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FrankBullet

Not doing ourselves any favours - Mirrors

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12 minutes ago, Hairyspinner said:

I've got a Vauxhall Movano 3500kg, it's probably about the same width as a Transit, I don't fit extension mirrors as I can see, without problem, down the side of my Unicorn Valancia caravan, maybe your pal with the Transit is correct?

 

Nope!

 

It may well be the case that your vehicle is fitted with “longer reach” mirror arms such as those fitted to many motorhomes (for the reason the originals are too narrow)

 

I followed him a few weeks ago, when sat behind at a correct “following position” I could not see either of his mirrors. So he clearly would be unable to see me, and I would probably be a bit further back than many drivers and certainly a VERY long way further back than the average French driver!!

 

Andy

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Posted (edited)

We had a video of a police operation on here a few years ago and a van towing a caravan might of been a Vauxhall got a fine for not having the required correct rear view . The larger 4x4 vehicles are about as wide as a transit and they require mirrors .

 

You can be fined for the offence per side .

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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23 hours ago, Legal Eagle said:

Here is a diagramatic explanation of the legal requirement.

 

image.thumb.png.ef395edeabcfbe292919fcf05130f81d.png

 

Whilst not arguing about the pros and cons of extension mirrors.

I take it that the diagram is from a towing mirror manufacturer???

And it is only a diagrammatic representation.

 

But. Why does the field of vision start from the external edge of the extension mirror, but from the internal edge of the car mirror on the other side??

 

Looks pretty, but it's an exaggeration.

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56 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

I followed him a few weeks ago, when sat behind at a correct “following position”

 

What is a "correct following position"?

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I love the way the nit-pickers come out when this subject gets resurrected every now and again trying to justify why they are a special case and don't really need mirrors.:(

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5 minutes ago, matelodave said:

I love the way the nit-pickers come out when this subject gets resurrected every now and again trying to justify why they are a special case and don't really need mirrors.:(

 

Yep, and some people can pick a hole in a new jumper :(

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Laws of physics a car mirror at the tips is not going to see down the side of a 7 ft 6 in caravan .

 

 

 

Dave

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3 minutes ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

Yep, and some people can pick a hole in a new jumper :(

????????????????????????:unsure:

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1 minute ago, matelodave said:

????????????????????????:unsure:

 

I was agreeing with you :) see the post above yours!

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I really can't understand all the arguments just fit the mirrors.

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Well my nearside Millenco mirror is some where on the M6 as it some how worked loose and dropped off yesterday. Checked it twice before setting off.

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1 hour ago, CommanderDave said:

We had a video of a police operation on here a few years ago and a van towing a caravan might of been a Vauxhall got a fine for not having the required correct rear view . The larger 4x4 vehicles are about as wide as a transit and they require mirrors .

 

You can be fined for the offence per side .

 

Dave

It would be two offences and you can collect 6 points which can result in a hefty increase in your insurance premium!

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Several years ago I bought some Milenco Grand Aero  from a CT member that lived in St Helens at the time.

I was towing a 2001 Elddis Crusader SuperSirocco behind my 2005 Volvo V70 D5 Geartronic and the standard arms did not give  a totally legal rearward view - the very rearward corners.silver trim was not clearly visible.

As a result I purchased some appropriate aluminium tubing from B&Q and the mirrors then performed perfectly well.

I never had an issue with them regarding stability and security and indeed do still have them in a purpose made box that allowed me to just remove them and fix them on with minimum adjustment and drive away.

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3 hours ago, AlwynMike said:

 Why does the field of vision start from the external edge of the extension mirror, but from the internal edge of the car mirror on the other side??

Looks pretty, but it's an exaggeration.

Here's an alternative way of presenting the same information where the angle of view is the same for both the standard and extended mirror, only the mirror arm length is different.

Towing_Mirror_Setup - small.jpg

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14 hours ago, Gordon said:

.Tip - adjust your standard mirror down slightly to look at the caravan wheel when taking a tight turn.

 

Yes, I do this - it helps a great deal not only with the wheels but making sure I don’t slip into looking at my regular mirrors - and every time when I do it Mrs FB looks at them and says ‘how can you see anything with them?’!

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I tend to use both the original and extended mirrors equally, the extended mirror gives a very tight view down the side of the van, and usually the vehicle behind (if not too close) is visible one side or the other. the original gives a better view of traffic in the next lane.

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5 hours ago, AlwynMike said:

 

Whilst not arguing about the pros and cons of extension mirrors.

I take it that the diagram is from a towing mirror manufacturer???

And it is only a diagrammatic representation.

 

But. Why does the field of vision start from the external edge of the extension mirror, but from the internal edge of the car mirror on the other side??

 

Looks pretty, but it's an exaggeration.

The legal requirements are the measurements given. The yellow/red areas marked on the nearside represent the view from the standard door mirror with resulting illegal blind spot. The blue area is marked from the extended mirrors.

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The TV program on this showed the policeman walk to rear corner of the caravan and look for the drivers face in the mirror. 

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2 minutes ago, Paul_B said:

The TV program on this showed the policeman walk to rear corner of the caravan and look for the drivers face in the mirror. 

Yes, that works, but only subject to lighting conditions and reflections off the window glass.

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2 minutes ago, Paul_B said:

The TV program on this showed the policeman walk to rear corner of the caravan and look for the drivers face in the mirror. 

 

Hi Paul. That is what is written on the rear of most trucks and HGV's.

If you cannot see me in the mirror - then I cannot see you. I believe that it was/is expressly aimed at cyclists that likely believe that the drivers have crystal balls on their dashboards.

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17 hours ago, Oscarmax said:

I really can't understand all the arguments just fit the mirrors.

 

I'm certainly not arguing against mirrors, I'm just making two points:

 

-they don't enable you to see the area behind your van (between the rear corners)

-a car following won't necessary be able to see whether mirrors are fitted until they edge out of their following position slightly

 

13 hours ago, Stevan said:

I tend to use both the original and extended mirrors equally, the extended mirror gives a very tight view down the side of the van, and usually the vehicle behind (if not too close) is visible one side or the other. the original gives a better view of traffic in the next lane.

 

Me too.

 

It is possible to use the original mirror for the purpose you describe and for checking position of the van wheel on tight turns (as others have mentioned) without angling it excessively. Partly because the driver can move their own position during low speed manouvering to allow this. 

14 hours ago, Gordon said:

Here's an alternative way of presenting the same information

 

This one is better. It corrects the error that AlwynMike identified in the version that people are suggesting is the legal position.

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I wish Swift had kept their design going where we could see through the caravan using the cars windscreen mirror, it was  one of the ideas that was in the same league as sliced bread.

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12 minutes ago, Paul_B said:

I wish Swift had kept their design going where we could see through the caravan using the cars windscreen mirror, it was  one of the ideas that was in the same league as sliced bread.

That design was useful but very restricting on caravan layout, combined with which it often left a huge blindspot directly beneath the rear window in which entire sportscars could hide. Still needed the extended side mirrors to give a wide enough view.

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3 minutes ago, Stevan said:

That design was useful but very restricting on caravan layout, combined with which it often left a huge blindspot directly beneath the rear window in which entire sportscars could hide. Still needed the extended side mirrors to give a wide enough view.

 

I could see through ok with my MK2 Granada with a swift alouette, but probably would have missed someone crouched down behind, especially if they were doing it while I was doing 60mph on a motorway. 

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