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swaggy

556-6 weight replate

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I have a somewhat difficult question which I hope someone may have an answer to.

 

I was looking to try to replate my  2004 Avondale  556-6 to give me a bit more payload.    I have had it just over 2 years.

I contacted the dealer who I purchased it from and they said basically the van was too old and  a replate was no longer possible.   

Given that Avondale are no more, is this a forelorn  hope or does someone know a way to do it.

 

Very appreciative of any help given.

 

 

 

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There are a number of issues affecting your situation.

  1. Any upgrading of an MTPLM has to be done via the manufacturer and as Avondale no longer exist it's probably a forlorn hope. 
  2. Even existing manufacturers usually refuse to get involved with upgrades after a van is about 5 to 7 years old.
  3. Is the van axle capable of handling a worthwhile upgrade anyway? The original MTPLM may be too close to the axle limit to make it worth doing.

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1 hour ago, swaggy said:

 is this a forlorn  hope .

 

 

Knew someone with a somewhat older Mardon who wanted to upgrade and for reason you gave, i. e. manufacturer no longer exists, they  couldn't do it. ..

There may be a way but sorry I don't know of one.

 

geoff

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If you can prove either by documentation or by calculation that the vehicle is capable of complying with all the necessary legislative requirements ie  axle load, drawbar  load and bending moment, brake compatibility calculations etc,  then it should be possible to IVA it in the same way as if you had built it from scratch.  

As you haven't manufactured components such as the axles ideally you will be able to show an axle plate or manufacturers details that support your claim for a higher mass.

If you modify any part or parts to increase its capacity you essentially then become the manufacturer and would need to provide test reports to prove their viability. For example a drawbar may need a 2 million cycle test. .. not cheap.

Edited by Towtug

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If the axle plate shows a higher weight, and you upgrade the tyres appropriately, AND you remove the exisiting plate by the door, what's to stop you improving your payload given that the manufacturer no longer exists.

I'm interested because I have a Fleetwood (manufacturer went bust in 2009) and always struggle to keep within MTPLM.

Perhaps Lutz might care to comment.

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25 minutes ago, onewheelonmywagon said:

If the axle plate shows a higher weight, and you upgrade the tyres appropriately, AND you remove the exisiting plate by the door, what's to stop you improving your payload given that the manufacturer no longer exists.

I'm interested because I have a Fleetwood (manufacturer went bust in 2009) and always struggle to keep within MTPLM.

Perhaps Lutz might care to comment.

 

Towtug's comments would be more pertinent as it's his area of expertise. 

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8 hours ago, onewheelonmywagon said:

If the axle plate shows a higher weight, and you upgrade the tyres appropriately, AND you remove the exisiting plate by the door, what's to stop you improving your payload given that the manufacturer no longer exists.

I'm interested because I have a Fleetwood (manufacturer went bust in 2009) and always struggle to keep within MTPLM.

Perhaps Lutz might care to comment.

 

I am sure Towtug will agree, but you can only remove the existing plate by the door if there is a statutory plate somewhere else applied by the caravan manufacturer, in this case Avondale, and not just the one on the axle.

 

Edited by Lutz

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As a pre Type Approval  Regulations produced vehicle presumably whatever regs about plating that were in force in '04 apply, or would current regulations override them on existing vans?

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27 minutes ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

As a pre Type Approval  Regulations produced vehicle presumably whatever regs about plating that were in force in '04 apply, or would current regulations override them on existing vans?

 

No, a statutory plate that fulfills the requirements of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, before whole vehicle type approval came into effect, will suffice.

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Not likely, because it's attached with rivets, but if the plate by the door falls off what offence would I be committing.

I wouldn't be able to get a replacement from the manufacturer, and DVSA would only have the axle plate as reference if they pulled me over.

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As it is a pre Oct 2012 caravan I don't think the caravan manufacturer's plate is a statutory requirement as it does not comply with the mandatory requirements of the plate as per the legislation.  

It is my understanding that plates on pre Oct 2012 caravans were actually "guidelines" issued by manufacturers and you could not be prosecuted in court using the data off that plate.   However if you exceed the weights on the chassis/axle plate or the load rating on the tyres then a successful prosecution could be brought against you.   

Was it possible to upgrade the MTPLM when the caravan was brand new?  However why not write to DVSA stating your concerns and wait for an answer and then come back here and update us.   :D

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4 hours ago, Durbanite said:

As it is a pre Oct 2012 caravan I don't think the caravan manufacturer's plate is a statutory requirement as it does not comply with the mandatory requirements of the plate as per the legislation.  

It is my understanding that plates on pre Oct 2012 caravans were actually "guidelines" issued by manufacturers and you could not be prosecuted in court using the data off that plate.   However if you exceed the weights on the chassis/axle plate or the load rating on the tyres then a successful prosecution could be brought against you.   

Was it possible to upgrade the MTPLM when the caravan was brand new?  However why not write to DVSA stating your concerns and wait for an answer and then come back here and update us.   :D

 

There was already legislation covering statutory plates before vehicle type approval came into effect. Reference: Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986.

It is the stage 2 manufacturer's plate (that of the caravan manufacturer) that counts, not that of stage 1 (the manufacturer of the chassis or axle).

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18 hours ago, Lutz said:

 

There was already legislation covering statutory plates before vehicle type approval came into effect. Reference: Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986.

It is the stage 2 manufacturer's plate (that of the caravan manufacturer) that counts, not that of stage 1 (the manufacturer of the chassis or axle).

I am surprised with your comment above as the caravan manufacturers pre-Oct 2012 plates have absolutely zero standing in any legislation as it is not a mandatory plate.   After all it is stuck onto the caravan with glue, easily removed and does not show the CRiS number the latter having no standing either in law.  

You could probably get a stick on plate off eBay quite legally and the data on it could never be used in any court of law in the UK.   The EU may be different as they have some rather strange laws.   :D

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On 28/08/2018 at 07:36, Lutz said:

 

I am sure Towtug will agree, but you can only remove the existing plate by the door if there is a statutory plate somewhere else applied by the caravan manufacturer, in this case Avondale, and not just the one on the axle.

 

 

Agree the only person that can legally declare a weight limit would be the 2 nd stage builder as the chassis plates  including axle plates are only for the chassis not the caravan structure itself .

 

You can have a 7500 kg box lorry with a 10 t rear axle but that does not mean it can be loaded to 10t unless the box structure has been built and tested to carry the weight .

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1 hour ago, Durbanite said:

I am surprised with your comment above as the caravan manufacturers pre-Oct 2012 plates have absolutely zero standing in any legislation as it is not a mandatory plate.   After all it is stuck onto the caravan with glue, easily removed and does not show the CRiS number the latter having no standing either in law.  

You could probably get a stick on plate off eBay quite legally and the data on it could never be used in any court of law in the UK.   The EU may be different as they have some rather strange laws.   :D

 

You say pre-Oct 2012 there was no such thing as a mandatory plate for caravans. Then how do you reconcile the 1986 UK requirement for a statutory plate? There is no reference in that Construction and Use Regulation exempting caravans from the need to have a statutory plate.

There is no piece of legislation forbidding a stuck-on statutory plate. It only says that it shall be, quote "firmly attached".

 

Edited by Lutz

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3 hours ago, Lutz said:

 

You say pre-Oct 2012 there was no such thing as a mandatory plate for caravans. Then how do you reconcile the 1986 UK requirement for a statutory plate? There is no reference in that Construction and Use Regulation exempting caravans from the need to have a statutory plate.

There is no piece of legislation forbidding a stuck-on statutory plate. It only says that it shall be, quote "firmly attached".

 

Lutz spend a bit of time reading up on mandatory plates etc.   I know I am right on this as a few years ago I wrote to VOSA asking for clarification and received a reply from the head honcho and not someone in customer services.  

Sadly I no longer have that document, but you are welcome to write to the DVSA which replaced VOSA and ask them the same question regarding pre 2012 caravans.   If they reply differently then I will go along with the new answer.   :)

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The requirements as laid down in the Construction and Use Regulations are quite clear and unambiguous, even to the uninitiated. They are there in legislation for all to read so there is no need to approach any "head honcho" for his own interpretation of the law. If I have missed something a simple reference to the source of where the head honcho got his information from would help, because despite intense efforts I can't find anything to that effect.

 

Edited by Lutz

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In the UK we have one huge benefit when it comes to trailer legislation,  put simply trailers under 3500 kg  aren't registered and therefore they are not recorded.

True since the mid seventies ( well the 50s actually) they have been controlled by legislation such as C and U and RVLR but this has only really ever applied to the original manufacturer and rarely if ever to the user as there is no requirement for testing.

If you were to modify a trailer by rights you should IVA but it's unlikely a trailer could ever be detected unless involved in an incident.

 

Since mandatory type approval that has all changed because records are kept by manufacturers and approval authorities for at least ten years so it's relatively easy for authorities to prove the original build spec of an individual vehicle.

 

For an older vehicle follow these steps

 

1  Check and be able to prove that axle is capable of the increased MTPLM

2  Ensure the Tyres are coded for the new weight.

3  Ensure the drawbar, coupler and inertia device are capable. Either from manufacturers data or by calculation using Reg 55 as a reference.

4  Ensure the brake capacity is sufficient again by manufacturers data (usually AL-KO or BPW) or by calculation using Reg 13 as a reference.

5  Prepare a suitable Statutory plate and replace the original plate. For IVA you will also need a plate specifying the overall dimensions of the trailer (length and width.)

6  Complete the IVA paperwork and book in for a test. You can submit your supporting evidence with the application or present it as required at the time of the assessment.

 

Be aware also that an IVA isn't selective the whole vehicle will be assessd so you need to make sure everything is compliant when submitting to the examination.

 

Edited by Towtug

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Just carry less stuff in the van.

  • Haha 1

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Difficult with 6 berths on a single axle.  

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