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yorkyguy

Habitation Door Catch Problems (2018 Swift Challenger)

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Now then!

We have a 2018 Challenger Dealer Special and the outer opening flap only releases the inner catch when pulled out to its full travel. This has worsened over a short time. I am aware that very soon it will become inoperative as it fails completely i.e. opening the door is impossible! I contacted the dealer and they have very little or no workshop time for about a month and a half! (We are out next week!) In fairness, I talked to the service manager and he promised to call me tomorrow. If a cupboard knob falls off, life goes on but being effectively locked out of a van whilst touring isn't funny.

Has anyone had a similar problem and, more importantly done a DIY fix without having to lug their van on a four hour round trip to a dealer to sort this out? I'm fine with the spanners and tools and would prefer to repair it/replace the lock  myself if possible.

Cheers all!

IMG_1691[1].JPG

IMG_1692[1].JPG

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I believe what you have is a Hartal Evoline door lock, and if so another member has reported a problem where the outer plastic chrome handle has broken. Replacements are available but they are expensive (around £150 for the complete lock) so if it is possible, a repair would be preferable. The outer handle is available separately if that is where the fault is.

Personally I would be inclined to investigate myself as it sounds like either there is a misalignment inside the lock, or a component has worn excessively. Either way a repair may be possible.

2018 Swift Challenger Door Handle.jpg

Hartal Evoline outer door lock handle.

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Many thanks Gordon,

Just phoned my dealer and they have a lock in stock - so - I will investigate. Do you have any info on dismantling or I'll Google Hartal and see what comes up!

Thanks again,

Bri

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I have a Bailey Senator 2019 that i bought recently... my van is fitted with a Hartal door lock... and Ihave had similar problems with the outer handle not opening the door properly.  The problem appears to be bad design and construction. Small amounts of wear (or just sloppy manufacture?) Are amplified by the levers in the mechanism. Plus lack of any grease!  To remove the lock work from the inside. Prise off the large piece of trim covering two screws near the edge of the door....   then i had to struggle to prise off red and green covers over the other 2 screws. Unscrew all 4 screws and remove the lock.  Don't forget to hold the outside assembly as you do! After much examination... i concluded my problem was slop!  So i keyed the plastic and used a fast set epoxy  (& I baked gently to speed up the setting) to fix two steel shims onto the mechanism. I used a bit of "car body repair panel" for my shims. I used a piece of wood to take the spring pressure off the assembly whilst the epoxy set. I greased all moving parts and refitted to my van.  Warning... do not overtighten the screws or the plastic lock  will bow and become stiff and stick.... 

Sorry i am using my phone right now. Although the photo is only 3.6mb... the forum is spitting its dummy. I will be upload a photo tomorrow to show where i fitted the shims.

Result: my door lock is now working ok... i wont say perfectly because I doubt that it ever could... IMHO its bad  design! A new lock (inner and outer) is about £60 on official Bailey site... but this is still cheaper than Ebay. spacer.pngspacer.png

 

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19 hours ago, yorkyguy said:

Many thanks Gordon,

Just phoned my dealer and they have a lock in stock - so - I will investigate. Do you have any info on dismantling or I'll Google Hartal and see what comes up!

I think "Electric Warrior" has summarised things well. I've not had anything to do with the latest Hartel locks but on the previous design, removal of the four black screws inside is all that was needed to separate the two halves of the lock that clamp through the door.

Gordon  

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Posted (edited)

Ok, I'm on a PC now with a real keyboard - and real software!

 

I have reduced the size and orientation of the photo - This is what I did... (see my previous posting about the method).  It works fine now.... The "shims" take up the slop with no apparent side effects. 

 

The grease smooths the operation.

 

The wood is just taking the strain from the springs whilst the Epoxy sets...

 

I cut the shims from a handy piece of steel with some tin snips, flattened with a hammer to ensure good seating (always bends when you cut with snips), I keyed the steel and the plastic with a stanley knife to help the epoxy.  I used JB-Weld (fast) and then I put it under my Kitchen gas grill (under the pan so it didn't burn) to bake it off (not too hot!)  (My wife was out, so she was not there to complain!)

 

The "purple" background is the top of my "outdoor workbench"...  Does anyone else find these flat top wheely bins really useful for outdoor work ?  I use mine all the time !  I should try to fit one in my caravan to help with "running repairs" :)

 

Hartal Doorlock Fix 20190408.jpg

Edited by Electric Warrior
Added more text
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I there EW

Only just seen your reply  - been away from the van. Cor thanks for the details - I will digest these and act accordingly. Isn't it really disappointing that on our 2018 and 2019 vans they can't design and fit a proper lock that doesn't need DIY repairs and is fit for purpose.

I'll get back with progress.

 

Cheers YG 

 

Hi there EW

Only just seen your reply  - been away from the van. Cor thanks for the details - I will digest these and act accordingly. Isn't it really disappointing that on our 2018 and 2019 vans they can't design and fit a proper lock that doesn't need DIY repairs and is fit for purpose.

I'll get back with progress.

 

Cheers YG 

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I haven't been away in the van since I fixed the lock... but I have been carrying our improvements and repairs since.... and I have been int an out of it many times... and locking it in between...  and its working  well - much better than before...  Yes I agree.. you would think the manufactures would try to get things "right" - but of course if they did that... few of use would buy new vans... it make you think - doesn't it ?   My van is December 2009 - The manufactures obviously don't care!  They want you to dump the old one in the expectation (hope) that a new van will be better !

 

Contact me if you can't follow anything I said...

 

I've "beefed" up all my shelves today by screwing some wood strips along the top of each shelf... (small screws underneath).  I noticed that the "shelves" in the cupboard relied on a plastic strip to "re-enforce" them to stop them "bowing"... this doesn't work - it falls off in transit! - A bit of pine strip (20mm x 12,mm [approx]) (fitted to the top) screwed (underneath) to the shelf behind the plastic support [small screws] makes them "rock hard" plus it stops things falling out of the cupboard when you open the door after travelling! (I did a test on a couple of cupboards on our last outing)

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9 hours ago, Electric Warrior said:

The manufactures obviously don't care!  They want you to dump the old caravan in the expectation (hope) that a new van will be better !

Unfortunately if that was the intention it has backfired, because after many many years of UK caravans I moved to a foreign product in 2010, and although I have replaced our MH again since then, again I did not buy one built in the UK, primarily because of the all too common leaking bodywork issues. 

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Hi there again EW,

Is your van a 2009 or 2019? If you have had 10yrs service from the lock then well done! If only a few months/weeks then I'd better get the tools out!

 

Cheers,

Bri

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Whatever you do don't use WD40 on any Hartal locks,they told me that.

 

Geoff

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EW wrote December 2009 so unless I overslept this morning by a year, it will be 2009 and not 2019.

 

Our 2011 caravan has a Hartel lock and that has never fully pulled the latch in so the door opens easily. I did file the end of the latch down to help but having read the above posts, maybe it is caused by too much slack in the mechanism.

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Hi there EW.

How did you access the screws to remove the lock? Are they behind the large plastic cover (and a smaller oval insert)? if so is it a 'simple' prize off of these two plastic components to reveal the fittings inside the van?

Cheers

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Posted (edited)

My van is a Bailey Senator (S6) 2009... and I am the 3rd owner - but it doesn't look like it's had all that much use... and had very little additions / modifications (until I got hold of it).

 

Yes, you have the prise the plastic covers off... I had a big "crescent" (or oval) shaped one, near the edge of the door... that was easy... I also had a "red" and a "green"(screwhead sized) cover over the other screws... these were ********* to get off - but they HAVE to come out!

3 hours ago, yorkyguy said:

Hi there again EW,

Is your van a 2009 or 2019? If you have had 10yrs service from the lock then well done! If only a few months/weeks then I'd better get the tools out!

 

Cheers,

Bri

 

1 hour ago, yorkyguy said:

Hi there EW.

How did you access the screws to remove the lock? Are they behind the large plastic cover (and a smaller oval insert)? if so is it a 'simple' prize off of these two plastic components to reveal the fittings inside the van?

Cheers

 

2 hours ago, shipbroker said:

Whatever you do don't use WD40 on any Hartal locks,they told me that.

 

Geoff

My van is a Bailey Senator (S6) 2009... and I am the 3rd owner - but it doesn't look like it's had all that much use... and had very little additions / modifications (until I got hold of it).

 

Yes, you have the prise the plastic covers off... I had a big "crescent" (or oval) shaped one, near the edge of the door... that was easy... I also had a "red" and a "green"(screwhead sized) cover over the other screws... these were ********* to get off - but they HAVE to come out!

 

No WD 40 ?  I tried that first! - I can't see why not really - it's just standard plastic and metal - but NO lube at all... hence my reason for using grease... I used a quality "general purpose" car grease applied with my fingers...

Edited by Electric Warrior
clarity

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Posted (edited)

Thanks all for you input.

I've fixed it!

For all you out there with sloppy door catches, this might help.

1. Carefully pry out the plastic 'oval' to reveal two screws. Remove these.

2. Carefully remove the centre grey circular cover off the internal handle

3. Remove three screws securing the 'chrome' surround remove and pull off the handle. (You will have to reposition the spring inside the plastic lug or the lock wont work on reassembly) .Note its position. 

4. Remove 4 screws and lift off the square black lock assembly and the outer handle and seal..

I found that nothing was broken or worn but there was about 1/4 inch of 'slop' between the release roller and the plastic lug which releases the catch.

I made a nylon block, attached it with Araldite to the upstand of the lug and checked the play between roller and lug. The roller now contacts the release lug.

5. Reassemble in reverse order and Robert is your Father's brother!!

See pics. 

1.jpg

2.jpg

3a.jpeg

4a.jpeg

 

Edited by yorkyguy
Detail

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YorkGuy - Well done... that lock looks "similar" - but is quite different in places - but it sounds like they have the same sloppy "cantilever" problems that  a bit "shimming" can fix... the annoying thing is really that you shouldn't have to - especially with a "new" van!

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Posted (edited)

Cheers EW,

Stripping the lock off on a van that isn't a year old yet does  go against the grain, but 4 hours round trip and a day drinking coffee at the dealership versus an hour in the garage knowing full well that you are not left with the same problem is a no brainer really!  - AND the production fault is solved with nylon (not plastic) against the release roller!

Edited by yorkyguy

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4 hours ago, Electric Warrior said:

No WD 40 ?  I tried that first! - I can't see why not really - it's just standard plastic and metal

 

Your assumption that "its just standard plastic " is completely wrong.

Plastic used in the caravan industry is anything but standard.

It hates WD40 anywhere near it and will swell and completely ruin what may have been salvageable.

 

There is no place for WD40  in any caravan related application.

It is NOT a lubricant despite some claims that it is.

There are plenty of proper lubricants for specific purposes which should always be used .

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Thank-you for the advice.... i will bear it in mind... but where does that leave us with the advice: The only things you need in your toolbox is a roll of gaffer tape... and a can of wd40? ☺

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4 minutes ago, Electric Warrior said:

Thank-you for the advice.... i will bear it in mind... but where does that leave us with the advice: The only things you need in your toolbox is a roll of gaffer tape... and a can of wd40? ☺

 

Throw away the WD40 water dispersant and replace with WD40 silicon lubricant, or better still buy some GT85

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Anyway, to the point of the OP, the lock is 'fixed' (or upgraded) at no cost other than time spent!

Happy days - lets go 'vanning

 

:Thankyou:

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13 minutes ago, Paul_B said:

 

Throw away the WD40 water dispersant and replace with WD40 silicon lubricant, or better still buy some GT85

I wasn't aware they made a silicon version... but i am now... just searched ebay. Ive been using a thetford toilet seal spray i bought years ago ...  for awning lube etc. but its almost out...

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Damn!

Went to get in the van this morning. The pull catch wouldn't open the door! - but the key would. Stripped the lock AGAIN and found that the long pivot on the door handle has a retaining  allen key which holds the spindle in place. It had slackened off allowing the release roller to swivel on the actuating rod. i.e you can pull he door latch but the roller doesn't move. I tightened up he allen key, put back the lock and its firm and has a positive throw on the latch. However, how long before it slackens off again! Don't you just love these naff plastic bits!  - (or the self tappers strip out the plastic threads!! :angry:)

Has anyone araldited the pivot in place? That might stop the thing slackening off!!

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3 minutes ago, yorkyguy said:

However, how long before it slackens off again! Don't you just love these naff plastic bits!  - (or the self tappers strip out the plastic threads!! :angry:)

Has anyone araldited the pivot in place? That might stop the thing slackening off!!

Rather than using "epoxy" which is a little drastic (!) - why not use some "thread lock" ?  - A car accessory shop (or ebay) should sell i t- it will lock the threads, but not "forever" like epoxy! You will be able to break the seal should you ever have to!

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