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onbellyman

Carafax IDL 99 should not be used in contact with rubber???

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Hello all. My first post on this site following the discovery of an old discussion here called "Sealant?" By aquila, July 23, 2010 in Caravan Chat

The discussion related to the use of Carafax Caraseal IDL 99 non-drying bedding sealant to syringe around the window sealing rubber strip - something I want to do in addition to the original mastic which is already in situ under the rubber window strips of my 2008 Coachman Amara. I have bought some tubes of IDL 99 prior to finding that it may not be suitable!

 

My question is about a comment made at the time by a member called Reads, who said that this was not suitable for use in contact with rubber:

 

"Reads

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Posted July 23, 2010 (edited)

IDL 99 is not suitable for window rubbers. the rubbers absorb the additive which keeps the sealant "non-drying", therefore after 12-18mths the sealant will go hard and brittle and will dry out. it is for the same reason it should not be used on exterior moulding and extrusions which have a footing/gasket rubber fitted on the edges. this is why the majority of repairers have not used IDL for over 10 years now.

smp tape sealant should be used on window rubbers, exterior door frames or external accessory frames like BBQ points, rooflights, external 240v sockets.

either sikaflex or what we have been using for approx 12 yrs now is soudal fixall sealant should be used on exterior moulding and extrusions.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Reads"

 

Please can anyone (possibly Reads if He/She is still around) tell me more about this incompatibility with rubber?

I can't get any information from Carafax Ltd as all they have sent me is a Safety Data Sheet. Despite my asking, they say there is no Technical Data Sheet available and when I asked the question directly about whether it could be used in contact with rubber or not - there has been no reply.

 

If there is evidence that IDL 99 should not be used with rubber, is there another non-hardening sealant that can be?

 

 

 

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Cant answer re the Caravan but Reads are a caravan maintenance company so they should know what they are talking about.

What I can say is I have used the Soudal Fix All they recommended and it is excellent and is sold by, among others, The Range stores if you have one locally. Approx £5/the from memory.

Most dealers will sell Sikaflex but make sure you buy a (dated) tube which is still in date.

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14 minutes ago, VOLVOVANNER said:

Reads are a caravan maintenance company so they should know what they are talking about.

I believe you'll find that the Reads of Blackburn site is now home to

 Campbells Motorhomes but Shane (Reads) has not logged on to CT since July 2016.

Gordon.

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Posted (edited)

As with most things, better sealants have come on to the market over time, and experience in working on vans has taught most of us that do repairs that certain sealants are better than others in places.

 

IDL99 was , and I emphasise "was" regarded as a suitable sealants for things like rooflights, locker boxes and such as they stood the most chance of having to be replaced and IDL99 was a soft, non setting bedding mastic which was easily removed, but over time it does dry out and the advice was to reseal after 10 years, but again, weather conditions and other external forces could reduce that time period considerably.

 

Sikaflex was the next "big thing" in sealants, but it is a setting semi flexible mastic which once in place makes getting an item off again very difficult, and it has a very short storage lifetime.

 

Soudall then became, and still is, the best overall mastic to use in most instances, but it does have its drawbacks in as much as once its on, its ON and is very difficult to remove. However it is much easier to apply than Sikaflex as it is a creamier consistency which does not tend to run, which Sikaflex does, and is easier to tool to a neat finish.

 

Going back to IDL99, Reads (Shane) is quite right in what he said that IDL is not suitable for your particular use for the reasons he stated.

 

The main difference is that what was used was a bedding mastic, what is now used is a sealing mastic which gives a much longer useful life.

 

It is also very important to remember that new mastic will not stick to old mastic !!!!

Edited by Brecon

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Hi all.

Thank you for your replies.

I have used the Soudal Fixall to great effect in other parts of the van and been pleased with its results but, as you say Brecon, it is very difficult to remove once set!

I have today used the IDL 99 for the first time, not in contact with rubber but because I wanted to fill a void between the plastic wheel arch liner and the inside of the wall over the wheel arch with something that would not set solid. It went in ok and I hope it will do the job in this particular location but when I took the cartridge from the gun I found a load of the mastic had squeezed past the side of the plug in the cartridge and clogged around the piston of the gun. A right mess to clean the gun and a waste of the mastic. I wouldn't bother using this stuff again as it is so messy!

I haven't given up entirely on trying to find a product suitable for use in contact with a rubber seal so further research needed. I just wanted something I could use as a "Quick fix" really to seal the front window rubbers before using the van in May and August. After that I can take the time to strip and fit new rubbers. 

Will report back if I find anything.

 

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Posted (edited)

Why do you feel the need to use anything on the window rubbers? 

It is unusual for water to get in around them as they have a sealant inside which seals the outer rubber against the van wall.

However, if you are getting water in, then it is most likely to be coming in elsewhere, and the usual suspect is the roof strap, or behind the window hinge.

 

If you intend replacing the rubbers anyway, it seems a waste of time and money , as well as adding several hours cleaning up before fitting the new rubbers.

 

It is worth noting that as you had a lot of IDL 99 coming back into the gun past the plunger you were using it in too cold conditions.

All gun applied mastics need a minimum 10 degrees to exit the gun cleanly

Edited by Brecon

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Most of the water leaks I've seen have been by capillary action between the rubber and the window and sorted by cleaning and restoring the rubber and cleaning the window, if leaking under the seal by replacing the rubber.

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Just recently the annual service found damp at side (dinette) window. Investigated and wallboard soft.

Bit the bullet and started removing wallboard.  Found very rotten timber down side of window and partial along bottom.

Was told to suspect lap joint in aluminium skin (running full length of van just above the level of top of windows) or window hinge strip or window rubber seal. Having cleaned and resealed the lap joint and hinge strip, when I removed the window rubber it was easily seen where the original white mastic had failed at top corner of window. I have bought new rubber seal and now in the process of fitting new timber battens, plywood wallboard then (if time allows before I take the van on holiday) will have to source vinyl wallpaper to finish the job.

Can't get any of the original wallboard (Coachman "Barton") despite numerous enquiries. Will have to get wallpaper as close to original as possible.

While doing all this I bought my own Protimeter to test for damp. Found massive high readings around all 3 front windows. Looks like i will need to strip complete front end and do the whole "Damp Rebuild" thing but this will have to wait until I can pick time and weather to do the job.

Hence my thought of injecting some non-hardening mastic around the 3 front window rubbers to help stop any further water ingress at these points until I can do a proper fix.

Point taken about applying sealants at certain temperatures but when time is of the essence, one can't always wait until the conditions are correct. The temp in the van yesterday morning was only 2 deg C and had to wait until 4.00 in the afternoon before temp was warm enough (didn't get to 10 deg though) to attempt doing anything. Prior to using I warmed the mastic tube. It came out of the nozzle easily and was sticking where I wanted it to. I wasn't pleased when I found it had also come past the plug inside the tube in such copious amounts!

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