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Hybrid swindle


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A news item this morning refers to a government report about subsidised hybrid cars, used for engine powered only. As usual with news there was no detail of what sort of hybrid. I have suspected all along that the incentives are a "bull at a gate" approach, and drivers are simply taking advantage of the incentives.

Ern

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As one who enjoys using and towing a caravan I intend to continue using my diesel car until there is a clean alternative which can do the job as efficiently as my current vehicle.  The hybrid is of n

How does that swindle the Tax man? If the engine stays running it uses more petrol and that means paying more tax.

Why would any company fleet buyer refrain from buying the cheapest variant of a car just because it is subsidised? Why would anyone given a company car and company  fuel go to the trouble of plug

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Errr, it means any plug-in hybrid vehicle. .. So people aren't plugging them in for the whole 30 miles they would get after 8 hours and are driving them as they would a carbon based fuelled car. .. Jump in, drive off. ...

Larry from Essex

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Why would any company fleet buyer refrain from buying the cheapest variant of a car just because it is subsidised?

Why would anyone given a company car and company  fuel go to the trouble of plugging it in overnight just to save fuel that they are not going to pay for anyway?

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24 minutes ago, Ern said:

A news item this morning refers to a government report about subsidised hybrid cars, used for engine powered only. As usual with news there was no detail of what sort of hybrid. I have suspected all along that the incentives are a "bull at a gate" approach, and drivers are simply taking advantage of the incentives.

 

It's the Plug-In Hybrids - many of which are never plugged in! https://www. bbc. co. uk/news/business-46152853

 

Of course people take advantage of incentives so it's the government who's in the wrong - they have removed the purchase price subsidy but the VED rate is still too generous and PHEVs aren't doing the environment any good.

2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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The majority of cars purchased using this scheme appear to be company fleet venicles. These will be driven by employees who benefit from having company mileage fuel paid for. They will mainly be essential users so not parked in the company car park during the day, so even if the company provide charging points at the office, they will not be able to benefit from using them.

 

If the drivers use the internal combustion (IC) engine, the company pay. If they charge the vehicle at home, they have to pay for that electricity themselves. Why would they want to pay for the company use of the car?

 

It stands to reason that the company car drivers have no incentive to not use the IC engine and fill up with the free fuel and only the company have benefitted from the Government hand out when purchasing the car.

 

If the Governemt had looked at the issues logically, the handout could have been larger for private purchasers who would charge the cars at home, and smaller or non existant for company fleet purchases.

 

That may have tempted more private use without necessarily costing the Government any more.

 

The environmental benefits are not as great as some would have us believe, even when the cars are charged regularly, as most of the electricity used will have a carbon footprint somewhere, just not at the roadside!

 

 

Edited by reluctant
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Trevor.

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This is not a swindle. It is common sense.    Parliament's aim is to limit the use of vehicles burning fossil fuels.   Plug In Hybrid vehicles burn such fuels and should never have qualified for Incentives. The government made a mistake. The right course of action is to close that loophole.   

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3 minutes ago, bessacarr425 said:

This is not a swindle. It is common sense.    Parliament's aim is to limit the use of vehicles burning fossil fuels.   Plug In Hybrid vehicles burn such fuels and should never have qualified for Incentives. The government made a mistake. The right course of action is to close that loophole.   

Plug in hybrids, if used properly by overnight charging, are a sound concept particularly into the third and fourth generations with a sensible electric range. The "long tailpipe" effect with the carbon footprint at the power station end is still a problem though.

It is a pity though that the powers that be subsidised the sale rather than the proper use of these vehicles!

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I can understand the government wanting to kick start the hybrid market which could theoretically benefit everyone eventually, but the "Bull at a Gate" approach hasn't actually worked has it?  As a private buyer I wouldn't even consider a hybrid at the moment. Will fleet buyers now change from hybrids to lower cost ice cars?

Will sales of hybrid cars now fall off a cliff, and will prices tumble?

Ern

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As one who enjoys using and towing a caravan I intend to continue using my diesel car until there is a clean alternative which can do the job as efficiently as my current vehicle.  The hybrid is of no use to me.  If the Government is silly enough to make these loopholes available to folk who want to save a few bob that’s their fault.

John.

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Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he'll tell you. If he doesn't, why humiliate him?

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I m waiting for the prices to go up as these charging points on mass are being brought up by the private business men .

https://www. ft. com/content/78e15cb8-7a9a-11e8-bc55-50daf11b720d

There will be prices inflated slowly to match if not more than pump prices .

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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What goes round, come round, so I am holding onto Diesels as long as I can, I don't think I will be around when the Government insists that I have to have Hybrid or a Lecky car  They have not thought it through thoroughly, where is the energy coming from, how are drivers going to charge their cars on very long journeys, when they do find somewhere they will have to kill a good few hours to recharge their batteries before continuing

Edited by Les Medes

Les

 

 

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It’s not a swindle - it’s a simple reality.  Lease rates are based on the purchase, retained value and running costs and those with a choice often select the cars with the least tax impact; the subsidy to purchase made them affordable to a company, the way they perform under the economy and emissions cycle ensure low tax rates.

 

Plenty of people used to select a Prius as a company car despite battering down the motorway at 80 for the same reason.

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43 minutes ago, FrankBullet said:

It’s not a swindle - it’s a simple reality.  Lease rates are based on the purchase, retained value and running costs and those with a choice often select the cars with the least tax impact; the subsidy to purchase made them affordable to a company, the way they perform under the economy and emissions cycle ensure low tax rates.

 

Plenty of people used to select a Prius as a company car despite battering down the motorway at 80 for the same reason.

Agreed, sidestepping the intention of regulation whilst complying with the letter of it is not swindling. Underhand, devious, sleazy, yes, but not swindling! Pretty commonplace actually.

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1 hour ago, CommanderDave said:

I m waiting for the prices to go up as these charging points on mass are being brought up by the private business men .

https://www. ft. com/content/78e15cb8-7a9a-11e8-bc55-50daf11b720d

There will be prices inflated slowly to match if not more than pump prices .

 

 

Dave

Nice find Dave. Now why would BP want to buy a charging network for electric cars? I just cant work it out.  :rolleyes:

Edited by Ern

Ern

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There are also those that plug into spare sockets at a hotel, charge the car overnight and then enjoy around 20 miles of free motoring whilst claiming back for "fuel" used over that trip.   Some of our drivers have the BMW 330E and chose this (and others such as VW's) purely for the BIK saving.   They save a lot of money but the battery range (in the winter especially) isn't good and the weight of the cars with batteries doesn't do any good for the petrol consumption.

 

The only attraction to these cars is the BIK saving, when that is removed the attraction to hybrids for many will be lost.

2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

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When we all have millions of these electric cars someone is going to have to pay to dispose of these batteries when changed ?

 

I pay £1. 50 to dump a tyre at my dump and £3 for a bag of rubble now .

 

Dave

Jeep Commander 3. 0 V6 CRD

Isuzu D- Max Utah Auto

Elddis Crusader Storm 2000 Kgs, Unipart Royal Atlas Mover .

 

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23 minutes ago, CommanderDave said:

When we all have millions of these electric cars someone is going to have to pay to dispose of these batteries when changed ?

 

I pay £1. 50 to dump a tyre at my dump and £3 for a bag of rubble now .

 

Dave

Quite agree Dave.

And where is the charging juice going to come from? The Chinese/EDF and Toshiba reactor plans are stalled/fallen over. We will be way short of capacity unless the monkeys in Whitehall grip the problem.

And of course when Nirvana is achieved and the place is covered with nice thick copper charging cables then imagine all the thieving insects out most nights hoovering them up.

Oh, of course that'll be between them nudging all those autonomous lorries of the road so they can 'ave away wiv da contents innit!😁

GB.

. .....still feel like that some days. :) But not when D4 is hooked up to Commodore.

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So if all these hybrid company cars are not being charged up as intended, will that make them a better buy secondhand

because there'll be more years life left in the batteries?  Or will the batteries have a shortened life because they will have spent say three years on a discharged state before being sold on.

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they get charged by the engine and regenerative braking

2018 S-Max Titanium 2. 0 Tdci (177. 54bhp,180ps,132kw) Powershift + 2015 Unicorn III Cadz, Ventura Marlin porch awning

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Another problem that is being ignored is the trip hazard posed by charging leads draped across the footpath due to a lot of street lighting columns not being on the kerbside of the pavement.

 

Personally I consider the whole electric vehicle hype to be like a pantomime. There is a place for electric power with vehicles but it’s too early for it

2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

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A chap up the road from us has a Nissan leaf and a bunch of panels on his garage roof which he uses to charge it. He just uses the car locally.

This seems to me to be the only low risk use model for electric vehicles as things stand.

. .....still feel like that some days. :) But not when D4 is hooked up to Commodore.

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The company drivers who have plug in hybrids benefit from not paying so much gift in kind tax. The fact they are not using the plug in bit essentially means they are swindling the tax man a bit, As Matelodave says there is a certain amount of self charging. I believe a charging system at home would require a 40amp dedicated circuit for a quick charging system.

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And talking of swindling the tax man, how many of you with stop/start vehicles prefer to turn it off when you get in the car ?

Land Rover on SORN so not towing anything for a while

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