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Tyres for towing with rear wheel drive


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I have an automatic rear wheel drive Jaguar XF which I use for towing. 18" wheels with 245 45R 18 100Y Goodyear tyres. Awful in the snow despite all the gizmos you can apply to the various drive modes! So much so that I avoid using the car in the snow because in general being retired, I don't need to. However similar issues on camsites with grass/mud and even in these cases when attempting minimal slopes.  I have heard on this forum with a post about their use on an SUV and it is confirmed by a local tyre supplier that Michelin Crossclimate are very good. I guess the key factor for improved grip on snow or mud is the tread pattern. The goodyear are designed with the standard deep grooves around the circumference of the tyre and more minimal lateral grooving. Suspect given the high speed rating that this is also to reduce tyre noise at speed?

Does anyone have any alternatives to the Crossclimate tyres for me to consider before having to take a second mortgage out before changing the tyres?!!!

Jaguar XF Portfolio 1. 9 Diesel Bailey Ranger 500/5 (2006/7 Model)

To err is human, to really foul things up requires a computer!

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Nokian Weatherproof and Vredestrain Quatrac are good alternatives to Michelin Cross Climate

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2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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I have a rear wheel drive auto as well, Mercedes E class.  My car has staggered wheels, 265/35 18 on the back and 245/40 18 on the front, all Michelin summer tyres.  As you say, not a lot of use in snow, which we do get a bit of here in Scotland.  I have a set of wheels with winter tyre that I usually put on from end of October until end of March or so.  They are 17 inch wheels with all 4 tyres the same size, 225/50 17 Goodyear Ultra.  They make an amazing difference when the weather is bad.  I live up a fairly steep hill with an even steeper drive up to the house, and the car makes it with no problem.  We had snow the other day and I had no trouble getting up the drive, I'm sure I would have been stuck without the winter tyres.

 

I can't say I've had any problems towing in summer, but then I haven't too often driven on grass.

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The Crossclimate and Vredestrian were mentioned to me by my tyre dealer but at the time we weren't discussing performance on a campsite field! The emphasis was on a possible need for better tyres for the snow for journeys I was making to North Wales. This need, thankfully, is no longer a factor.  I have today revisited  my local tyre dealer (who has been dependable and supplying my tyres at competetive rates for som time) and he had examples of Vredestrain and Goodyear.   We discussed the tread patterns and looked at the V-shape that tractors have and decided that the Michelin was therefore probably the best choice to get off a muddy field. Nokian is an interesting addition (which we haven't discussed) because of a similar v-shape pattern. Finnish make apparently but the quote from Black Tyres  doesn't  really indicate  meeting my needs? "Back in 2015, the Weatherproof romped all the snow tests, struggled in the dry and did well enough in the wet to be a top performer on its debut. The opposition has improved since then, and this time Nokian took one win in the snow and was at or close to the bottom in the other tests.

It’s not what we expect from the winter specialist. But there seems to have been a shift of focus for the Finnish producer as, yet again, it proved the most frugal – a result it has taken for the past few winter and all-season tests.

Despite this, its wet performance has remained good, particularly in the deep water aquaplaning tests. It was a little off the pace on the wet circuit, lacking steering bite beyond the initial turn-in, and also struggling to match some rivals’ traction."

 

It seems perhaps the 2nd mortgage may be needed or possible savings with Nokian?!! However I will return to the local dealer to review the Nokian.

Thanks for the replies so far,

Steve

Jaguar XF Portfolio 1. 9 Diesel Bailey Ranger 500/5 (2006/7 Model)

To err is human, to really foul things up requires a computer!

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Nokian Weatherproof on my Touareg, and very pleased.

 

I had to source them from mainland Europe and had them fitted by my local ATS.

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My Santa Fe has Cross Climates all round. Last week I had to attend a hospital appointment in Manchester some 45 miles away. The journey took me over 4 hours because I was stuck behind unprepared drivers.

when I eventually got to the hospital the only spaces available were on the top floor of their car park, which the attendant had coned off because of the 3-4 “ of snow on the slope - move the cones please - I drove straight up no wheel spin and steered round the bend easily. When I walked away others were trying but not succeeding,

well worth the extra money - the’re good in mud too.

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4 hours ago, PeteG said:

I have a rear wheel drive auto as well, Mercedes E class.  My car has staggered wheels, 265/35 18 on the back and 245/40 18 on the front, all Michelin summer tyres.  As you say, not a lot of use in snow, which we do get a bit of here in Scotland.  I have a set of wheels with winter tyre that I usually put on from end of October until end of March or so.  They are 17 inch wheels with all 4 tyres the same size, 225/50 17 Goodyear Ultra.  They make an amazing difference when the weather is bad.  I live up a fairly steep hill with an even steeper drive up to the house, and the car makes it with no problem.  We had snow the other day and I had no trouble getting up the drive, I'm sure I would have been stuck without the winter tyres.

 

I can't say I've had any problems towing in summer, but then I haven't too often driven on grass.

Given I'm less concerned about the need to drive in snow and my car is rear wheel drive no tyres will really give much of an advantage on muddy fields?  Maybe available tread depth is more of a solution? Reluctant to make compromise on performance on the road because the Jaguar has limpet like cornering on the Goodyear Tyres it came with. .....

1 hour ago, LittleGreyCat said:

Nokian Weatherproof on my Touareg, and very pleased.

 

I had to source them from mainland Europe and had them fitted by my local ATS.

I've spotted this review of the main tyre brands mentioned so far

https://www. autoexpress. co. uk/accessories-tyres/92868/michelin-cross-climate

Also seen a problem with availability of some brands especially with 18" rims. Guess it is the worst time of the year for cross climate type tyres but getting close to needing to replace them.

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To err is human, to really foul things up requires a computer!

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46 minutes ago, Millstone said:

My Santa Fe has Cross Climates all round. Last week I had to attend a hospital appointment in Manchester some 45 miles away. The journey took me over 4 hours because I was stuck behind unprepared drivers.

when I eventually got to the hospital the only spaces available were on the top floor of their car park, which the attendant had coned off because of the 3-4 “ of snow on the slope - move the cones please - I drove straight up no wheel spin and steered round the bend easily. When I walked away others were trying but not succeeding,

well worth the extra money - the’re good in mud too.

Interested in the point about being good in mud too, but is this 4WD ruling over 2WD and RWD at that! In two years of  driving I've only been close to having issue on fields once. Other experience was not being able to get car out of the garage with 4" snow and a 6" rise in the drive outside the garage door, admittedly with a 45 degree bend before getting to a flat section. Second one was gingerly braking mostly by engine and electronic gizmos on the Jaguar on an incline towards a roundabout in the snow that already had a collision in the snow where the car just started to slide!

I know, should have bought a Land Rover, or at least FWD but for most of the year the Jaguar is a gem and tows like a dream and has had a number of Towcar awards in its class. Couldn't afford the all wheel drive Jag either!

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What am I missing here? In this day & age are there many sites which don't have tarmac roads round their layout ??

Last time I was in a grass field site with a hill, my FWD car started to slip on the way out. I reversed back a little then started to zig zag across the field until I got on to a more level part when I regained traction.   Make sure you have plenty weight on drive axle---at least until you get out.

Perhaps the automatic transmission doesn't help either.

Edited by blondchaser
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I use accentura  all seasons on  my Shogun. Never had an issue with grip in any weathers & they certainly wont break the bank. Worked in the snow we had earlier this week or the deeper snow we had last March - about 6" of the stuff. Where I live isnt flat either. I live on a hil& there are very few flat roads round here as we are in the medway valley.  

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1 hour ago, blondchaser said:

What am I missing here? In this day & age are there many sites which don't have tarmac roads round their layout ??

Last time I was in a grass field site with a hill, my FWD car started to slip on the way out. I reversed back a little then started to zig zag across the field until I got on to a more level part when I regained traction.   Make sure you have plenty weight on drive axle---at least until you get out.

Perhaps the automatic transmission doesn't help either.

 

Your observation of big sites having tarmac roads misses all the smaller sites that don't!

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2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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2 hours ago, blondchaser said:

What am I missing here? In this day & age are there many sites which don't have tarmac roads round their layout ??

Last time I was in a grass field site with a hill, my FWD car started to slip on the way out. I reversed back a little then started to zig zag across the field until I got on to a more level part when I regained traction.   Make sure you have plenty weight on drive axle---at least until you get out.

Perhaps the automatic transmission doesn't help either.

We are part of Land Rover Caravan and Camping Club which holds rallies and generally we find rally fields are not so well endowed with tarmac.  On the plus side many of the rally members have Land Rovers so a tow is always on the agenda!!

The automatic issue maybe  a red herring as we have a mode that can use paddles on the steering wheel and all kinds of traction controls for various situations.

Edited by SNJJNS
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Jaguar XF Portfolio 1. 9 Diesel Bailey Ranger 500/5 (2006/7 Model)

To err is human, to really foul things up requires a computer!

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Just a thought about the advantage that Cross Climates (and similar) bring to the table. As I understand it all season type tyres bring advantages partly due to tread design but also because there are changes to the rubber compound (greater silicone content) meaning that they are more pliable at lower temperatures (seem to recall that 7c is the critical temperature). When considering their performance on a slippery, but not cold, surface, such as a damp/muddy rally field then how much of the tyres enhanced performance will help grip when the temp isn't below 7c.  

 

I don't use all season tyres myself but have witnessed them in action on a friends car so have no doubt about the advantage they bring as far as dealing with regard to poor surfaces at low temperatures. I just wonder if the design element that deals with low temperatures can also deliver a benefit on low grip surfaces in milder conditions? I can see that the mechanical aspect of design, the different sipes, will provide an advantage regardless of temperature but would the same be true for the winter compound rubber? As I say just thinking out loud.  

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6 hours ago, jetA1 said:

Just a thought about the advantage that Cross Climates (and similar) bring to the table. As I understand it all season type tyres bring advantages partly due to tread design but also because there are changes to the rubber compound (greater silicone content) meaning that they are more pliable at lower temperatures (seem to recall that 7c is the critical temperature). When considering their performance on a slippery, but not cold, surface, such as a damp/muddy rally field then how much of the tyres enhanced performance will help grip when the temp isn't below 7c.  

 

I don't use all season tyres myself but have witnessed them in action on a friends car so have no doubt about the advantage they bring as far as dealing with regard to poor surfaces at low temperatures. I just wonder if the design element that deals with low temperatures can also deliver a benefit on low grip surfaces in milder conditions? I can see that the mechanical aspect of design, the different sipes, will provide an advantage regardless of temperature but would the same be true for the winter compound rubber? As I say just thinking out loud.  

 

It is difficult to generalise - winter tyres have a compound optimised for temperatures under 7C - that doesn't mean they don't work well above 7C but they're not optimised for longevity above 7C, unlike most summer tyres.

 

Most all-season and many winter tyres are optimised for wet conditions, with many "sipes" to clear the water - some winter tyres are better in snow and may not be quite as good in wet conditions.

 

Many tyres intended for SUVs by virtue of their size or load rating have tread patterns which recognise a limited amount of off-road use - advantageous on wet, grassy/muddy fields with a caravan - may be available for non-SUVs if the size and ratings match.

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We swapped from AWD SUV to rear wheel drive auto (a BMW 5 series).

 

I've been impressed at how good it's been in the snow and very pleased with performance on grass / mud with the van on the back - this with standard Pirelli or Hankooks on the back 

 

Maybe I was just expecting poorer performance or might it be that my car has much narrower tyres or a heavier rear? Either way, I find the auto box invaluable in preventing wheel spin.

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23 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

It is difficult to generalise - winter tyres have a compound optimised for temperatures under 7C - that doesn't mean they don't work well above 7C but they're not optimised for longevity above 7C, unlike most summer tyres.

 

Most all-season and many winter tyres are optimised for wet conditions, with many "sipes" to clear the water - some winter tyres are better in snow and may not be quite as good in wet conditions.

 

Many tyres intended for SUVs by virtue of their size or load rating have tread patterns which recognise a limited amount of off-road use - advantageous on wet, grassy/muddy fields with a caravan - may be available for non-SUVs if the size and ratings match.

Winter tyres are 'ok' all year round but from the tests I've seen (You Tube) and read (ADAC) you lose a significant amount of braking efficiency when the mercury rises and it would take a braver (or dafter) man than me to drive at high speed on the Autobahn in the middle of summer with winter tyres fitted.

My Shogun had All Weather's on it but this year I've put some Goodyear winter tyres on and in the recent snow we've had here they were noticeably better. With the Continental summer tyres I've bought my car uses about 1 litre less diesel per 100 km (Autobahn @ 130 km/h) than it did with the All Weather Dunlops it came with.

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When we bought our Touareg in July it was fitted with Vredstein Quatrac 5 tyre.  To be honest I had never heard of them.  But they seem to be excellent.  Haven’t had any problems on wet grass.  When I come to change tyres they will certainly be very near the top of my list.  They have the 3 peak symbol so they count as a winter tyre.  

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Mrs Borussia bought a new car yesterday, it's coming with a set of Toyo Snowprox Winters and a set of Continental Summers, I know we have to fit winters here (and many on here think they're a waste of money, even though they've never had any) but I think its a good idea and I'm much happier for my wife to be driving about with the correct type of tyre for the prevailing road conditions.

4 minutes ago, fred said:

When we bought our Touareg in July it was fitted with Vredstein Quatrac 5 tyre.  To be honest I had never heard of them.  But they seem to be excellent.  Haven’t had any problems on wet grass.  When I come to change tyres they will certainly be very near the top of my list.  They have the 3 peak symbol so they count as a winter tyre.  

They're quite a well known brand here, Dutch company I believe

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10 hours ago, Black Grouse said:

 

Your observation of big sites having tarmac roads misses all the smaller sites that don't!

And misses almost all rally fields.

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for snow. .. cold weather fit winter tyres. Better then standard tyres when temperature is below  7 degrees.

The tyre compound is different.

 

often wonder when you see on the news people getting stuck how many have winter tyres fitted.

saw something on YouTube where a 2 wheel drive on winter tyres out did a 4 wheel drive on summer tyres up a slope

 

macafee2

Edited by macafee2
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The new breed of allseason tyres are excellent and I now have them fitted to two of our cars.

 

But they are still a slight compromise and depending what you buy depends where that compromise sits.

 

You have to decide what your priorities are and that will mainly depend on where you live and what conditions you drive in.

 

 

Yeti 2.0TDi DSG 4X4 L&K, Octavia TSi Manual, Citigo ASG, Swift Challenger.

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I have a set of Pirelli Scorpion Verde All Season on my car which have performed well in all conditions, including the recent snow.   They have now done 19,000 miles with plenty of tread left.  May not sound that many miles to some but on my last car, BMW X3, if I got 15,000 I thought I had done well, it used to eat tyres.  These tyres have been on the car from new and I was told they were chosen by Land Rover to be a good compromise for all types of use (but obviously not real mud plugging).

 

May not be what you are seeking but they could be another alternative to consider.

 

Michael

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13 hours ago, macafee2 said:

for snow. .. cold weather fit winter tyres. Better then standard tyres when temperature is below  7 degrees.

The tyre compound is different.

 

often wonder when you see on the news people getting stuck how many have winter tyres fitted.

saw something on YouTube where a 2 wheel drive on winter tyres out did a 4 wheel drive on summer tyres up a slope

 

macafee2

Yes it exists and is quite remarkable what the difference was.

 

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To err is human, to really foul things up requires a computer!

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