK has the fifth largest economy by GDP and ninth by PPP (Purchasing Power Parity).  This latter scale puts China first, EU second and USA third.  Countries like us should set an example.  We are way down the league table as polluters but can do better.  USA, under Trump, no longer offers any leadership in world affairs.  But we still do.

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18 minutes ago, Grandpa Steve said:

We can spend billions on this and our impact will be not far off zero

 

You seem to assume that the rest of the world won't follow suit.

 

You may be right, but if you are then many of us are probably doomed.

 

I hope you are wrong and, I think, getting in early can only be a good thing for our economy and for the prospect of everyone else following suit.

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1 hour ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

Tried it on 3 occasions a Lexus CT200, a Lexus RX400 and a Lexus RX450, I  now have a Mercedes GLC 250d which is far better on fuel economy (by 15 mpg in town and nearer 20 mpg on a run) than any of the Lexus, hybrid or hype?

 

Total waste of time Hybrids ... I'm refering to Battery Electric Vehicles. 

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I am surprised that there has been no mention of the other technologies being looked at to support the conversion to EV transport.  This article came out last year which I thought was interesting

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/100194/government-to-investigate-wireless-charging-for-electric-cars

 

and the FT article on electric flight.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/0a58d62e-aeb9-11e8-8d14-6f049d06439c

 

The key for me, as has been mentioned earlier, is the cost of supporting the move to electric transport. Clearly this all has to be paid for by us. 

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46 minutes ago, kelper said:

We are hardly tiddlers!  UK has the fifth largest economy by GDP and ninth by PPP (Purchasing Power Parity).  This latter scale puts China first, EU second and USA third.  Countries like us should set an example.  We are way down the league table as polluters but can do better.  USA, under Trump, no longer offers any leadership in world affairs.  But we still do.

 

We can set an example. Pass the cost onto energy consumers, motorists and tax payers.

 

But here's what the leaders of your lists thinks.

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Silverback said:

 

Total waste of time Hybrids ... I'm referring to Battery Electric Vehicles. 

 

...and you have just completed the circle.

 

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3 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

We can set an example. Pass the cost onto energy consumers, motorists and tax payers.

 

But here's what the leaders of your lists thinks.

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/

 

 

Nice idea but how far do you think the low wage earner can be screwed before there is a big kick back.

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4 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

We can set an example. Pass the cost onto energy consumers, motorists and tax payers.

 

But here's what the leaders of your lists thinks.

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/

 

 

It's a business plan and has not been accepted by the Chinese government - yet

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14 minutes ago, logiclee said:

We can set an example. Pass the cost onto energy consumers, motorists and tax payers.

 

They already are doing in the name of being environmentally friendly, but in reality just another cash cow by a different name.

                                                      ********************************************

                                                       

1 hour ago, kelper said:

We are hardly tiddlers!  UK has the fifth largest economy by GDP and ninth by PPP (Purchasing Power Parity).  This latter scale puts China first, EU second and USA third.  Countries like us should set an example.  We are way down the league table as polluters but can do better.  USA, under Trump, no longer offers any leadership in world affairs.  But we still do.

 

We can lead but our actual tangible impact is still a very small percentage of nothing.

 

So lets just say we go carbon neutral (so we can gloat on the world stage), everyone (well some) will feel better for having made the effort but in reality the tangible impact is zero, because other countries will always do what is right for them, Inda for example with their vast resources of coal, will do their own thing without caring a hoot about anyone else.

 

For it to work it has to be every country in the world, or just don't bother because our very small contribution is worthless where it really counts.

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41 minutes ago, Grandpa Steve said:

other countries will always do what is right for them

 

Prevention of climatic disasters is right for nearly every country. Very few are immune. It's really not about gloating or making money.

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4 hours ago, svimes said:

Electricity distribution certainly has a long way to go to match the petroleum industry.

 

Only when we have electricity to every home and business in the country, as we do with the national petrol network, can we say that it is truly convenient.

You made oy larf :D

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Nice to see Grandpa Steve thinking of his granchildren's future. 😂

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3 hours ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

...and you have just completed the circle.

 

 

And why is that 🤔

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5 hours ago, logiclee said:

 

We can set an example. Pass the cost onto energy consumers, motorists and tax payers.

 

But here's what the leaders of your lists thinks.

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/

 

 

 

Who do you think buys all the stuff they produce?

 

All we have done is offshore our carbon emissions, to take it seriously we need to set standards for what we import.

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On 11/06/2019 at 19:17, logiclee said:

 

UK charging infrastructure is not good enough and a rip off.

 

I take it you're speaking from a position of authority gained from first hand experience?

 

Obviously the infrastructure needs to grow in line with the growth in EV usage.   It is however improving at a very rapid pace.  Don't forget that many thousands of people are quite happily running EVs.  Probably because, as the anti brigade keep forgetting, it’s as simple as plugging in overnight at home to get a full charge.

 

I'm not sure why you think it's a rip off though?  Still plenty of free public chargers and, as an example, 24p kWh on Tesco 50KW Podpoint rapid chargers.  Pretty fair I’d say?  How much have you had to pay?

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Out of interest, does anyone know how much electricity we currently store to deal with peak demand / off peak troughs?

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12 minutes ago, svimes said:

Out of interest, does anyone know how much electricity we currently store to deal with peak demand / off peak troughs?

Don’t know.   But sort of linked. A couple of years ago we did the tour of the pumped storage hydroelectric plant in n Wales aka electric mountain.  Built in the 70’s with state money and operated by the British engineering giant err Hitachi, makes me proud but I digress.  

 

 They  saw Electric vehicles as a long term threat as obviously they buy electricity when there is low demand to pump water up to the higher lake and generate it when demand is high.  Obviously the tendency both for convenience and cost will be to charge cars overnight so there won’t be as big a variations in demand during a day.  

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47 minutes ago, svimes said:

Out of interest, does anyone know how much electricity we currently store to deal with peak demand / off peak troughs?

 

This is a good article;

 

https://www.r-e-a.net/upload/rea_uk_energy_storage_report_november_2015_-_final.pdf

 

It explains the principles but the figures have increased dramatically in the last three years to 3.3GW in the UK.

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Pumped hydro is supplying nearly one percent as I write this!

 

http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

 

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1 hour ago, kelper said:

Pumped hydro is supplying nearly one percent as I write this!

 

http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

 

And your point is?

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22 hours ago, fred said:

Alternatively you may wish to believe the likes of Donald Trump, Lord Lawson or Piers Corbyn (yes he is related).  

This raises for me an interesting question. Let’s ignore the 97% scientific consensus and assume that the Donald is correct and man made climate change is a myth.  What would be the consequences of acting of like climate change is real?   Compared to Donald, Nige and Piers are wrong and we take no action?

But to be fair everyone knows that 98.73% of statistics are made up.  

Your last sentence is 100% correct which is if prefer Donald, Lawson or Corbyn statements which are probably more factual!  ;)

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One danger is the load balancing with multi-vehicle charging on a typical housing estate with everyone using single phase chargers.  The plan (well, one of them) is to install 3 phase supplies into new build houses.  Sounds good, but what about the houses that aren't new build (the majority)?  There are 101 other technical reasons that require massive investment (that isn't there), which, when coupled with the other limitations of the current ED1 price review means that actually implementing all of the seemingly good stuff that is publicised in the press is a LONG way off.

 

The publicity surrounding EV use is ramping up, but the actual implementation of it is lagging far behind.

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17 hours ago, svimes said:

 

Prevention of climatic disasters is right for nearly every country. Very few are immune. It's really not about gloating or making money.

 

It might be the right thing to do morally, but that has never stopped any government across the world doing it differently if it suits their agenda. 

 

I have to disagree about gloating or making money, they all want to be seen to be doing better than anyone else, and if there is no money in it they won't give it a second look.

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14 hours ago, Cabbage Patch said:

Nice to see Grandpa Steve thinking of his grandchildren's future. 😂

 

Why, because you think based on what you have heard and read, only your opinion and beliefs could be true.

 

Sorry to disappoint you but other people have differing opinions that are just as valid as yours.

 

 

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If your electric at home is £0.15 per unit however if when you fill up at a charging station it is a lot more, is that fair even though the supplier has had to install the charging infrastructure? 

The other way to look at it is that you do not have an EV or even a vehicle, would you be happy if the cost per unit jumped up from £0.15 to nearly double in order to subsidise EVs.   

Lastly it would be of great annoyance if each evening you suffered a power outage because the power network cannot cope with every one charging their vehicles and taking is back to the same status as a third world country.  This would mean power being cycled around towns with one town having electric between 2-3pm, next town between 3-4pm etc.

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1 hour ago, Durbanite said:

Donald, Lawson or Corbyn statements which are probably more factual!

 

Based on?

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