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Paul90125

MTPLM Update

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OK, I'm confused. Having read the lengthy thread started by Mr Plodd and now this one, is my caravan 'labelled' properly. As can be seen from the pics, my Unicorn Valencia seems to have a noseweight of 77Kgs, but the stated maximum noseweight in the brochure is 100Kgs. Which one is correct?

Also why do the Type Approval details not match?

Any help would be gratefully received.

Van VIN label.JPG

Van side label.JPG

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Posted (edited)

No the labelling on the top (statutory) plate is incorrect.

Firstly, the acronym MTPLM shouldn't appear, nor should the words 'axle' (but that's a minor issue)

Secondly, the maximum noseweight is designated as axle 0, not axle 1 and what they call axle 2 is actually axle 1.

Thirdly, it is unlikely that Bailey meant to limit the noseweight to 77kg, but that is what they've done.

Also, you have identified an inconsistency between the two type approval numbers, which doesn't make sense 

 

Actually, the whole plate is nonsense really because in order to be able to make full use of the plated MTPLM of 1550kg, both the noseweight and the axle load must be right at their absolute limits, leaving no leeway for any load distribution.

 

It would be interesting to know how Bailey can explain all the above.

Edited by Lutz

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Lutz is correct however in the first picture a payload of 77kg seems to be very low?

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IB I suspect your Unicorn was built just after UK manufacturers had to start featuring a Type Approved plate. Like all the other UK makers Bailey chose to put such a plate in their van's gas locker, whilst continuing to  exhibit the NCC format plate on the exterior by the door. Bailey have carried on with this practice as have several other major builders, but in 2017 Hymer UK and Lunar both decided to amalgamate the two plates and use one plate on the exterior, by the door.

 

Unfortunately for the first year or so the info provided by Bailey on their gas locker plate was complete rubbish. Whether this was because they didn't understand the regulations or were thumbing their nose at them I couldn't say. As said Axle 0 should be the noseweight limit and Axle 1 the Axle Limit on a single axle van. Axle 2 is the weight limit if the van has a second axle. If it's a single axle van Axle 2 should read 0. 

 

For some reason Bailey got the allocation of weights to titles totally incorrect and seemed to think the should specify an 'ideal' noseweight and 'ideal' axle load, rather than their absolute limits as required by the regs. Happily after about 12 months someone in Bristol actually read the regulations and they started fitting gas locker plates with the right info., however AFAIK they've never sought to correct their errors by issuing affected owners with corrected gas locker plates.  

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Islandboy

 

Steamdriven Andy has it spot on!

 

The type approved MTPLM will be the one on the top picture at 1550kg and that particular caravan is SOLD with a “Manufacturer Defined” MTPLM of 1493kg (which they are entitled to do) as shown on the external plate. If you exceed that weight (1493) you are likely to face prosecution (weight or driving licence regs) 

 

HOWEVER

For about 60 quid Bailey will provide you with a new external weight plate showing an MTPLM of 1550kg and a new certificate of conformity. At that point, AND NOT BEFORE, you will legally be allowed to run it at 1550kg.

 

Yes it IS a ridiculous situation but it’s how things stand at the moment, Don’t blame me! I have tried (very hard) to get it sort of sorted, as per my previous thread. 

 

Andy

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Thanks for the replies everybody, I thought I was going nuts!! 

I will get in touch with Bailey to see if I can get some clarification regarding the differences between the two plates.

I am aware that I cannot exceed the “Manufacturer Defined” MTPLM of 1493kg  and I am looking to upgrade to the 1550Kg limit. That must be the easiest £60 Bailey will earn. But that will not correct the noseweight figure of 77Kgs - perhaps they would like to replace that plate FOC;) so that it makes sense.

Here's hoping!

I'll report back when I get a reply from Bailey.

 

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Two cautionary thoughts:

 

  1. Some manufacturers (not sure if Bailey is one of them) refuse to issue an upgrade on what they regards as older vans.
  2. Bailey customer service gave out all sorts of spurious rubbish when the figures on their gas locker plates were queried when they were initially discovered. If you contact them you may find they're still spouting rubbish about them. 

 

 

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On ‎20‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 06:34, Paul90125 said:

The caravan we are planning to buy has an MTPLM of 1100 kg, but can be increased to 13000 kg. As our car can tow this, we are planning on having the upgrade at purchase. Am I right in my assumption that this doesn’t alter the caravan structure at all, and just consists of a new sticker to cover the original MTPLM plate. I’d heard that the max MTPLM was based on the weight the axles of the caravan can manage. The lower MTPLM quoted was just to emphasise the “lightness” of the caravan for “smaller” tow cars. Is that correct? Thanks.

Paul

 

I've had two upgrades a Unicorn from 1565kg to 1600kg, with just an increase in tyre pressure. (1600kg axle)

And a Swift at 1636kg up to 1700kg with no increase in pressure. (1700kg axle)

 

Both SA caravans.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

Islandboy

 

Steamdriven Andy has it spot on!

 

The type approved MTPLM will be the one on the top picture at 1550kg and that particular caravan is SOLD with a “Manufacturer Defined” MTPLM of 1493kg (which they are entitled to do) as shown on the external plate. If you exceed that weight (1493) you are likely to face prosecution (weight or driving licence regs) 

 

 

However, if touring the Continent, only the statutory plate (in this case 1550kg) will apply as that is the only one that is internationally understood. One cannot expect a French flic to know what MTPLM means.

Edited by Lutz
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Hi everyone,

As promised, here is the text of the email I've just received from Bailey:

Dear Mr Phillips

 

Thank you for your email.

 

We have looked into this for you and agree the weight plate in the gas locker is incorrect and I have a correct plate to send you. I will put that in the post for you. If you can forward me your address and will send that our straight away.

 

Kind Regards

Jo Barrington
Customer Services Co-ordinator

 

Whilst this is good news as far as the Gas Locker label is concerned, it is interesting to note that he/she hasn't addressed the other issues I highlighted in my original query. So I've asked that they be addressed.

 

The CoC and the Statutory plate also state that the Type Approval is e13*2007/46*1206*07*03 but on the label by the habitation door the Type Approval is e13*2007/46*1206*05. Which one(s) are correct?

The other anomaly is the MRO - on the door label (and in your brochure) it is 1339Kgs but on the CoC it is 1347Kgs - which is correct? So, either your CoC is incorrect or your label by the door (and your brochure) are incorrect.

 

Hopefully I'll get a positive outcome on these as well.

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Sounds like Bailey are confusing themselves with all these plates and figures and the smoke is getting in their eyes . Ridiculous that a manufacturer can get in this state but sums up the whole of our caravan manufacturers ?

 

Owners can be prosecuted on these figures on these plates as they are used as evidence and how can owners get it right when they can't .

 

 

 

Dave

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46 minutes ago, CommanderDave said:

Sounds like Bailey are confusing themselves with all these plates and figures and the smoke is getting in their eyes . Ridiculous that a manufacturer can get in this state but sums up the whole of our caravan manufacturers ?

Owners can be prosecuted on these figures on these plates as they are used as evidence and how can owners get it right when they can't .

Dave

As it is a stick on label I would think that it si just as easy to remove it and keep the DVSA guessing if stopped.  They would then check the load rating on the tyres and if okay you would probably be allowed on your way as I don't think there is any legislation to cover a sticker on the body of a caravan?

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On 05/04/2019 at 12:29, Durbanite said:

As it is a stick on label I would think that it si just as easy to remove it and keep the DVSA guessing if stopped.  They would then check the load rating on the tyres and if okay you would probably be allowed on your way as I don't think there is any legislation to cover a sticker on the body of a caravan?

 

Legislation only requires a statutory plate on a readily accessible and not easily replaceable part of the caravan structure. It makes no mention of any particular location.

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