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robhar

Alde Heating not working after night mode ends

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I have a strange issue with the heating in our 2018 Lunar Clubman. The system works fine except if we use night mode to maintain a minimum temperature overnight. The caravan does not heat up again when night mode ends. Night mode is normally set at 12c from 23:30 - 07:30 and the default temperature is set at 20c. The system does not allow the temperature to drop below 12c overnight but at 07:30 when night mode ends the pump kicks in and runs for about 2 -3 mins and then stops. If I switch the system off and back on again it runs normally until the following morning when the same issue arises. Turning the water heating function off overnight makes no difference. Has anyone else had this issue and found a solution. I have emailed Alde technical support but they say responses to emails can take 5 days so I am hoping someone else has experienced this issue and found a solution.

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Posted (edited)

We only set the night mode as no need for the day mode which seems to mess up everything!  It is set to night mode from 10pm until 6am and at 17C.  That way the default temp is 22 and not 20C on ours so at 6am it starts warming up the caravan.  Also is the time correct?  We also have a backup battery for ours. 

However just in case have you gone to the services menu and done a reset?  You then need to set it up again but doing this clears most issues.

Just to add we have a similar issue and are presently using it on gas to get the caravan to a comfortable temperature and then switching back to electric.

Edited by Durbanite

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Not often realised, the Alde system has day, night and default time / temperatures. 

A common mistake is to have day times overlapping night times. I think I read somewhere, that this can cause the issue you describe.

I use the night mode, and default mode, and have no issues - never used the day mode.

Might be worthwhile checking your on /off times, and changing so that there is a few minutes between, or turn off day mode and just use night & default modes.

In case you don't have it to hand, here is a link to the 3020 system manual

https://www.alde.co.uk/downloads/alde_3020_user_en-gb.pdf

 

 

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Thanks for your suggestions. Yes I have done a reset on the control panel and also checked for overlapping times. Day mode is switched off but its times are set to 10am - 3pm. For testing purposes back at home I have set the night mode to end at 9am so I can go to the caravan and observe what happens. As stated above the system drops out of night mode at 9am, the pump symbol comes on for 2 -3 mins and then goes off. If I turn the system off and then back on again it works fine until the following morning.

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This may not be your problem, but if you have night time mode active, do you have to have day mode active as well? Looks like night mode ends, then there is nothing to for it to kick it back in? as you said you set night mode to end at 09:00, then nothing because you have not asked it to operate in day mode. I don't know if you can only operate in night mode only?

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Thanks David, my understanding is that it should revert to the default settings when night mode ends. Day mode is an optional feature so you can control the heating and hot water whilst you are out for the day, 

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4 hours ago, robhar said:

I have a strange issue with the heating in our 2018 Lunar Clubman. The system works fine except if we use night mode to maintain a minimum temperature overnight. The caravan does not heat up again when night mode ends. Night mode is normally set at 12c from 23:30 - 07:30 and the default temperature is set at 20c. The system does not allow the temperature to drop below 12c overnight but at 07:30 when night mode ends the pump kicks in and runs for about 2 -3 mins and then stops. If I switch the system off and back on again it runs normally until the following morning when the same issue arises. Turning the water heating function off overnight makes no difference. Has anyone else had this issue and found a solution. I have emailed Alde technical support but they say responses to emails can take 5 days so I am hoping someone else has experienced this issue and found a solution.

 

Not really directly helping you but, I found that although I am reasonably savvy on such things, setting the Alde was a bit of a chore, though it did work as it was supposed to.

 

My main problem, particularly when it is very cold and the vans heat is lost quite quickly.  Once the times are set we became a bit of a slave to the clock.  So if we did not retire at the right time an override had to be done.

 

My simple solution is to not bother.  I use 3 temperatures.  evening might be 23, daytime 21 and night 17.  It takes just seconds to switch between them and at a time which suits us.

 

In the morning I get up to turn on the pre filled kettle and up the temperature at the same time.  All's good.

 

John

 

 

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53 minutes ago, JCloughie said:

 

Not really directly helping you but, I found that although I am reasonably savvy on such things, setting the Alde was a bit of a chore, though it did work as it was supposed to.

 

My main problem, particularly when it is very cold and the vans heat is lost quite quickly.  Once the times are set we became a bit of a slave to the clock.  So if we did not retire at the right time an override had to be done.

 

My simple solution is to not bother.  I use 3 temperatures.  evening might be 23, daytime 21 and night 17.  It takes just seconds to switch between them and at a time which suits us.

 

In the morning I get up to turn on the pre filled kettle and up the temperature at the same time.  All's good.

 

John

 

 

We do exactly the same, just alter the thermostat setting to suit what we need. Don’t use the advanced options or the Swift Command. 

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I also tried the night settings, as said, who lives such a regimented lifestyle, so then reverted to the remote control option, the wife!

 

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17 hours ago, David P said:

This may not be your problem, but if you have night time mode active, do you have to have day mode active as well? Looks like night mode ends, then there is nothing to for it to kick it back in? as you said you set night mode to end at 09:00, then nothing because you have not asked it to operate in day mode. I don't know if you can only operate in night mode only?

That is incorrect.  When night mode ends, it reverts to the default mode and there is no need to switch on the day mode.  We found that the using the day mode caused more issues than it resolved.

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I have been doing some further monitoring. As a test at home I have set the night mode to end at 9am so I can watch what happens. The default temp is set to 18c and night at 8c.  At 9am the screen turned bright and the pump symbol came on. It ran for 2min 40 seconds and stopped. At exactly 9:08 the pump symbol came on and ran for another 2mins 40 secs. It seems to maintain this cycle until I touch the screen and do something like adjusting the temperature by a degree when the system then runs continuously until the set temperature is reached. I have repeated this test over several days and it always runs for 2mins 40 secs which suggests this is a software issue. If night mode is not set the system works normally so this suggests no problems with kinked pipes, airlocks etc.

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Posted (edited)

Why not contact ALDE ?

 

Edited by TedNewman
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On 16/04/2019 at 09:56, TedNewman said:

Why not contact ALDE ?

 

I have done. Received reply from them this morning wanting photos of the rear of the control panel and the connections on the boiler so they can see what is actually connected. 

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Posted (edited)

I am now convinced that it is the load monitor that is at fault.  When we switched it off, everything functioned correctly.   No reply from ALDE as have to wait 5 days so earliest we will have an answer is Wednesday next week although the post was sent on Monday.

Edited by Durbanite

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Alde came back to me within 2 days to be fair and said they could not replicate this behavior on their system except by corrupting the software or plugging in external devices incorrectly. They asked me to send them photographs of the boiler and control panel connections which I have done. I did find that an external start lead had been connected to the load monitor terminals on the boiler, presumably at the Lunar factory but disconnecting this lead and resetting the control panel and boiler has not remedied the situation. The external start feature does not work even when connected to the correct terminal but I suspect its not actually connected to the tracker as there is an unconnected wire of the same colour in the other front bed locker next to the Sargent alarm. I have the caravan at home now so am running tests, but no matter what settings I use, if night mode is activated then when the system leaves night mode the pump runs for 2mins 38 secs and stops for 5mins 20 secs then runs for 2min 38 secs stops for 5mins 20 secs and continues this cycles for 30 mins or so whereupon it functions continuously until the desired temperature is reached. I ran this test this morning with both 3kw electric and gas activated but the gas burner did not light until the 30mins of off / on cycle ended. I suppose I could get around this issue by ending night mode 30 minutes earlier then needed but on a new caravan why should I. The other problem is that as soon as our dog hears the pump running its time for everyone to get up.

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2 hours ago, robhar said:

I did find that an external start lead had been connected to the load monitor terminals on the boiler, presumably at the Lunar factory but disconnecting this lead and resetting the control panel and boiler has not remedied the situation. 

 

My Clubman used to overshoot the set temperature which could get uncomfortable.  It took ages to find the problem and Alde helped by telephone.

 

We discovered that during initial programming, Lunar set the wrong pump.  I can now correct this manually.  But I have to always remember to do this after a factory reset as it will go back to what Lunar originally programmed it as.

 

So than you Lunar.

 

John

 

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Posted (edited)

I have run further tests this morning and it is exactly the same cycle after night mode ends of on for 2mins 38secs off for 5mins 22 secs repeated 4 times before the system acts normally. Once again the gas burner did not fire up until this cycle of on/off ended after 30 mins or so. The time consistency leads me to believe this is a software issue and not any sensor. If used without night mode activated, the system works fine on either gas, electric or both and cuts off the pump when the desired temperature is reached. 

Edited by robhar

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I have now found a Bailey Unicorn owner with the same issue (see Bailey forum if interested). He is taking his caravan to Alde HQ at end of May so hopefully we will have have a solution soon.

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Update for those interested.

Alde UK referred the issue to the R&D department in Sweden who say this is normal behaviour as the system is designed to have a smoothing function to prevent sudden changes in temperature when it changes between modes. Seems odd that technical support staff in the UK were unaware of this smoothing period and I know of one dealer who has changed a control panel believing this smoothing period to be a fault. I would love to know how many of you notice this 30 minute smoothing period when changing from night or day modes to default.

I must admit that I am not convinced by this explanation as if I set my system to heat with gas alone, the boiler does not fire up at all in the 30 minute period so there is no temperature change to smooth out. It has gone cold overnight whilst on a low setting in night mode and then does not heat up again until the end of night mode + 30 minutes.

 

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I don’t buy that either.  In very cold weather a caravan could lose many degrees in this half hour, can’t see how that’s smoothing or soothing.

 

As said above, I don’t find the modes convenient to use.  But when I did, I did not have your issues.

 

John

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, robhar said:

Update for those interested.

Alde UK referred the issue to the R&D department in Sweden who say this is normal behaviour as the system is designed to have a smoothing function to prevent sudden changes in temperature when it changes between modes. Seems odd that technical support staff in the UK were unaware of this smoothing period and I know of one dealer who has changed a control panel believing this smoothing period to be a fault. I would love to know how many of you notice this 30 minute smoothing period when changing from night or day modes to default.

I must admit that I am not convinced by this explanation as if I set my system to heat with gas alone, the boiler does not fire up at all in the 30 minute period so there is no temperature change to smooth out. It has gone cold overnight whilst on a low setting in night mode and then does not heat up again until the end of night mode + 30 minutes.

 

Yes I have noticed this on my 2015 VIP and also on my present 2019 VIP. 🤔 But it does cycle on/off during the night to retain the set temp 

Edited by kiaboy

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Hello. A smoothing period after switching from programmed modes has always been a feature on the 3020-series. However, the behaviour during this mode is slightly different, depending on the fluid temperature.

 

The less quickly the fluid sheds its heat (by transference into the air), the less power is injected into the fluid and less circulation occurs during the smoothing period. In the example above, on gas heating only, that can inject 6 kW into the fluid (a huge amount in most caravans), so will be used very daintily during the 30-minute smoothing period.

 

This more dainty behaviour is what most of our UK team hadn't noticed, since the systems we spend the most time with have a lot of heat emitters, from our test rig and prototype caravan, to the German A-classes in for retrofits.

 

But there are many computerised behaviours, similar to this, in the 3020-series, there to provide as intelligent heating as possible.

 

After all, high power is little benefit without control, and our ultimate aim is comfort.

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Sorry but this does not make sense. If the system has not actually cut in overnight the radiators are stone cold in the morning when it leaves Night mode and therefore there is no heat in the fluid to be shed. The on period of 2 - 3 mins is insufficient to inject any useful heat into the radiators and I have to wait 30 mins after Night mode ends before the system even starts to heat up. This is not intelligent heating, this is no heating at all until the 30 minutes have elapsed.

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4 minutes ago, robhar said:

Sorry but this does not make sense. If the system has not actually cut in overnight the radiators are stone cold in the morning when it leaves Night mode and therefore there is no heat in the fluid to be shed. The on period of 2 - 3 mins is insufficient to inject any useful heat into the radiators and I have to wait 30 mins after Night mode ends before the system even starts to heat up. This is not intelligent heating, this is no heating at all until the 30 minutes have elapsed.

 

I agree, it made no sense to me as well.  As I said before.  When I have used the night mode, in the morning mine simply came on at a higher temperature, no evidence of any ‘smoothing’.  Or the need for it.

 

The only reason I don’t use it is I don’t want my life to be dictated to by a clock.

 

John

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Posted (edited)

I’ve had the same response from Alde. I wonder if this has ever been tested in real life conditions? This morning, 30 mins after night mode had ended our van temp was 13.5. Night mode temp is 12c but I don’t know what the exact van temp was when night mode ended. Outside temp was 4c so I would expect it to have been 13c. 30 mins later the van temp was 18.5 using gas. Nothing that needs “smoothing out”.

 

Edited by Bobsandy
More info

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