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Are we being conned .........again?


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What we need is an organisation to protect the poor defenceless Oil and coal companies from the sickening attacks they suffer from the tree huggers.  If only they could afford their own lawyers lobbyists and spin doctors then the world would be a much better place.   

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2 minutes ago, fred said:

What we need is an organisation to protect the poor defenceless Oil and coal companies from the sickening attacks they suffer from the tree huggers.  If only they could afford their own lawyers lobbyists and spin doctors then the world would be a much better place.   

Is this an example of irony ?  :D

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On 26/05/2019 at 16:36, Jaydug said:

 

And when we're all vegetarian and the farmers are all arable, the tree huggers will campaign against the lack of animals in the countryside.

 

There are many different and often conflicting agendas amongs the Greens, a group which often overlaps with vegitarians. Many people are vegetarian not because they love animals but because they hate them and want to abolish them - hence the need to become vegetarian. I first realised and was taken aback by this when I was browsing through a vegetarian newsletter that had been left on the seat of a train.

 

A frequently heard argument for vegetarianism is that it makes more efficient use of land for growing food. In other words it would release farm land for more building to allow the world population to increase even further and faster.  It does seem that the vegetarian Utopia is a world covered in 50-storey flats to house a population of a trillion*, with algea grown on the roofs (alongside the solar panels)  to feed them via food-synthesising factories. There won't be much room for trees to hug. Think Soylent Green. 

 

The World population, now nearly 8 billion, has doubled since 1980, well within my lifetime and hardly more than a generation, and it does not look like slowing down.  Anyone who has dabbled in mathematics should appreciate how frightening such a continued rapid doubling is - claims of increasing food and energy efficiency are as pitiful against such figures as trying to stop the tide with a sandcastle.  The "efficiency" of vegetarian food production would probably give only an additional decade or two's grace.

 

The population problem needs to be addressed more urgently than global warming does, but no politician has the nerve to do so.  Otherwise the problem will ultimately address itself, catastrophically.

 

* A World population of a trillion will be reached in only around 250 years at the present exponential rate.

Edited by Bolingbroke
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Politicians of all stripes are basically cowards and (more often) opportunists, many both. They pander to the green/eco lobby to make themselves appear ‘concerned’ for their constituents and the public, taxing us as much as they think they’ll get away with to fund schemes that NEVER produce results that satisfy the greenies - they always want more.  Politicians are also too afraid (or gullible) to admit present measures will not bring about the Alpine fresh air Utopia they claim as population increases, local and worldwide, are exponentially outpacing energy and food resources. We replace efficient generation methods with inefficient and more expensive technology like windmills and solar panels. 

There is no avoiding your assertions about population growth but that is too much for the UN and most national leaders as capitalism depends on an economic growth model. 

Therefore we are spun, openly deceived, exhorted, restricted, taxed to the hilt and all for nought.  A case in point in the UK; while politicians and the media ALWAYS spin our NHS’s struggles to meet increased demand on an “ageing population”, we also have “a housing crisis” that requires millions of new homes to be built across the country. As far as I can see older people do not require multiple houses and the pressure of mass immigration is considered off-limits in the chattering class. 

 

Unless we see a ground-shift in our political class who finally wake up to reality we will change little except upping our blood pressure in frustration. 

Edited by BillySmart
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Interesting and thought provoking.  Would you like to share your sources of your data?

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25 minutes ago, fred said:

Interesting and thought provoking.  Would you like to share your sources of your data?

 

I dont see any data, only Billysmart’s views and opinions! 

 

Andy

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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On 26/05/2019 at 16:36, Jaydug said:

 

And when we're all vegetarian and the farmers are all arable, the tree huggers will campaign against the lack of animals in the countryside.:o

Would that be reported as 'Arable v.A Rabble'? Only in the Sun? :P

Steve

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Humankind has a great talent for greed, but also a great talent for invention and innovation that helps to find solutions tomorrow, to what appear to be insoluble problems today. I started work in September 1970, before computerisation, before the invention of the electronic calculator, before the mobile phone etc. Now. we communicate electronically, we have made great advances in  renewable energy [Scotland has been self sufficient in energy renewables so often over the last 3 years or so that it is no longer reported!], we can work remotely, we can control food production via genetics [ethics still to be resolved] to boost yields and control natural famines and related problems. These few examples show our ingenuity at producing solutions to our ever-expanding consumption, and yet, less than 50 years ago, they were more akin to plot lines out of Dan Dare!

More challenging will be controlling [greed of the First World] the expectations of the developing nations, who already have large populations; who find it cheaper [with First World consumer benefits via prices] to employ human labour rather than using technology; who want a share of the new wealth via decent wages and decent employment conditions etc.  And then, how do we control nations such as China, that pollutes incessantly, consuming scarce resources to deliver yet more consumerism to the West, whilst using the generated wealth to own huge amounts of sovereign debt of the nations who would have traditionally been expected to get China to 'toe the line'? [about 25 years ago, China was reported as owning some76% of US Foreign Debt, and as, IIRC, the Financial Times reported, 'China doesn't need to invade America;it just needs to ask for its money back ...']

We live in interesting times - but I am more than happy to be the Victor Meldrew retiree bellowing and moaning from the sidelines!

 

Steve

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Heres one I asked a vegan friend,

If they got rid of the animals how would they fertilise the soil for your food, and the cost of the extra blood fish and bone fertiliser that they'll have to use will make vegan food very expensive.

 

He still avoids me :)

Paul B

. .......Mondeo Estate & Elddis Avanté 505 (Tobago)

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11 hours ago, fred said:

Interesting and thought provoking.  Would you like to share your sources of your data?

 

Good luck with that!

 

An interesting starting point would be the "taxed to the hilt". Easy enough to look in to and see how total tax take has varied and what spending it has been gathered on...you would think

2 minutes ago, Paul_B said:

Heres one I asked a vegan friend,

If they got rid of the animals how would they fertilise the soil for your food, and the cost of the extra blood fish and bone fertiliser that they'll have to use will make vegan food very expensive.

 

He still avoids me :)

 

How expensive?

 

Our garden grows pretty well without any animal fertilizer. Granted, it could grow even better with it but in terms of converting solar energy to food I'm pretty certain it's more efficient to cut out the animal middle men

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2 minutes ago, Paul_B said:

 

If they got rid of the animals how would they fertilise the soil for your food, and the cost of the extra blood fish and bone fertiliser that they'll have to use will make vegan food very expensive.

 

 

Blood ,fish and bone fertiliser is an animal product that a vegan would not approve of!

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10 minutes ago, Stevan said:

Blood ,fish and bone fertiliser is an animal product that a vegan would not approve of!

 

:Thankyou:

Paul B

. .......Mondeo Estate & Elddis Avanté 505 (Tobago)

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We need to see fairness applied across all transport modes.  Kerosene (aviation fuel) is not subject to fuel duty, neither is fuel oil for ships. Given the life of engines/vehicle hours/vehicle movements etc such modes of transport should contribute to reducing emissions and increasing air quality in the same manner as ordinary folk that have decided to use a diesel engine.

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Most of that could have the words ‘oil companies’ inserted where reference to green/ eco lobby currently sits and it would still read accurately.

 

It ultimately depends if you are predisposed to being a denier/ cautious/ dismissive of discussions on the environment or whether you are open as to where you sit in the debate.  

 

Unfortunately those that are predisposed to perpetuate negativity in some way towards such discussions are sitting on the wrong side of ever-building evidence; hopefully current and future generations that are more open to the discussion have the opportunity to change the habits of old, including our own.

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On 21/05/2019 at 11:25, Borussia 1900 said:

We need to get rid of people not cars, the planet is over populated and it's only going to get worse. We'll all be dead soon so at least that's something to look forward to.

As always mate you have hit the nail on the head. I totally agree and have been saying the same for some time. Unfortunately politicians of all colours will never say that - it would be political suicide besides how could we reduce population. And then there are the human rights lobbyists......

As you say it won't be our problem. 

I cant help feeling that the planet will heal itsself (a phrase I picked up reading a scientific journal- apparently its very good at it!) in the not too distant future.

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3 minutes ago, Omega54 said:

As always mate you have hit the nail on the head. I totally agree and have been saying the same for some time. Unfortunately politicians of all colours will never say that - it would be political suicide besides how could we reduce population. And then there are the human rights lobbyists......

As you say it won't be our problem. 

I cant help feeling that the planet will heal itsself (a phrase I picked up reading a scientific journal- apparently its very good at it!) in the not too distant future.

 

The planet will survive, the question is over the climate and environment required to sustain human beings.

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