Biggest loss in Indian history! JLR

[Durbanite]

Wondering when the "For Sale" sign will be erected.  See https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/08/investing/tata-motors-jaguar-land-rover/index.html

[Guest]

Why would they sell it? they are in the process of building the next generation of electric hybrid cars plus they just invested millions of £ with the help of a grant from the Slovakian government to build a new factory in Europe which will start production soon.

[CommanderDave]

Last time LR had problems the British government had to pump £200 m into it to get rid of it .  Now the whole of the car industry is in a state of collapse and today they spoke about more tightening to get old cars off the road .

 

 

I think we will see a push with a trade in offer again to get cars off the road and new car sales moving at rock bottom pricing ?

 

Dave

Edited February 14, 2019 by CommanderDave

[Guest]

During my 18 years working for Ford, I have seen many up and down. Vehicle manufacturing is a very volatile industry around the world.

[Ern]

The international auto industry is in a real mess. China's vehicle market bubble has burst, and JLR has been too reliant on it. The politicians of Europe have well and truly  screwed things up with their misguided taxation policy, and confusion. 

[Durbanite]

15 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

I think we will see a push with a trade in offer again to get cars off the road and new car sales moving at rock bottom pricing ?

Dave

Many people including us are quite happy to poodle around in 20 year old car that is reliable and cost us nothing to maintain.  Our car is a 1996 Toyota Corolla with 112 miles on the clock and has a long service history.  

A new or newer car is probably not affordable to many young families taking into account the high interest rates charged for finance.  I don't think the last offering got many old cars off the roads.

This environmental drive by the EU to force diesels off the roads is having a huge impact and will create a bigger problem of unemployment.  IMHO it should have been phased in gradually over a number of years and not within a space of less than 10 years especially when there is no viable alternative to a diesel vehicle.  However are diesels really any worse than petrol vehicles?

Edited February 15, 2019 by Durbanite

[AndyPoole]

22 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

 Toyota Corolla with 112 miles on the clock 

 

Wow you have not gone a long way in that 

[Durbanite]

11 minutes ago, AndyPoole said:

 

Wow you have not gone a long way in that 

Oops should have read 112,000 miles.  LOL!  However last year or the year before a rare Ford Escort RS Cosworth was offered on eBay for over £10k and it has less than 20 miles on the clock.  I think it was from the eighties and a Mk1?

[scotsstag]

10K sounds awful cheap!

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Durbanite said:

However are diesels really any worse than petrol vehicles?

 

It depends who you listen to!  I did read a while ago (but cannot for the life of me find it now) that Loughborough University had developed a filter that really cleaned up diesel vehicle emissions, but I suppose that won't "fit" with the Witch-hunt against diesels.

 

I'm all for cleaning up urban pollution but there are so many differing opinions and false facts out there that it's difficult to make an informed decision.  My current car is diesel and the next one will be. 

[CommanderDave]

5 hours ago, Durbanite said:

Many people including us are quite happy to poodle around in 20 year old car that is reliable and cost us nothing to maintain.  Our car is a 1996 Toyota Corolla with 112 miles on the clock and has a long service history.  

A new or newer car is probably not affordable to many young families taking into account the high interest rates charged for finance.  I don't think the last offering got many old cars off the roads.

This environmental drive by the EU to force diesels off the roads is having a huge impact and will create a bigger problem of unemployment.  IMHO it should have been phased in gradually over a number of years and not within a space of less than 10 years especially when there is no viable alternative to a diesel vehicle.  However are diesels really any worse than petrol vehicles?

 

 

The government will want to start the car sales moving so it is in their favour to push for another ten year trade in and get older vehicles off the road to help emissions . Thousands of vehicles or scrap metal sitting in fields is going to damage our economy if JLR was to fail it would put 50000 employees out of work but possibly half a million in supporting industries .

 

Dave

Edited February 15, 2019 by CommanderDave

[Ern]

5 hours ago, Durbanite said:

This environmental drive by the EU to force diesels off the roads.....................….within a space of less than 10 years..

What have they done then?  What has any government done to drive diesels off the road? Have I been sleeping and missed a major government announcement? 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Ern said:

What have they done then?  What has any government done to drive diesels off the road? Have I been sleeping and missed a major government announcement? 

 

Clearly!

 

"Con"vinced people to go into diesels to reduce CO2 to save the ozone layer, then years later demonised diesels  in built up areas because of NOX

 

BIK tax on company cars gone through the roof with much higher taxation on diesel models.

 

New diesel cars now face higher first-year taxes

 

https://motorway.co.uk/guides/diesel-car-toxin-tax

 

https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/diesel-cars/460/diesel-tax-proposed-charges-and-surcharges-for-uk-drivers

 

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/930131/car-tax-check-2018-DVLA-increase-diesel-April-most-expensive

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/98747/diesel-ban-the-future-of-diesel-cars-in-the-uk-and-beyond

[logiclee]

1 hour ago, Ern said:

What have they done then?  What has any government done to drive diesels off the road? Have I been sleeping and missed a major government announcement? 

 

Throughout Europe there has been increased taxation, increased Ultra Low Emission Zones and in some cities proposed complete bans.

 

All go towards the bad press, the turn of public opinion and the collapse of diesel sales

 

30% drop in diesel sales in 2018 alone. Used diesel car demand continues to drop with residuals tumbling especially in the small to medium sectors.

Edited February 15, 2019 by logiclee

[Ern]

3 hours ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

1. Convinced people to go into diesels to reduce CO2 to save the ozone layer, then years later demonised diesels  in built up areas because of NOX

 

2. BIK tax on company cars gone through the roof with much higher taxation on diesel models.

 

3. New diesel cars now face higher first-year taxes

 

 

1. As I remember it, the switch to diesels was driven mainly by the economy of extra mileage whilst fuel prices were rising at a previously unheard of rate. At the same time turbo's were commonly available on diesel cars and diesel car acceleration improved more on par with petrol cars. Surely this is what convinced drivers to switch.

2. This only affects company car drivers. Aren't the majority privately owned?

3. This only affects new car buyers. I think sales of used cars exceeds new cars doesn't it

 

[FrankBullet]

9 hours ago, Durbanite said:

However last year or the year before a rare Ford Escort RS Cosworth was offered on eBay for over £10k and it has less than 20 miles on the clock.  I think it was from the eighties and a Mk1?

 

The mk1 is older than that! From the eighties you have the mk3 and 4 RS turbo and mk3 RS1600i - both suffer from ‘RS tax’ and £10k wouldn’t get you a great one!

4 hours ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

Clearly!

 

"Con"vinced people to go into diesels to reduce CO2 to save the ozone layer, then years later demonised diesels  in built up areas because of NOX

 

BIK tax on company cars gone through the roof with much higher taxation on diesel models.

 

New diesel cars now face higher first-year taxes

 

https://motorway.co.uk/guides/diesel-car-toxin-tax

 

https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/diesel-cars/460/diesel-tax-proposed-charges-and-surcharges-for-uk-drivers

 

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/930131/car-tax-check-2018-DVLA-increase-diesel-April-most-expensive

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/98747/diesel-ban-the-future-of-diesel-cars-in-the-uk-and-beyond

 

Changes to tax don’t demonise diesel.  

 

Most diesels have had a surcharge against them for company car users to take account of their low CO2, and he increase from 2018 affected all cars, diesel and petrol.

 

The tax system no more demonises diesel than petrol

[shipbroker]

A Cosworth and a Mexico were destroyed in a garage fire here last month,estimate of over £200,000 for the pair...

 

geoff 

[CommanderDave]

The Mexico fetch a good price as said they can reach £100000 if you can get a good one ?

 

A mate had his tuned with a BDA lump stage 3 and a pair of 45s.

 

Those were the days .

 

Dave

Edited February 15, 2019 by CommanderDave

[ancell]

33 minutes ago, shipbroker said:

A Cosworth and a Mexico were destroyed in a garage fire here last month,estimate of over £200,000 for the pair...

 

geoff 

 

Relative had a Mk1 Ford Mexico fitted with twin twin choke Weber’s.

We used them for our track cars but they were a nightmare on the road!

The float springs were a weakness in the design float/s could drop carb flood woops car gone in a heartbeat.

Not forgetting the temptation to remove the air cleaners to hear the mighty induction roar-until a foreign object is sucked into the engine.

[logiclee]

2 hours ago, Ern said:

1. As I remember it, the switch to diesels was driven mainly by the economy of extra mileage whilst fuel prices were rising at a previously unheard of rate. At the same time turbo's were commonly available on diesel cars and diesel car acceleration improved more on par with petrol cars. Surely this is what convinced drivers to switch.

2. This only affects company car drivers. Aren't the majority privately owned?

3. This only affects new car buyers. I think sales of used cars exceeds new cars doesn't it

 

 

Does it really matter.

 

The tale of ULEZ, city bans across Europe , all the health scares in the Press, the increasing cost of diesel tech and diesel being 10p a litre more than petrol has had the effect the Government wanted.

 

Diesel sales down 30% and continue to fall rapidly.  It's expected that March 2017 to March 2019 figures will see over a 50% decline in diesel sales. JLR can't react quickly enough.

Edited February 15, 2019 by logiclee

[Guest]

2 hours ago, FrankBullet said:

Changes to tax don’t demonise diesel.  

 

Most diesels have had a surcharge against them for company car users to take account of their low CO2, and the increase from 2018 affected all cars, diesel and petrol.

 

The tax system no more demonises diesel than petrol

 

Really, explain then how when I got my Merc the BIK was 21% of list price, and now despite the car being 3 years old the BIK is 31% of the original list price, petrol cars are much lower.

[CommanderDave]

1 hour ago, logiclee said:

 

Does it really matter.

 

The tale of ULEZ, city bans across Europe , all the health scares in the Press, the increasing cost of diesel tech and diesel being 10p a litre more than petrol has had the effect the Government wanted.

 

Diesel sales down 30% and continue to fall rapidly.  It's expected that March 2017 to March 2019 figures will see over a 50% decline in diesel sales. JLR can't react quickly enough.

 

 

London clean air zone came in ten years ago in 2008 I think we all knew what was happening to the diesel and it's days were numbered ?

We also read a number of reports that the diesel was not going to last due to Euro emission standards .

 

Car manufacturers should of started to change course ?

 

Dave

Edited February 15, 2019 by CommanderDave

[Guest]

3 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

 

 

London clean air zone came in ten years ago in 2008 I think we all knew what was happening to the diesel and it's days were numbered ?

We also read a number of reports that the diesel was not going to last due to Euro emission standards .

 

Car manufacturers should of started to change course ?

 

Dave

I am sure they have my Transit diesel is Euro 6, the problem is Euro emission standards only apply to vehicle sold in Europe other countries in the world have their own emission standard that is not strict as Europe.

 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

3 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

 

 

London clean air zone came in ten years ago in 2008 I think we all knew what was happening to the diesel and it's days were numbered ?

 

Just another reason to stay away from London. Best view of London?........... In the rear view mirror heading home.

[FrankBullet]

7 hours ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

Really, explain then how when I got my Merc the BIK was 21% of list price, and now despite the car being 3 years old the BIK is 31% of the original list price, petrol cars are much lower.

 

And how have petrol models changed comparably?

 

A quick check of BIK rates for comparable petrol v diesel shows the diesel to be 2-3% higher BIK than a similar petrol, as many diesels had a 3% surcharge for years that’s not changed

 

Company cars are incurring greater tax irrespective of whether they are petrol or diesel - that’s entirely different and nothing to do with the specific demonisation of diesel which was the point I’m responding to.

 

Two examples of Mercedes where the petrol is more not less, but mostly it’s 2-3% more for the diesel - as it’s been for years

 

 

Edited February 16, 2019 by FrankBullet