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Speeding in France

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24 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

I was under the impression that the 3.5 tonne limit applies to each vehicle individually, not to the complete combination.

That is what we were told by someone who visits France on a regular basis as some caravan sites are in the actual town!

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Interesting to know if we have reciprocal arrangements with France, Italy, Germany,Spain, I only mention those countries as they are the only ones I would visit

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17 hours ago, The road toad said:

So, keep to the speed limits and there is no problem or is that too obvious a solution?

Such helpful tips, We are lucky to have you on this forum :ph34r:

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17 hours ago, Lutz said:

 

It wasn't a speeding offence that I was supposed to have committed. Apparently I drove down a street open to local residents only.

 

  Watch out for one of these signs!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sauf+riverains&tbm=isch&source=hp&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwir1JvChYThAhXxw1kKHXHDBKYQsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=1735&bih=884

 

 John.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Durbanite said:

That may be correct but how would you know if you were genuinely caught speeding and that it was not a made up ticket?  An American friend of mind received a speeding ticket to his USA address via the hire car company however it turned out to be a scam.  What alerted him was the fact that although they had driven on that road the time stamp was wrong and way out.  As said I am not condoning speeding and if the ticket is justified then pay it, but getting the ticket several months later is not on.

 

Scam speeding tickets?   :rolleyes: Whatever next?  We are talking the EU not some bush state in Africa.

 

The French are clamping down heavily on speeding and on foreign drivers in particular. There are now 400+ unmarked cars in use throughout France which can record vehicle speeds in both directions, multi-lane and on the move.  Beware of closing on a car cruising just below the posted limit which may entice you to pass and, in doing so, exceed the limit. Flash!!

 

Here is a French specimen penalty notice which lists date, time, speed, location to a few metres, type of device used and much more.   Avis de Contravention

 

As in the UK the equipment used for automatic speed detection in France is extremely accurate and it would be pointless to dispute the reading.

 

The penalty will increase if not paid by the times stated up to a maximum of €450. It will then go before a court and be confirmed as an outstanding debt. These procedures can take up to a year or more.  When the penalty is first issued a ghost licence with details of vehicle and registered keeper will be started at the Central Processing Centre in Rennes.

 

Bonnes vacances

 

Edit:  The penalties can be much higher than the €450 maximum quoted above as they are based on the limit, how much above the limit and other factors

 

Bonnes vacances

Edited by beejay

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4 minutes ago, beejay said:

Scam speeding tickets?   :rolleyes: Whatever next?  We are talking the EU not some bush state in Africa. 

Known fact and they are not generated by the official authorities.  Generally target people who have hired vehicles.

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2 hours ago, Durbanite said:

That may be correct but how would you know if you were genuinely caught speeding and that it was not a made up ticket?  An American friend of mind received a speeding ticket to his USA address via the hire car company however it turned out to be a scam.  What alerted him was the fact that although they had driven on that road the time stamp was wrong and way out.  As said I am not condoning speeding and if the ticket is justified then pay it, but getting the ticket several months later is not on.

 

 

There are a number of reasons why, in the UK, a motoring offence penalty notice may not be delivered to the registered keeper with the specified period.

 

The EU authorities will have to contact the DVLA to obtain the RK's details and then  have 360 days  to serve the penalty notice.

 

From reports in various places it seems that the French have recently obtained a bulk delivery of RK details which they are now processing.

 

In France all motoring offences are dealt with through ANTAI,  a fully automated central processing centre in Rennes which includes a motoring court.

 

Agence Nationale du Traitment Automatisé des Infractions

14 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

Known fact and they are not generated by the official authorities.  Generally target people who have hired vehicles.

 

What facts are known?  Many myths but little substance. We are discussing the EU where such practices are unknown.  Unless you can provide any verifiable  details to enlighten us.

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12 hours ago, Les Medes said:

Interesting to know if we have reciprocal arrangements with France, Italy, Germany,Spain, I only mention those countries as they are the only ones I would visit

 

Supposedly we do, but some countries will only supply the name of the registered keeper which in the case of commercial vehicles is probably the owners of the company the driver works for, as we require details of the driver at the time of the offence we never get that information so cannot pursue them for the offence.

 

The EU Cross-Border Enforcement Directive compels Member States to exchange the identity of the registered keeper or owner of a vehicle – as opposed to the identity of the driver – at the time of the offence.

This is called keeper liability.

The UK – along with countries likes Ireland, Germany, Italy, Spain and Austria – runs a driver liability system. This means that for police authorities in the UK, it may be more difficult obtaining information of the driver if they are from another member state.

 

Some foreign countries will purse the registered keeper as they determine they are responsible for the vehicle, so you could find despite someone else committing an offence whilst driving your car, you are pursued for the fines. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

 

The one catching people out in France is if the town's near caravan and motorhome sites and aires fed up with the traffic and they have put up 3.5 limit signs meaning majority of people with caravans and motorhomes are suppose to make alternative route so they don't drive through the town and police will issue fines .

Dave

 

There are TWO types of weight limit. Environmental and practical.

 

Environmental limits are there to protect the environment. For example to prevent  44 tonne lorries thundering through villages etc. (very common in France because truckers avoid the Peage motorways to reduce costs) 

Those limits are signified by a circular road sign with a pictogram of a lorry inside it. That means its only commercial vehicles such as lorries, over that weight that are prohibited. 

IF there is a pictogram of a coach, either on its own or combined with the lorry it ALSO applies to anything with more than 8 passenger seats.  (9 inc driver)

 

Many will have "Except for access and/or loading" plates which permit that activity.

 

It DOESNT apply to motorhomes or towed caravans etc  (because they are not commercial vehicles) 

 

image.png.28a640fb795b80f82075f999d2b21ffc.png

 

The PRACTICAL weight limit is in place to protect a weak bridge or similar. It JUST has the weight limit showing within the red circle and no pictogram  (it doesnt need the bit about the weak bridge, but it helps to explain why the limit is in place.)

 

The below sign applies to ALL vehicles with NO exceptions.

 

So its VITAL to look and see EXACTLY what the sign shows because a large number (especially in France) DONT apply to cars towing caravans.

 

image.png.199c1bbbb9eba695eef128d7f820bdfb.png

 

Andy

Edited by Mr Plodd

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

There are TWO types of weight limit. Environmental and practical.

 

Environmental limits are there to protect the environment. For example to prevent  44 tonne lorries thundering through villages etc. (very common in France because truckers avoid the Peage motorways to reduce costs) 

Those limits are signified by a circular road sign with a pictogram of a lorry inside it. That means its only commercial vehicles such as lorries, over that weight that are prohibited. 

IF there is a pictogram of a coach, either on its own or combined with the lorry it ALSO applies to anything with more than 8 passenger seats.  (9 inc driver)

 

Many will have "Except for access and/or loading" plates which permit that activity.

 

It DOESNT apply to motorhomes or towed caravans etc  (because they are not commercial vehicles) 

 

image.png.28a640fb795b80f82075f999d2b21ffc.png

 

The PRACTICAL weight limit is in place to protect a weak bridge or similar. It JUST has the weight limit showing within the red circle and no pictogram  (it doesnt need the bit about the weak bridge, but it helps to explain why the limit is in place.)

 

The below sign applies to ALL vehicles with NO exceptions.

 

So its VITAL to look and see EXACTLY what the sign shows because a large number (especially in France) DONT apply to cars towing caravans.

 

image.png.199c1bbbb9eba695eef128d7f820bdfb.png

 

Andy

 

 

The restriction is on 3.5 t and members on other forums reported being fined driving to sites that they usually drive to on the same route before and the caravan club warned members last year in their mag .

 

It could be more people are taking slower scenic routes to save tolls through towns and villages .

 

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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Posted (edited)

Dave

 

It matters not what the weight displayed is, the rules governing them are the same.

 

Use the following link and scroll down (about halfway down the page) where the signs are  explained.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/traffic-signs

 

Roadsigns are harmonised across the entire E.U. If anyone HAS been fined then they should raise the matter with the relevant authority because the fine is not valid UNLESS of course they have contravened a PRACTICAL weight limit (or the Police Officer didnt know the law, which is again possible) 

 

I know what I am talking about here, 30 years as a traffic cop and another 8 with the local Highways Authority dealing with traffic signs and signals. French "Flic" may well be not so conversant with the law though. 

 

Andy

Edited by Mr Plodd
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Sorry.........

 

You need to go to the “Signs giving  orders” page on the above link :wub:

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I am trying to find out if there  is a time limit for receipt of speeding tickets for offences in France.

I received three tickets last Wednesday ( two issued by the same camera) a week apart.  In all instances I think I was driving to the limit shown on my satnav as the speeds recorded were 2@ 2 and 1kph below the limit previously in force.  These were all during September and took places in the Vendee.   Should my satnav update automatically or do I need to have it updated by a dealership. Just asking as I wonder if this would be a justifiable reason for appealing the fines which total 180 euros.  

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Once notified by the DVLA they have 360 days (as posted earlier in the topic)

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11 hours ago, rimac said:

I am trying to find out if there  is a time limit for receipt of speeding tickets for offences in France.

I received three tickets last Wednesday ( two issued by the same camera) a week apart.  In all instances I think I was driving to the limit shown on my satnav as the speeds recorded were 2@ 2 and 1kph below the limit previously in force.  These were all during September and took places in the Vendee.   Should my satnav update automatically or do I need to have it updated by a dealership. Just asking as I wonder if this would be a justifiable reason for appealing the fines which total 180 euros.  

Very few Sat navs update automatically, the speed limit went down to 80 km/h on non dual carriageways in July, so I would think your sat nav was telling you wrong.

 

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11 hours ago, rimac said:

I am trying to find out if there  is a time limit for receipt of speeding tickets for offences in France.

I received three tickets last Wednesday ( two issued by the same camera) a week apart.  In all instances I think I was driving to the limit shown on my satnav as the speeds recorded were 2@ 2 and 1kph below the limit previously in force.  These were all during September and took places in the Vendee.   Should my satnav update automatically or do I need to have it updated by a dealership. Just asking as I wonder if this would be a justifiable reason for appealing the fines which total 180 euros.  

 

Speed limits in France was lowered last year and an update to your satnav could be a good idea.

I doubt that it will update itself. Check on a forum dedicated to your car and see what they say about updates. I doubt you find any court anywhere that would accept wrong limits on your satnav as an excuse.

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12 hours ago, rimac said:

Just asking as I wonder if this would be a justifiable reason for appealing the fines which total 180 euros.  

 

Well, as I understood things not all the actual road signs were changed in time, but despite this the new limit applies, so I feel an appeal on grounds your satnav was not up to date,  is flawed from the start.

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36 minutes ago, JTQ said:

 

Well, as I understood things not all the actual road signs were changed in time, but despite this the new limit applies, so I feel an appeal on grounds your satnav was not up to date,  is flawed from the start.

 

From memory of last summer I did see a few ‘80’ signs that looked new, however the ‘90’ limit was usually signified by the end of a town/ village which has the red line through the town sign (or the same through a 70 in many locations like bust junctions) - unless it says anything different when the law changed this became 80 without the need to add another sign.

 

I doubt a complaint will get very far.

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Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

 

Sorry but you have just two options. 

1. Pay up and accept you were at fault for not doing your homework re speed limits 

2. Not paying up and risking all sorts of grief if you ever return to France.

 

Your choice.

 

Andy

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15 hours ago, rimac said:

 In all instances I think I was driving to the limit shown on my satnav

 

That would seem to be an odd way of doing things. I would advise looking out of the window at posted signs etc. This will also tell you if its raining, snowing or if the car in front has stopped.

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On 14/03/2019 at 19:20, jetA1 said:

Here is a slightly different method of traffic enforcement that I've just come across today.

 

I'm in Jeddah at the moment working, although I'm based in a hotel (delivering training) my host wanted to take me to see a new facility where the guys I'm training will be working, this involved a 30 minutes drive across the city. 

 

I noticed what I thought were traffic cameras, although they were not the hi-viz devices we see in the UK, they were drab grey boxes that blended in with the background, but my host confirmed that they were indeed cameras, some for speeding and others for red lights.

 

If you drive a car in the city your car and driver details are inked and you have to have a contact telephone number on record. Apparently, 99.9% of people have a mobile registered against their licence and car registrations. If you activate a traffic camera then you receive a text notification of the impending fine within 30 minutes; you then have just days to pay it, online payments are gratefully received by the authorities to make it easy.

 

Traffic law enforcement here is a little different to back home. Unlike at home, there are plenty of Police to be seen on the roads, they're armed (obviously) and apparently, most of them missed out on Swiss finishing school so they are not known for their polite small Talk when dealing with traffic stops.  I wonder if there is something to be said for this rather more speedy and direct approach.  Most people do pay fines promptly because if they don't they'll either find themselves on the wrong side of a 'random' traffic stop or the next time they try to take a flight they'll be pulled in when they present their licence as i/d at the airport. 

My brother worked in Dubai, Abu Dabi & a few other places around there for a good few years. His wife worked for the government there. Can't remember which place exactly this was, but one evening they were at a do & he got talking to the minister for transport. The conversation included a bit about him having just bought a Porsche Cayenne Turbo & the fact that he couldn't really drive it to its full potential. Easy one replies the minister & tells him that if he goes to a certain road on Friday & gives him a call, he'll arrange that all the speed cameras are switched off for the rest of that day. So the following Friday he calls his new bestie up & says he's going to that road  - it was out of town - & the minister replies that he's already had the speed cameras turned off 'for maintenance'. Its not what you know........................ 

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Ooh that’s a bit too risky for me. What if the cameras had NOT been switched off????

 

Andy

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7 hours ago, JTQ said:

 

Well, as I understood things not all the actual road signs were changed in time, but despite this the new limit applies, so I feel an appeal on grounds your satnav was not up to date,  is flawed from the start.

 

 

The limit on single carriageway roads in France is by default the 'national speed limit'and requires no signs.

On 15/03/2019 at 13:35, Mr Plodd said:

Dave

 

It matters not what the weight displayed is, the rules governing them are the same.

 

Use the following link and scroll down (about halfway down the page) where the signs are  explained.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/traffic-signs

 

Roadsigns are harmonised across the entire E.U. If anyone HAS been fined then they should raise the matter with the relevant authority because the fine is not valid UNLESS of course they have contravened a PRACTICAL weight limit (or the Police Officer didnt know the law, which is again possible) 

 

I know what I am talking about here, 30 years as a traffic cop and another 8 with the local Highways Authority dealing with traffic signs and signals. French "Flic" may well be not so conversant with the law though. 

 

Andy

 

The UK now has environmental signs installed by local authorities which apply to all vehicles.  The Rotherhithe tunnel now has a 2 t limit with is which is catching many light van drivers  and will also apply to an outfit..

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21 hours ago, rimac said:

I am trying to find out if there  is a time limit for receipt of speeding tickets for offences in France.

I received three tickets last Wednesday ( two issued by the same camera) a week apart.  In all instances I think I was driving to the limit shown on my satnav as the speeds recorded were 2@ 2 and 1kph below the limit previously in force.  These were all during September and took places in the Vendee.   Should my satnav update automatically or do I need to have it updated by a dealership. Just asking as I wonder if this would be a justifiable reason for appealing the fines which total 180 euros.  

 

The speed quoted (vitesse retenue) on the Avis de Contravention will be 5kph less than the recorded speed up to 100kph and 10% of recorded speed above 100kph. If you thought you were driving to the previous limit but the vitesse retinue was 88 and 89kph  you were actually recorded doing 93 and 94kph.

 

Edit:  both my Garmin sat navs were updated to the new limits on the date they were introduced.  Not bad for a US company.

Edited by beejay

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On 22/03/2019 at 08:59, Mike James said:

 

That would seem to be an odd way of doing things. I would advise looking out of the window at posted signs etc. This will also tell you if its raining, snowing or if the car in front has stopped.

There is always one eejit who has to try & be a comedian!!! Perhaps if you engaged your brain before starting to type would be a good idea for future posts. Meantime thanks to all the other respondents who provided considered opinions, as some confirmed my thoughts that not all signs had been changed. 

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