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Mr Plodd

Caravan gross weight, a response from Bailey!

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47 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

I haven't actually seen an example of what you have described displaying two different MTPLM's on the same plate. Perhaps someone would like to post a photo of such a label.

 

The only one we've on seen CT has been from an Elddis (Hymer UK) van, but sadly, for our purposes, it was an upgraded van, so the MTPLM's matched.

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31 minutes ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

 

The only one we've on seen CT has been from an Elddis (Hymer UK) van, but sadly, for our purposes, it was an upgraded van, so the MTPLM's matched.

 

Yes, I think we are talking about the same example that we've seen. It really would be interesting to see what the same plate looks like on a 'non-upgraded' caravan.

Edited by Lutz

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I believe they still match. It would be interesting to see if none upgraded elddis and lunar coc’s match the plate. I bet they don’t.

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Which bit of the plate matches Handy? The statutory bit usually features an MTPLM that matches the axle limit, as per the gas locker plate on other brand vans and presumably the NCC portion has the allocated MTPLM as exists on the exterior sticker on other brands.

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I can see your all very happy.

 

I wasn't going to comment anymore, but having read some of the posts I think I must.

 

I think the problem is that some are set in their ways kinda thinking.

 

So before I tell you what's happening with caravan plates, which will be later on today, I'm going to give a part clue to see if you can work it out for yourselves, which I've always found to be the more effective way of remembering.

 

This came to me whilst pottering about in my garage this morning, I happen to look at a box of matches, and it halfway explains what's happening with caravans.

 

Why does a box of UK matches have on the back both a

 

BSI and EN numbers ?

 

Not looking for a technical answer,, the simplest answer is the one.

 

In fact I 'll even start your answer for you  you just have to finish this sentence.

 

Because the UK xxxxx xxx xxxx xx xxx xxx xxxxxxxxxxx.

Edited by Simple Life
Make it a little easier

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The maximum gross in the statutory area of the plate matches the mtplm outside it. But what does the coc say?

 

I suspect the higher weight. Elddis and lunar are doctoring the statutory plate. Bailey coachman swift are adding another plate.  

 

Which plate/weight is legal? Whichever one the manufacturer says is!

 

 

Edited by handyandy

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25 minutes ago, handyandy said:

The maximum gross in the statutory area of the plate matches the mtplm outside it. But what does the coc say?

 

I suspect the higher weight. Elddis and lunar are doctoring the statutory plate. Bailey coachman swift are adding another plate.  

 

Which plate/weight is legal? Whichever one the manufacturer says is!

 

 

 

Manufacturers can't make up their own laws though, they have to comply with them.

 

The gas locker plate is a statutory one because it complies with the WVTA/C&U legally stipulated layout. The CofC should match the info on the statutory plate. The combined exterior type also complies because the extra info that an NCC plate provides is printed below the statutory info and separated by a line from the legally required data. 

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43 minutes ago, handyandy said:

 

Which plate/weight is legal? Whichever one the manufacturer says is!

 

Shouldn’t the manufacturers start making caravans that don’t leak.  Before they move onto making up laws?

Edited by fred
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Please keep to your original "promise" Simple Life

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12 minutes ago, Vermont2 said:

Please keep to your original "promise" Simple Life

I have by email.

 

Have a go at the puzzle

Edited by Simple Life
  • Confused 1

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The road traffic act allows the secretary of  state to authorise alteration that override the original coc. They are not making up laws.  

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6 minutes ago, handyandy said:

The road traffic act allows the secretary of  state to authorise alteration that override the original coc. They are not making up laws.  

 

If the MTPLM is up or downplated of course the Certificate of Conformity must be re-issued to reflect the revised figure.

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No it doesn’t if the vehicle is registered.  

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2 hours ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

 

Manufacturers can't make up their own laws though, they have to comply with them.

 

The gas locker plate is a statutory one because it complies with the WVTA/C&U legally stipulated layout. The CofC should match the info on the statutory plate. The combined exterior type also complies because the extra info that an NCC plate provides is printed below the statutory info and separated by a line from the legally required data.  

 

These caravans have to comply with European regulations we are using them on European roads and what it has to do with the UK Road traffic act ?

 

Good luck standing at the side of the road arguing with a European police officer that it is legal because under the UK RTA .

 

Dave

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1 hour ago, CommanderDave said:

These caravans have to comply with European regulations we are using them on European roads and what it has to do with the UK Road traffic act ?

 

Good luck standing at the side of the road arguing with a European police officer that it is legal because under the UK RTA .

 

Dave

 

Well how do uk truck driver argue their ministry plates abroad then.  

 

I would say that if it is a uk registered vehicle with a uk licenced driver and legal in the uk the foreign plod wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. As long a it hadn’t been out of the uk for over twelve months of course.  

 

Using your logic anybody travelling abroad with only one fog light on the uk side would be in trouble!

 

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2 hours ago, Simple Life said:

 

 

Why does a box of UK matches have on the back both a

 

BSI and EN numbers ?

 

Not looking for a technical answer,, the simplest answer is the one.

 

In fact I 'll even start your answer for you  you just have to finish this sentence.

 

Because the UK xxxxx xxx xxxx xx xxx xxx xxxxxxxxxxx.

Seen as it's all going silly again, I will give the answer to the match box puzzle, then all ponder on it re caravans.

 

Because the UK still has some of its own regulations.

Edited by Simple Life

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1 hour ago, Simple Life said:

 

 

Because the UK still has some of its own regulations.

 

No it does not by law an item has to meet all the market regulations that it is sold in so selling a car or caravan into the European market it has to comply to European regulations .

 

Dave

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1 hour ago, CommanderDave said:

No it does not

 

Dave

That's a very large hole you have just dug!

 

Off to a Christmas market, I will give an explanation later today.

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28 minutes ago, handyandy said:

 

Well how do uk truck driver argue their ministry plates abroad then.  

 

I would say that if it is a uk registered vehicle with a uk licenced driver and legal in the uk the foreign plod wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. As long a it hadn’t been out of the uk for over twelve months of course.  

 

Using your logic anybody travelling abroad with only one fog light on the uk side would be in trouble!

 

 

 

So why can't you take a vehicle over 4 m into Europe ?

 

 

Dave

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49 minutes ago, CommanderDave said:

So why can't you take a vehicle over 4 m into Europe ?

 

Dave

 

Because they have stupidly low power cables. You can by special arrangement.  

 

We can still build and run them over here though, in the same way we can replate our trailers.  

 

Anybody who thinks there is any harmony with either vehicle standards and road policing across Europe is very mistaken!

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46 minutes ago, handyandy said:

 

Well how do uk truck driver argue their ministry plates abroad then.  

 

I would say that if it is a uk registered vehicle with a uk licenced driver and legal in the uk the foreign plod wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. As long a it hadn’t been out of the uk for over twelve months of course.  

 

Using your logic anybody travelling abroad with only one fog light on the uk side would be in trouble!

 

 

A vehicle with the fog light on the wrong side can visit and under The Vienna convention it is tolerated but the country of entrance still has the right to refuse entry .

 

It is like bringing 7m+ caravans  to the UK towed by vehicles under 3500 kg while they are excepted as visiting they can still be stopped from entering at the port.

 

 

Visiting and selling are two different things .

 

 

Dave

 

 

Edited by CommanderDave

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8 minutes ago, CommanderDave said:

 

A vehicle with the fog light on the wrong side can visit and under The Vienna convention it is tolerated but the country of entrance still has the right to refuse entry .

 

It is like bringing 7m+ caravans  to the UK towed by vehicles under 3500 kg while they are excepted as visiting they can still be stopped from entering at the port.

 

 

Visiting and selling are two different things .

 

 

Dave

 

 

 

As said previously, if a uk caravan is sold abroad or permanently export it would then refer back to the coc.  

 

Type approval on uk sold/run caravans is effectively worthless.  

 

It is an offence to sell or use an o2 trailer without type approval in the uk. It is not an offence to make alterations to it after it has received approval.  As there is no notifiable alteration scheme for o2 trailers    with overrun brakes Bailey have a free hand and what they say goes.  

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1 hour ago, CommanderDave said:

No it does not by law an item has to meet all the market regulations that it is sold in so selling a car or caravan into the European market it has to comply to European regulations .

 

Dave

only if it is exported to Europe.

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22 minutes ago, handyandy said:

 

As said previously, if a uk caravan is sold abroad or permanently export it would then refer back to the coc.  

 

Type approval on uk sold/run caravans is effectively worthless.  

 

It is an offence to sell or use an o2 trailer without type approval in the uk. It is not an offence to make alterations to it after it has received approval.  As there is no notifiable alteration scheme for o2 trailers    with overrun brakes Bailey have a free hand and what they say goes.  

 

We are not talking about alterations and schemes we are talking about new caravans sold into a European market and sticking plates on and making statements that they supersede the mandatory VIN plate .

 

Where does it state in regulation in EU law the police are required just to use just a plate on the side and not the VIN plate ?

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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For the present the UK is part of the EU market and because that is a single market the EU regulations have been adopted into UK law, hence the marriage between WVTA and C&U plating requirements.

 

Reducing the MTPLM at initial sale doesn't happen after the sale, so that's a red herring.

 

Before sale the standard van will have an arbitrary second MTPLM applied to it by the manufacturer. The decal that features that amended MTPLM on doesn't comply with WVTA/C&U regulations, so therefore can't be a legally enforced.  To me the answer is to have the lower weight on the statutory plate as well, so the two match, if they insist they want two plates. Why they don't put the lower weight on the statutory plate I can't figure.

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