Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Weekend Traveller

Motor movers and liability.

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Bolingbroke said:

 There is a third criterion : whether you can manage without the insured item.  For examples, I could manage without my caravan, camera, and tablet computer. I could not however manage without my house, so I do insure that.

Can you afford to pay for the damages your caravan can cause when unhitched?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Bolingbroke said:

 

So don't those other owners of caravans have insurance then?  There is an old saying, which adjusted for inflation, goes :

"If you owe someone £10 thousand you have a problem, but if you owe someone £10 million, they have a problem"

 

Why should I make use of my insurance if clearly someone else is to blame? No way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Lutz said:

 

I have only ever been asked by an insurance company if I've made a claim, not if I've had an accident.....

 

 

It is not unusual to be asked whether the 'to be insured' has had either an accident or claim over a recent period.

 

Typically....

 

20190417_072735.thumb.png.fd8759b081b3600602f51495612350ec.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Griff said:

 

It is not unusual to be asked whether the 'to be insured' has had either an accident or claim over a recent period.

 

Typically....

 

20190417_072735.thumb.png.fd8759b081b3600602f51495612350ec.png

 

The way the question is formulated is up to interpretation. What do they mean by 'accident'? Do they only mean accidents covered by your or somebody else's  insurance? They don't even exclude accidents not involving your own insured vehicle, so presumably you'd have to let them know of an accident that you'd had with a rental car while on holiday in Majorca. It's all very unclear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

The way the question is formulated is up to interpretation. What do they mean by 'accident'? Do they only mean accidents covered by your or somebody else's  insurance? They don't even exclude accidents not involving your own insured vehicle, so presumably you'd have to let them know of an accident that you'd had with a rental car while on holiday in Majorca. It's all very unclear.

 

Clicking the 'Yes' button would probably bring up other clarifying questions but they do initially ask accidents or claims.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Griff said:

 

Clicking the 'Yes' button would probably bring up other clarifying questions but they do initially ask accidents or claims.

 

I'd want to know what I'm clicking the 'yes' button for before I do it. After all, the way the question is asked I don't even know whether they only mean traffic accidents.

 

Edited by Lutz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

I'd want to know what I'm clicking the 'yes' button for before I do it.

 

Then contact a UK insurance company or broker :)

 

 

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

I'd want to know what I'm clicking the 'yes' button for before I do it.

 

If you have made a claim you have no truthful option but to click it first!

 

Maybe someone out there can let us know what happens next After clicking 'yes'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Paul_B said:

 

Then contact a UK insurance company or broker :)

 

 

If I contact the insurance company they might take a note of my question and that alone could potentially affect my premium. I would therefore expect the insurance company to clarify the picture without having to be asked.

Just as an example, what if I, as a pedestrian, was recently hit and injured by a car while crossing the street on a zebra crossing? That is undoubtedly a traffic accident, but would I have to report that to the insurance company when applying for a car insurance?

  • Confused 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The question I was invited to click on last week went further.   It asked "In the last five years, have you had or caused any accidents, claims or damage involving any motor vehicle (including cars, motorbikes and/or vans), even if no claim was made and regardless of blame?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I started the claim process for an incident with my insurer November 2017. In January 2018 I agreed with the insurer to cancel the claim (because I could get the damage sorted for less than the added cost of future premium increases and payment of excesses). I had protected No Claims Discount. In April 2018 my renewal notice showed a massive increase in premium and a claim on record. Details of the incident had not been correctly recorded and after a long process involving the Ombudsman the records were corrected and my premium reduced to its former level. I still have a claim on record "Accident damage - November 2017" The record actually shows "Details of Claims, Accidents, losses or Incidents".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Jaydug said:

The question I was invited to click on last week went further.   It asked "In the last five years, have you had or caused any accidents, claims or damage involving any motor vehicle (including cars, motorbikes and/or vans), even if no claim was made and regardless of blame?

 

I suppose that would include an accident that one may have been involved in while driving a rental car on holiday or business trip.

How would anyone be able to verify whether one was involved in an accident where no claim was made, neither by one's self, nor by a third party?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Jaydug said:

 

Well bully for you!   Me, on the other hand, having paid out a hefty wodge for my travel insurance for my winter stay in Spain got heartily sick of seeing people on social media trying to organise crowdfund collections to bring their sick and injured relatives home from far away places because they were too tight-fisted or they thought it would never happen to them.   

 

Exactly, if you feel that you are at a significant risk, then you pay the insurance, if your circumstances are different and you assess that the risk of any incident is almost insignificant, then its rational not to take out the insurance. If you don't take out insurance and an incident happens, then that's tough,  you take the consequences. I'm absolutely fine with that. I'm not going to be bleating about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When insurers decide on a premium, as well as their admin costs and profits to cover they look at the financial risk to themselves and if it is insignificant as in your case, the premium ought to be very low. That is why I asked if you had got any quotes for your caravan since it would be of interest to others with old caravans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Weekend Traveller said:

. If you don't take out insurance and an incident happens, then that's tough,  you take the consequences. I'm absolutely fine with that. I'm not going to be bleating about it.

 

 

No!   When you're languishing in a foreign hospital having had an unexpected stroke, and the medical staff is telling your family members that they can do nothing more for you,  it's them that will be doing the bleating wondering where they're going to get the £16000 from to fetch you home. 

 

(Not an imaginary chain of events.   It all happened during the last winter)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Jaydug said:

 

No!   When you're languishing in a foreign hospital having had an unexpected stroke, and the medical staff is telling your family members that they can do nothing more for you,  it's them that will be doing the bleating wondering where they're going to get the £16000 from to fetch you home. 

 

(Not an imaginary chain of events.   It all happened during the last winter)

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Weekend Traveller said:

Who was it who said "Lies, damned lies and statistics"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The risk is a function of the probability as well as the severity. So whilst a probability of an event is very low, if the consequences are high then the risk may be high enough to warrant doing something. I worked in the chemical industry and we did a lot of work on risk to help decide on what safety and environmental things had to be implemented or not and how much should be spent.

 

In the case of WT not wanting insurance, he is saying he believes the probability of any events that he can not cover by his financial assets are low enough to warrant not having insurance.

Edited by Paul1957

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 16/04/2019 at 13:44, Weekend Traveller said:

 

Yes, but you  seem to be implying that being well prepared is almost pointless, because stuff happens randomly anyway. That is untrue, if you are un insured but you are well aware of any likely risks coupled to your proposed endevour, then you can demonstrably reduce the likelihood of  any disadvantageous  incident happening by being well informed and well prepared.

 

Isn't this, for example,  why the police do training?

7

 

This is not remotely related to police training ...  years ago when I was a plod we were called to all manner of incidents and we dutifully investigated them at great public expense ... this is nothing at all to do with the police ...  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Lutz said:

 

The way the question is formulated is up to interpretation. What do they mean by 'accident'? Do they only mean accidents covered by your or somebody else's  insurance? They don't even exclude accidents not involving your own insured vehicle, so presumably you'd have to let them know of an accident that you'd had with a rental car while on holiday in Majorca. It's all very unclear.

 

To my mind it is crystal clear (but then I have had professional dealings with insurers over many years) 

 

Failure to disclose any “relevant information” COULD result in an insurer refusing to pay out for damage to YOUR caravan.

 

The wording of the question is “If you have been involved in any accident REGARDLESS OF FAULT” then failure to disclose it could be considered as withholding relevant information. That’s not my slant on it, it’s the way insurance companies operate. 

 

Remember they are experts in the insurance business and will have worded things VERY carefully indeed to THIER advantage. 

 

If you withhold relevant information (and it’s what THEY might consider relevant not you) then it’s done at your extreme peril. If you read any policy document somewhere it will define what they consider relevant, and it’s the EXACT wording of the policy that’s important because that’s what will be used in any dispute.

 

If in ANY doubt whatsoever tell them! 

 

I am sure Legal Legal Eagle will  confirm what I have said.

 

Andy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Paul1957 said:

The risk is a function of the probability as well as the severity. So whilst a probability of an event is very low, if the consequences are high then the risk may be high enough to warrant doing something. I worked in the chemical industry and we did a lot of work on risk to help decide on what safety and environmental things had to be implemented or not and how much should be spent.

 

In the case of WT not wanting insurance, he is saying he believes the probability of any events that he can not cover by his financial assets are low enough to warrant not having insurance.

 

Exactly, I pitch my caravan probably ten times a year, mostly weekend trips, we like small, quiet CL/CS type sites. Of the two trips we've done so far this year, the first site had one other unit on, and that was my brother, on the second site, we were the only ones there. I always reverse the caravan onto the pitch, so I'm insured if I hit anything, and due to the type of sites I frequent, the only things I'm likely to reverse into are a hedge or a fence, so the risk of me causing significant damage to any third party while the caravan is unhitched from the towing vehicle is infinitesimally small, I probably have more chance of being hit by a meteorite, which is why I deem insurance unnecessary in my case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

To my mind it is crystal clear (but then I have had professional dealings with insurers over many years) 

 

Failure to disclose any “relevant information” COULD result in an insurer refusing to pay out for damage to YOUR caravan.

 

The wording of the question is “If you have been involved in any accident REGARDLESS OF FAULT” then failure to disclose it could be considered as withholding relevant information. That’s not my slant on it, it’s the way insurance companies operate. 

 

Remember they are experts in the insurance business and will have worded things VERY carefully indeed to THIER advantage. 

 

If you withhold relevant information (and it’s what THEY might consider relevant not you) then it’s done at your extreme peril. If you read any policy document somewhere it will define what they consider relevant, and it’s the EXACT wording of the policy that’s important because that’s what will be used in any dispute.

 

If in ANY doubt whatsoever tell them! 

 

I am sure Legal Legal Eagle will  confirm what I have said.

 

Andy

All you say is true, we all know it, this thread has been started by a chancer/troll , I can't believe the effort that has been put into replies to such a dumb ass question.  I'm ex plod myself and by all accounts, I'm pretty decent chap (some ex plods can't understand real life)  but I wouldn't waste a minute of my past professional time on this thread. 

 

i'm more concerned that anyone here would take the question seriously since the OP obviously already knows the chance he is taking .. so why on earth try and justify it ... Sad to see so many taken in by it ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

JetA1

 

I was responding to Lutz’s post, not the OP who clearly, as has been pointed out, is 100% certain that HIS view is the only valid one and the rest of us are brain dead for purchasing totally unnecessary insurance.

 

One day I am sure this attitude will bite him in the rear end, but of course we won’t get to hear about that will we??

 

Andy

Edited by Mr Plodd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Weekend Traveller said:

 

Exactly, I pitch my caravan probably ten times a year, mostly weekend trips, we like small, quiet CL/CS type sites. Of the two trips we've done so far this year, the first site had one other unit on, and that was my brother, on the second site, we were the only ones there. I always reverse the caravan onto the pitch, so I'm insured if I hit anything, and due to the type of sites I frequent, the only things I'm likely to reverse into are a hedge or a fence, so the risk of me causing significant damage to any third party while the caravan is unhitched from the towing vehicle is infinitesimally small, I probably have more chance of being hit by a meteorite, which is why I deem insurance unnecessary in my case.

 

I am by all accounts "Mr Micro manager" but you re taking it to a whole new level ... if you really are so worried about third party risk when using the mover then you will never enjoy a night in a caravan. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Weekend Traveller said:

 

Exactly, I pitch my caravan probably ten times a year, mostly weekend trips, we like small, quiet CL/CS type sites. Of the two trips we've done so far this year, the first site had one other unit on, and that was my brother, on the second site, we were the only ones there. I always reverse the caravan onto the pitch, so I'm insured if I hit anything, and due to the type of sites I frequent, the only things I'm likely to reverse into are a hedge or a fence, so the risk of me causing significant damage to any third party while the caravan is unhitched from the towing vehicle is infinitesimally small, I probably have more chance of being hit by a meteorite, which is why I deem insurance unnecessary in my case.

Except your motor insurance may not cover you on private property i.e. a CL/CS or other camp site.

Motor insurance provides, as a legally required minimum, third party liabilty on a road or other public place. A campsite is not necessarily a public place as, quite simply, it's not open to access by the general public, access being restricted to only those with business there - paying campers or invited guests.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  



×
×
  • Create New...