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Weekend Traveller

Motor movers and liability.

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If you need to put your caravan in storage the site usually requires it to be insured for so many millions against third party liability.

 

Does anyone know if camp sites require you to have liability insurance, the camping and caravanning club do for their static caravan sites ?

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40 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

Indeed, it’s all down to what level of risk an individual is prepared to accept.

 

 

Yet again you are I deed correct, but no-one ever intends to have any sort of incident, but they DO happen and none of knows when or where. Have you never cut yourself or broken a bone? I bet it was unintentional wasn’t it??

 

Andy

 

Yes, but you  seem to be implying that being well prepared is almost pointless, because stuff happens randomly anyway. That is untrue, if you are un insured but you are well aware of any likely risks coupled to your proposed endevour, then you can demonstrably reduce the likelihood of  any disadvantageous  incident happening by being well informed and well prepared.

 

Isn't this, for example,  why the police do training?

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Have you had any insurance quotes to see how much it would cost ?

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7 minutes ago, Paul1957 said:

Have you had any insurance quotes to see how much it would cost ?

 

Insurance companies assess risk, they give themselves a VERY generous margin, that's how people like Aaron Banks make a fortune.

 

The vast majority of people, over a lifetime,  would be much better off if they never paid any insurance at all, If your house happens to burn down, then you're actually very unlucky. The insurers stack the odds in their favour, they always win.

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I don't really understand the point of this topic. Accidents/incidents happen and if insurance cover is an option then it's down to individual choice as to how much risk they are prepared to take.

We can't predict the future and you just never know if or when anything will go wrong but if you decide to take a chance then you must be prepared to accept the consequences. Hospitals and cemeteries are full of people who said it would never happen to them.

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52 minutes ago, Legal Eagle said:

Hospitals and cemeteries are full of people who said it would never happen to them.

 

And I, over my lifetime, am now tens of thousands of pounds better off for not falling for the disingenuous scaremongering of the insurance trade, the truth is that the amount that they charge is orders of magnitude greater than the actual risk they're taking.

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1 hour ago, Weekend Traveller said:

 

And I, over my lifetime, am now tens of thousands of pounds better off for not falling for the disingenuous scaremongering of the insurance trade, the truth is that the amount that they charge is orders of magnitude greater than the actual risk they're taking.

Then what was the purpose in starting this thread?

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Weekend Traveller said:

 

The only consideration you've omitted is the probability of an incident occurring, if likely incidents are common, then it's worth paying a large premium, if the likelihood of an  incident occurring is extremely small, then it's a tiny risk if you don't insure.

 

 

The above incidents you mention are all due to carelessness or plain stupidity, if one is attentive when maneuvering on site, risks of damage to third parties is extremely low.

 

If you could be liable to damages of hundreds of thousands of pounds, and can insure against that for a few quid then it may be a tiny risk but as the potential is life-changing I see no point in assuming everything will go well. For example, there is no way I would travel to the USA without decent health insurance. But I know some people do, and we hear about it when they try to raise money for medical bills.....

 

As for your second point, we all do careless or stupid things at times. At least I do, fortunately without serious consequences so far.

 

 

Edited by iansoady
tidy up qutes.

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1 hour ago, Weekend Traveller said:

 

And I, over my lifetime, am now tens of thousands of pounds better off for not falling for the disingenuous scaremongering of the insurance trade, the truth is that the amount that they charge is orders of magnitude greater than the actual risk they're taking.

No matter how careful you think you will be, all that you saved could prove to be a false economy and disappear in one moment of inattention or distraction.

However, your views on insurance are set so starting this thread was pointless as it can go nowhere. We won't convince you buy cover and you won't convince us not to buy cover but when it goes wrong for us we're laughing. When it goes wrong for you, you won't be! 😉

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1 hour ago, Weekend Traveller said:

 

And I, over my lifetime, am now tens of thousands of pounds better off for not falling for the disingenuous scaremongering of the insurance trade, the truth is that the amount that they charge is orders of magnitude greater than the actual risk they're taking.

 

Maybe, but even tens of thousands of pounds saved can saved in the wrong place if one is faced with claims that can go into hundreds of thousands. Just think of the case that Durbanite raised where a caravan fire could conceivably cause a whole campsite to burn down.

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8 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

If an uninsured and unhitched caravan caused damage to my property there is no way I would claim off MY insurance. I would pursue the owner of the “offending” caravan because any claim I make will affect my future insurance costs. 

 

Andy

 

 

That seems to be the accepted view but....................................

Your car insurance almost certainly requires you to report any incident involving damage to your car and, by doing so, your NCD will be affected as it is 'no claim' not 'no blame'. The NCD may be recoverable from the other party but your premium is likely to be increased on renewal.

Failing to do so and claiming from the person responsible is fraught with problems should it be rejected further down the line and you then have to claim from  to your insurer for repairs to be carried out.

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17 minutes ago, beejay said:

 

That seems to be the accepted view but....................................

Your car insurance almost certainly requires you to report any incident involving damage to your car and, by doing so, your NCD will be affected as it is 'no claim' not 'no blame'. The NCD may be recoverable from the other party but your premium is likely to be increased on renewal.

Failing to do so and claiming from the person responsible is fraught with problems should it be rejected further down the line and you then have to claim from  to your insurer for repairs to be carried out.

 

But you would only be reporting the incident to your insurance. You would not necessarily be making a claim against your insurance, but directly against the third party. So surely the no claims bonus is unaffected?

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2 hours ago, Weekend Traveller said:

 

And I, over my lifetime, am now tens of thousands of pounds better off for not falling for the disingenuous scaremongering of the insurance trade, the truth is that the amount that they charge is orders of magnitude greater than the actual risk they're taking.

 

If that were true, they'd be making massive taxable profits to distribute to their shareholders, predominantly pension funds - I don't see any evidence of  that happening.

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7 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

But you would only be reporting the incident to your insurance. You would not necessarily be making a claim against your insurance, but directly against the third party. So surely the no claims bonus is unaffected?

 

But they will tell you that if you have had a “no fault” claim statistically you are more likely to make an “at fault” claim in the future so will up your premium. I had EXACTLY this happen when my parked and unattended car was struck by someone reversing out of a driveway opposite. I asked to see the “statistics” for some odd reason the insurance company declined as it was “commercially sensitive information??

 

Round spherical objects unique to the male species was my reaction, but they wouldn’t budge. Apparently it’s “standard practice” in the insurance industry.

 

 I argued that as I clearly could have had NO influence on what happened why on earth should MY premium increase. Head, beat, wall!!

 

Andy

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2 hours ago, Weekend Traveller said:

 

And I, over my lifetime, am now tens of thousands of pounds better off for not falling for the disingenuous scaremongering of the insurance trade,

 

 

Well bully for you!   Me, on the other hand, having paid out a hefty wodge for my travel insurance for my winter stay in Spain got heartily sick of seeing people on social media trying to organise crowdfund collections to bring their sick and injured relatives home from far away places because they were too tight-fisted or they thought it would never happen to them.   

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22 minutes ago, Jaydug said:

 

Well bully for you!   Me, on the other hand, having paid out a hefty wodge for my travel insurance for my winter stay in Spain got heartily sick of seeing people on social media trying to organise crowdfund collections to bring their sick and injured relatives home from far away places because they were too tight-fisted or they thought it would never happen to them.   

 

Oh good, I thought it was just me who thought that way. 

 

Andy

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24 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

But they will tell you that if you have had a “no fault” claim statistically you are more likely to make an “at fault” claim in the future so will up your premium. I had EXACTLY this happen when my parked and unattended car was struck by someone reversing out of a driveway opposite. I asked to see the “statistics” for some odd reason the insurance company declined as it was “commercially sensitive information??

 

Round spherical objects unique to the male species was my reaction, but they wouldn’t budge. Apparently it’s “standard practice” in the insurance industry.

 

 I argued that as I clearly could have had NO influence on what happened why on earth should MY premium increase. Head, beat, wall!!

 

Andy

 

How grossly unfair!

 

Last year I had an minor accident for which I was to blame. The other party claimed off my insurance. However, because there was little damage, the sum involved was considerably less than what I would have lost over the years on my no claims bonus. The insurance company made me an offer that if I were to repay them with the full amount of the claim my no claims bonus would be reinstated as if nothing had happened.

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2 hours ago, Lutz said:

 

But you would only be reporting the incident to your insurance. You would not necessarily be making a claim against your insurance, but directly against the third party. So surely the no claims bonus is unaffected?

 

The insurance company ask if you have had an accident in the last five years, either fault or no fault. Its the premium that's effected not necessary the bonus, most of us protect the bonus by more insurance anyway.

I also insure my voluntary excess.

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We have our own examples of the value of having insurance as I am sure many others have.

 

Mrs P was involved in a car crash insurance claim that we suspect was a scam. The other person and his witness said she went through a red light and her Citroen C4 wrote off his transit flat back truck and gave his son whiplash injuries. He had 2 different names, lived at a different address to the insurance claim one, the son lived elsewhere, the transit we saw on the road whilst it was supposedly written off and he claimed thousands in hire car costs. The witness lived near the son and was in a car following the transit. At the insurance company request, the child saw a whiplash expert who saw no signs of injury but said there would have been some at the time due to the high  speed of the crash (a few mph going by the car damage) so the insurance paid for the injuries. And on top of this, whilst our car was still off the road being repaired, they tried to claim a second crash saying the C4 hit the back of the child's mother's minibus and gave back injuries to the same child with the whiplash injuries. Without any insurance we could not have covered any of this.

 

On another occasion, somebody clipped the back of her car scratching the bumper. Being only a couple of years old it needed repairing properly. The other person offered to pay and not involve insurers so we got an estimate but then it was too dear for the other person who wanted us to mess about getting lots of cheaper quotes. Anyway, we claimed through our insurance since it did not cost us anything as it was recovered from the other person's insurance.

 

As for value for money, we had an expensive static caravan (lodge) written off in the December 2015 Lake District floods. The insurance was about £300 but the claim ended up in the order of £100k, so well worth the money and more than we will ever pay in premiums. Premiums after the claim have not increased either.

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My 5Cs caravan cover from CMC includes third part liability and states:

 

Quote

We will Pay all sums (up to the amount stated in the Summary of Cover on page 3) which You become legally Liable to pay as compensation for death or injury to, or damage to property of, any Third Party arising directly as a result of Your use, or ownership, of the Caravan.

 

It would seem I am covered when caravan unhitched as per OP query

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Yes, but ONLY  if you have the caravan insured, the OP says he doesn’t :rolleyes:

 

Andy

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Paul_B said:

 

The insurance company ask if you have had an accident in the last five years, either fault or no fault. Its the premium that's effected not necessary the bonus, most of us protect the bonus by more insurance anyway.

I also insure my voluntary excess.

 

I have only ever been asked by an insurance company if I've made a claim, not if I've had an accident. How would they know anyway if it's been settled privately? Besides. what constitutes an accident? Is it only when there is a third party claim?

 

Edited by Lutz

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Oops, my bad. Forgot that after reading through whole thread

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7 hours ago, Weekend Traveller said:

 

 am now tens of thousands of pounds better off for not falling for the disingenuous scaremongering of the insurance trade

As am I. Earlier Mr Plodd mentioned two criteria for taking out insurance : whether you could afford to replace the item and whether you could meet a third party claim. There is a third criterion : whether you can manage without the insured item.  For examples, I could manage without my caravan, camera, and tablet computer. I could not however manage without my house, so I do insure that.

 

5 hours ago, Lutz said:

 

Maybe, but even tens of thousands of pounds saved can saved in the wrong place if one is faced with claims that can go into hundreds of thousands. Just think of the case that Durbanite raised where a caravan fire could conceivably cause a whole campsite to burn down.

So don't those other owners of caravans have insurance then?  There is an old saying, which adjusted for inflation, goes :

"If you owe someone £10 thousand you have a problem, but if you owe someone £10 million, they have a problem"

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19 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

If a caravan is attached to a towing vehicle then, under U.K. law it is deemed to be an integral part of the towing vehicle, hence, under those circumstances, the third party (only) part of the towing vehicles insurance covers it.

 

The instant it is detached from the towing vehicle a caravan (obviously) can no longer be considered an integral part of it, so the towing vehicles insurance no longer covers it.

 

So to answer the original question you are not covered by the towing vehicles insurance from the moment it’s detached.

 

If an uninsured and unhitched caravan caused damage to my property there is no way I would claim off MY insurance. I would pursue the owner of the “offending” caravan because any claim I make will affect my future insurance costs. 

 

Under NO circumstances will the insurance of the towing vehicle ever cover damage to the towed caravan, it only ever covers third party injury or damage. 

 

Andy

 

I think the OP knows exactly what the situation is.

 

To be honest I'm surprised anyone is dignifying the post with a reply.

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