Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
sjmayley

HELP! Dents from awning pole pad on Elddis 840

Recommended Posts

I bought a new Elddis Riva 840 from 3 A's, Camarthen, Wales in April 2018.

to my surprise following removal of my awning after the summer season, I noticed there were 5 dents appeared at every position where the pad connects to the caravan side/shell.

 

This has never happened to me on any of my previous vans, and following speaking to many Caravan goers this is the first time they have heard of it. I have also walked around and viewed many caravans and could not identify the same issue on any vans on my site or others.

 

I have spoken to the manufacturer and they state 'that this is not covered under the warranty has I have basically tightened the awning poles up to tight'. I consider this to be utter nonsense as I have not tightened it up any tighter than any of my others vans. also, am I the only one that has allegedly over tightened my awning pole and cause their van to dent!!

 

I have written to the Dealer 3 A's and stated that under the 'Consumer Rights Act 2015' the van it 'not fit for purpose'.

 

has anybody else experienced this problem?? and where do I stand??

 

IMG_0833.JPG

IMG_0830.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had it on my Elddis from the wind one day pushing against the awning front and forcing the poles into the side and denting them .

 

Did you use those pole tensioners as they generate a lot of pressure ?

 

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have certainly read of it before and experienced it slightly some 12 years ago on a Swift caravan. With an awning left up for the Summer it does not really surprise me therefore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never seen anything so pronounced, but have known they leave witness marks seen at the right angles.

A bit more info might help deliberations.

Awning type, was it an "air" or "pole" type, type of pads employed, was it left on a "seasonal" or just the  normal occasional "touring" caravan usage,  size,  were guys deployed to take the head on wind forces, as examples?

 

The  "not fit for purpose" line  lodged on the van dealer rather than the awning dealer might create some real challenges  to win, as awnings vary so much that with some the van might cope and others not. Was, your specific awning usage part of any pre purchase discussion, with the van or awning seller? If so, you will be far better placed in any claim against one or other.

 

Also would a court deem these "dents" make a caravan "not fit for purpose"; in other than cosmetic  considerations ? I am sure the defence would quiz why it was now thought not fit to use.

 

I would be livid if it was mine.  

 

 

Edited by JTQ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, JTQ said:

I have never seen anything so pronounced

Not sure how pronounced they are and how much is reflection

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Easy T said:

Not sure how pronounced they are and how much is reflection

 

Very valid point,  so info on that  say against a straight edge would "help" at least understand the issue.

 I had assumed it would be alloy skinned, but is that so or is it a polymer on these vans?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have seen these on a few 'vans over past three or four years, so much that I no longer use my large awning.

 

geoff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All, thanks for your comments. as you can imagine I am absolutely distraught having paid £24,000 for a new van, and being told by the dealer at the time how strong these vans are, and that the shell was much tougher than ever before and would absorb a large force without denting. those comments went a long way in selling the van to me!

 

I have attached another photo and the dents caused by the front and centre pole can clearly been seen from a distance.

 

I used a Walkers 3. 0m width full size awning and erected it in accordance with the manufactures instructions. It was erected no different to any of my previous vans. i did not use tensioners to for the poles, they where basically tensioned by hand.

 

my previous van was 15 years old and seasonal sited on the same site the same as this van. I have walked around my site and I can cannot find this on any other vans on my site.

 

I have described this issue as 'not fit for purpose' because the van is not strong enough to support an awning (poles), which obviously it must be physically able to do so without causing damage.

 

this is not the only problems i have had (although all now fixed), from a failed water system, failed door lock handle, internal trim peeling off, failed hitch lock on collection. this van has had problems from the very beginning.

 

Not sure where to turn really as I feel I am going to have a fight on my hands with the dealer as i have basically got to prove that the shell is sub-standard/thinner than the design spec/quality in factory. obviously difficult  without taking apart and testing by an independent dealer.

 

i have insurance on the van so that may be an option but they may not see this as damage, which i believe is not. i believe it is failure of the product.

 

if there insurance fix it then what is to say this will not happen again. just lost all confidence in it.

08DE08F8.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, shipbroker said:

Have seen these on a few 'vans over past three or four years, so much that I no longer use my large awning.

 

geoff

After I first noticed a slight marking I started using pieces cut from carpet tile to spread the load.

 

13 minutes ago, sjmayley said:

I have described this issue as 'not fit for purpose' because the van is not strong enough to support an awning (poles), which obviously it must be physically able to do so without causing damage.

 

Revolutionary 'Strong-Lite' high-strength aluminium one-piece sides. Up to 40% stronger and 30% lighter??

Edited by Easy T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Easy T said:

After I first noticed a slight marking I started using pieces cut from carpet tile to spread the load.

 

Revolutionary 'Strong-Lite' high-strength aluminium one-piece sides. Up to 40% stronger and 30% lighter??

40% stronger?? surely this must be false. I never experienced this on my older van, or witnessed on any other vans the amount of damage it has caused to mine. if this statement is true then surely it must be a product failure as it should not have occurred.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I picked that up from Elddis website and so that might have been a 2019 model. I don't know personally

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trying to be constructive;  but  to quote : "I am going to have a fight on my hands with the dealer as i have basically got to prove that the shell is sub-standard/thinner than the design spec/quality in factory".

 

Realistically, the overwhelming odds are that your van will not be any different in skinning thickness, material hardness or substrate strength, to any other built on that line at that time. Going that particular route IMO will be futile.  

That in the pre purchase you were assured this was super strong, if told in the context of using a seasonal awning, could be real ammo.

Sadly, unless you got that reassurance IMO any claim of the van "not being fit for purpose" when used with a third party product, is shall we say wafer thin. But I am just an engineer, not a lawyer.

 

The van could be over skinned, hiding the dents, but these would need filling first so there are not voids left that would be weaker than original. Personally, I am not a great fan of such radical reworking and not for  non massive cosmetic dents like this; my grounds being the potential to buy in more issues is too high for the gain.

 

The basic issue IMO boils down to their impact on the van's resale value, rather any technical issue.

 

Significantly mitigating it re-occurring or getting worse I feel is easily addressed, just spread the point load of the pads over a much bigger area, so the substrate foam can carry any loading. At each point hang  a  foot long 6" deep 19 mm ply pad off the awning rail to land the poles pad's centrally on. I would Copydex oddments of Flotex or like carpet on the interface side, and fix a batten along the bottom edge as a stop for the pole end working off downwards.

 

I suspect in the fight to weight saving, the skinning material has been getting thinner, and the core foam substrate less dense over the years and todays vans are in that regard not as robust, even if as a structure they are otherwise stronger with the bonding technology. Hence their justified "stronger" claim; though not for point loading.

Edited by JTQ
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

. ...think the word seasonal may have something to do with it, lots more stresses over the season than an odd weekend event perhaps?

 

geoff

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I think that there are a number of caravans suffering the problem to a greater or lesser extent. Certainly in a high wind there will be considerable force onto those spacer poles.  

 

It would be as easy to argue that the awning braces are not fit for purpose as to argue that the caravan wasn't. I don't see an outcome that the OP will relish.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many awnings come with warnings to not use them in extreme weather. You may have difficulty proving that you did not ignore this warning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Easy T said:

 

 

It would be as easy to argue that the awning braces are not fit for purpose as to argue that the caravan wasn't. I don't see an outcome that the OP will relish.  

 

I agree entirely with both points and tried to say as much.

It also somewhat surprises me that with this very deep, and long full sized seasonal awning, from the photos I am assuming it is done with just three rather than five rafter poles taking the forces back to the skinning.

All points that will be as obvious to the dealer  or his advisers in considering the claim his product was not fit for purpose.

 

Edit: I hate this system's auto changing my words! Well the ones I got right initially anyway. ;)

Edited by JTQ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The OP refers to 5 dents so I assume 5 braces JTQ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Easy T said:

The OP refers to 5 dents so I assume 5 braces JTQ

yes 3 main poles and 2 intermediate poles. Dents in all 5 contact with the van

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, I stand corrected, but the last photo shows a massive span between the front and post door "dent", unless I am missing the intermediate dent?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, JTQ said:

Thanks, I stand corrected, but the last photo shows a massive span between the front and post door "dent", unless I am missing the intermediate dent?

 yes, intermediate dents only visible during close inspection

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elddis fit awning rails and a lot of awnings use poles so the sides should be strong enough to support a pole.

They quote "Revolutionary 'Strong-Lite' high-strength aluminium one-piece sides. Up to 40% stronger and 30% lighter" which they do not say is new for 2019.

How do you make something 30% lighter.

Imo with awning rails fitted the sides are too thin and not fit for purpose, I would get legal advice.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elddis also state 'their solid construction can contend with 20N per square millimetre of applied force to the caravan!!. . ..      And yet it cant even withstand the force of a standard awning pole pad!! what a load of #@!!~@!!!

Edited by sjmayley

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not just the force applied in tensioning though it is also the applied wind loading which I would have thought to be more significant 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am certain they are GRP sides from the finish.

To make it good again I should say those dents will require filling and painting. You then have the issue of preventing it happening again.

Not familiar with Walker awnings, do the ends of the pole against the caravan go into a pocket fixed to the awning rail (which can then come into contact with the side of the van ) or directly against the caravan? Is there a ‘pad’ fitted to the ends of the rafter poles and if so is the pad ‘padded’ and what size diameter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, sjmayley said:

Elddis also state 'their solid construction can contend with 20N per square millimetre of applied force to the caravan!!. . ..      And yet it cant even withstand the force of a standard awning pole pad!! what a load of #@!!~@!!!

 

Have you a link to that claim in its context?

 

It is very difficult to credit it refers to these point loadings on the van's skin.

 

If so, and the dents were as small as 40 mm diameter, the skin could resist  2. 5 tonnes.

Somehow I have my doubts they are describing the load carrying mode seen here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...