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ivan leslie

Green Card for the Caravan - Latest Government advice

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1 hour ago, Lutz said:

 

But without a Green Card for the caravan how is anybody abroad going to know?

Because of the car it's attached to - once it's unattached it doesn't need insurance.

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when towing the green card will be endorsed with F and caravan details "make, model"

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Mine is.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Black Grouse said:

Because of the car it's attached to - once it's unattached it doesn't need insurance.

 

I'm afraid it does because even if it is attached, it could cause an accident without the car itself being involved. For instance, if you cut a corner while towing and the caravan, but not the car, damages another vehicle then the owner of that other vehicle would claim against the insurance on the caravan, not on that on the car, if it's any different. Therefore one has to be able to prove that the caravan itself is insured against third party risks.

Besides, without insurance coverage of its own, it would be illegal to park unhitched on a public road on the Continent. Every vehicle, whether driven or stationary must be covered by third party insurance unless it stands on private property.

 

Edited by Lutz

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36 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

I'm afraid it does because even if it is attached, it could cause an accident without the car itself being involved. For instance, if you cut a corner while towing and the caravan, but not the car, damages another vehicle then the owner of that other vehicle would claim against the insurance on the caravan, not on that on the car, if it's any different. Therefore one has to be able to prove that the caravan itself is insured against third party risks.

Besides, without insurance coverage of its own, it would be illegal to park unhitched on a public road on the Continent. Every vehicle, whether driven or stationary must be covered by third party insurance unless it stands on private property.

 

I don't believe that is true. The caravan is covered by the car insurance while it is being towed so, in your example, the claim if you cut a corner it would be on the car insurance. The car insurance covers all 3rd party risks for both vehicles - the caravan insurance would pay for damage to the caravan but not the 3rd party claim. Hence the reason the car insurer has to supply the green card for the caravan, even if it is not insured with them! 

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If you cut the corner and damage another car with your caravan your car insurance pays for the damaged car and your caravan insurance pays for the caravan.

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11 minutes ago, AndersG said:

If you cut the corner and damage another car with your caravan your car insurance pays for the damaged car and your caravan insurance pays for the caravan.

I think that is what I said.

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If a TRAILER is attached to any insured towing vehicle in the U.K. then it is deemed to be part of the towing vehicle. As such any damage caused by the trailer is covered by the towing vehicles insurance whether in the U.K. or a huge list of Continental European Countries.

 

I have just checked the Green Card that LV issued to me a few weeks ago for my forthcoming trip. Under category of vehicle it lists TWO, those being a.) car and f.) trailer.

 

In law there is no difference between a £100 unbraked  garden rubbish type trailer and £100k+ Airstream caravan they are both “Trailers” 

 

The totally stupid thing is that the “Green Card” is printed ONLY in English!! So how the heck any any Bulgarian/Estonian/Finnish or just about any other non English speaking copper is going to understand what it says is, to put in mildly, pretty remote isn’t it??

 

Its all pretty academic in my view anyway as there is no way Brexit is going to happen for years, if ever!! 

 

Andy

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9 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

If a TRAILER is attached to any insured towing vehicle in the U.K. then it is deemed to be part of the towing vehicle. As such any damage caused by the trailer is covered by the towing vehicles insurance whether in the U.K. or a huge list of Continental European Countries.

 

I have just checked the Green Card that LV issued to me a few weeks ago for my forthcoming trip. Under category of vehicle it lists TWO, those being a.) car and f.) trailer.

 

In law there is no difference between a £100 unbraked  garden rubbish type trailer and £100k+ Airstream caravan they are both “Trailers” 

 

The totally stupid thing is that the “Green Card” is printed ONLY in English!! So how the heck any any Bulgarian/Estonian/Finnish or just about any other non English speaking copper is going to understand what it says is, to put in mildly, pretty remote isn’t it??

 

Its all pretty academic in my view anyway as there is no way Brexit is going to happen for years, if ever!! 

 

Andy

Re the insurance, I think is what I said. Re the green card, as has been said on earlier posts, LV are now issuing two separate documents for the car and trailer - are you getting these?

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1 hour ago, Lutz said:

 

Besides, without insurance coverage of its own, it would be illegal to park unhitched on a public road on the Continent. Every vehicle, whether driven or stationary must be covered by third party insurance unless it stands on private property.

 

 

I THINK you will find that the matter of insurance only applies to a MOTOR vehicle. That being defined as

“A mechanically propelled vehicle made adapted or intended for use upon a highway’ 

 

A caravan clearly does not fit into that definition.

 

Clearly a U.K. caravan does not require its own insurance in France. If it did the caravan insurers would be only too happy to ask us all at renewal time if we intend going abroad with it AND if so whack us with an additional premium !!

 

Andy

 

3 minutes ago, ivan leslie said:

Re the green card, as has been said on earlier posts, LV are now issuing two separate documents for the car and trailer - are you getting these?

 

As my current green card clearly shows car AND trailer under categories I can’t see the need for yet another one. I have tried ringing them to enquire but it’s a recorded message with the email address. Next task is sending said email! 

 

Andy

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25 minutes ago, ivan leslie said:

I think that is what I said.

I know. I was responding to Lutz.

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OK....history,but mine, some years ago ,in France, we had a priority au droit accident. The car was undamaged but the Frenchman hit the side of the caravan and his front end received some mauling as did my caravan.........

It took two years but the claim was made,by the French, not against, my car ( which was a garage loan car) but the caravan and the insurers of said caravan,Saga, paid up,

 

geoff  

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I wonder what would have happened if you didn’t have any insurance on your caravan?

 

Andy

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8 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

I wonder what would have happened if you didn’t have any insurance on your caravan?

 

Andy

 

I would have the bill in full!.....total on the 'van was around £3700,replacement side, and the car £2000!

 

geoff

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I can understand you having to foot the bill for the caravan if it was uninsured, but to the best of my knowledge it’s your car insurance that would have had to pay out for the damage to Frenchies motor!

 

Just a thought, was your car ALSO insured with SAGA, if so it all makes sense,

 

Andy

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Usually under the RTA liabilities the tow vehicle insurance is legally bound to cover the trailer for third party while on a public highway .

 

It is not a guarantee that a trailer is covered under the tow vehicles insurance policy if it is stated in the policy that the policy does not cover trailers for third party liability . This why it is recommended that company vehicles insurance should be checked that the underwriters will cover the vehicle some don't .

 

 

Dave

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mr Plodd said:

Just a thought, was your car ALSO insured with SAGA, if so it all makes sense,

 

No, it was insured through Cornhill by the garage that loaned me it.

(The 'cat' had been stolen two days before I left and they gave me a new car and fitted a tow bar and insured it!)

geoff

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2 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

If a TRAILER is attached to any insured towing vehicle in the U.K. then it is deemed to be part of the towing vehicle. As such any damage caused by the trailer is covered by the towing vehicles insurance whether in the U.K. or a huge list of Continental European Countries.

 

I have just checked the Green Card that LV issued to me a few weeks ago for my forthcoming trip. Under category of vehicle it lists TWO, those being a.) car and f.) trailer.

 

In law there is no difference between a £100 unbraked  garden rubbish type trailer and £100k+ Airstream caravan they are both “Trailers” 

 

The totally stupid thing is that the “Green Card” is printed ONLY in English!! So how the heck any any Bulgarian/Estonian/Finnish or just about any other non English speaking copper is going to understand what it says is, to put in mildly, pretty remote isn’t it??

 

Its all pretty academic in my view anyway as there is no way Brexit is going to happen for years, if ever!! 

 

Andy

 

Actually you've answered the question yourself. If the Green Card states Category A it's valid for the car and Category F is valid for the caravan. I suppose that in the case of a UK insurance the Green Card would show A+F.

 

The Bulgarian/Estonian/Finnish copper will also know what Category A and F are. The format of all Green Cards is the same, whichever language they are printed in.

2 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

I wonder what would have happened if you didn’t have any insurance on your caravan?

 

Andy

 

In some countries, an uninsured vehicle on a public road is an imprisonable offence.

 

On the Continent, at least in those countries that I know of, third party insurance coverage is a requirement for all vehicles on a public road, whether motorised or not (except bicycles), although the level of mandatory coverage does vary from country to country.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

....... to the best of my knowledge it’s your car insurance that would have had to pay out for the damage to Frenchies motor!

 

 

Of course that would only apply to a UK outfit.

Edited by Lutz

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

Actually you've answered the question yourself. If the Green Card states Category A it's valid for the car and Category F is valid for the caravan. I suppose that in the case of a UK insurance the Green Card would show A+F.

 

The Bulgarian/Estonian/Finnish copper will also know what Category A and F are. The format of all Green Cards is the same, whichever language they are printed in.

 

This might highlight the trailer insurance liabilities . I have always said how we can tow a 8m possibly upto 3500 kg 365 days a year thousands of miles with no extra charge for third party liability when all we are paying is the risk on the tow vehicle .

 

Or a third party cover on 5th wheel caravan at 12 m long with no weight restriction and only insurance is the risk on the vehicle on the premium .

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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38 minutes ago, CommanderDave said:

 

This might highlight the trailer insurance liabilities . I have always said how we can tow a 8m possibly upto 3500 kg 365 days a year thousands of miles with no extra charge for third party liability when all we are paying is the risk on the tow vehicle .

 

Or a third party cover on 5th wheel caravan at 12 m long with no weight restriction and only insurance is the risk on the vehicle on the premium .

 

 

Dave

 

Fair enough, but you've got to be able to prove that the trailer is covered, too, and you can only do that with a Green Card. It's the only internationally accepted proof. Outside the UK the copper will most probably not know that the trailer is automatically covered by the insurance on a UK registered towing vehicle.

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Posted (edited)

If insurance companies now have to issue hundreds of thousands of green cards for trailers and caravans to go to EU who's going to pay for the administration ? As said I can tow any trailer and get third party cover for free at no extra charge .

 

 

How much do you pay in Europe to cover a trailer third party liabilities ?

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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1 minute ago, CommanderDave said:

If insurance companies now have to issue hundreds of thousands of green cards for trailers and caravans to go to EU who's going to pay ? As said I can tow any trailer and get third party cover for free at no extra charge .

 

 

How much do you pay in Europe to cover a trailer third party liabilities ?

 

 

Dave

 

It hardly costs a fortune to issue a Green Card.

 

For my 750kg flatbed trailer, which I only insure third party, I pay €13 a year and that automatically includes the Green Card valid all year.

The third party portion of the insurance on my 1800kg caravan is also €13

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Andy,

Cornhill were garage insurers,and also mine...Saga covered the caravan.

I rang both from France and was told to send a copy of the formal Accident Document to them on my return ( this was first day of a 6 week trip!). Cornhill were named along with policy number on the report as was the French drivers cover.

 

On return I did that and had conversations with both as obviously the caravan damage needed repair,no damage at all to car. Saga appointed an independent agent in France to 'negotiate' but in the meantime agreed repairs. After a month I heard from Cornhill to the effect that they had heard nothing from French insurers and did I want it kept on the books? Saga advised difficulties but would keep trying which meant it was about 8 months later that they had to agree I was in the wrong, according to French Law, Cornhill didn't even get a phone call!

 

geoff

The one amusing thing, well it is now, was that Henri rushed into the adjoining pharmacy and rang the police..two hours later when I was about to leave the pharmacist came out and said the police had been on and asked who was in the accident.. An English driver....Is he dead, NO....well we are not coming then!

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Update on our application to Aegeas for a Green Card.

Yesterday I was told by Aegeas that as a towed vehicle was automatically included on my policy I did not need a separate card for the caravan. I queried this, the manager was consulted and still no details required, was assured all was in order.

 

Having read the several comments here, on the CMC site and on Gov UK I began to doubt the Aegeas advice and this morning rang back to check that it had indeed been noted that I was towing a caravan. A very helpful gentleman assured me that it had been noted that we were towing, that he did not need any details of the caravan and be assured all was in order.

 

I was just mulling over what to do next when the phone rang, caller ID showed an unknown number and then my mobile rang, showing the same unknown number . Now aware that someone was really needing to speak to me I answered and it was the helpful gentleman from Aegeas. 

 

He had checked with his manager and it appears that new guidelines had been issued overnight and they certainly do want the caravan details to add to the Green Card. Only the one card though, not two as is suggested by other companies and Gov UK.

 

I shall now wait to see if I have another call offering me a second card but in the meantime I am happy that all the necessary details are on the one card and I shall be taking my CMC caravan insurance documents with me as back up.

 

Once everyone knows what they are doing I assume there will be some standardisation and we will all have the same paperwork -and  hopefully less of it.

 

 

 

 

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