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Avtex shutting down?


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Every time the wife lights the gas hob or oven in the caravan the Avtex TV switches off for a seconds or three until the hob is lit.   I have no idea why it does this.   It is a Thetford hob / oven.   Any suggestions?

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Interference from the spark ignition I'd say. There should be no interference according to EU standards so I would have a word with your caravan dealer.

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7 minutes ago, Ern said:

Interference from the spark ignition I'd say. There should be no interference according to EU standards so I would have a word with your caravan dealer.

Pleased that you have come up with the same sort of conclusion as that was my thinking and I agree about EU standards.   We will get them to sort out the issue when it is in for its first service.

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17 minutes ago, Ern said:

Interference from the spark ignition I'd say. There should be no interference according to EU standards so I would have a word with your caravan dealer.

Is it possible to create a high voltage spark without interference?

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6 minutes ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

Is it possible to create a high voltage spark without interference?

I would not expect it to cause the TV to shut down.   Maybe some very brief flashing lines on screen.

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Doses it happen if the fridge is starting up on gas and the hot water on gas and the heating on gas?

Andrew

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2 hours ago, Durbanite said:

Every time the wife lights the gas hob or oven in the caravan the Avtex TV switches off for a seconds or three until the hob is lit.   I have no idea why it does this.   It is a Thetford hob / oven.   Any suggestions?

 

To be technically correct the TV does not switch off, rather it's ability to decode the digital signal is hampered by the interference generated by the spark so rather than have the picture and sound break up (sound breakup can be frighteningly loud) it just 'mutes' both picture and sound for a few seconds.

 

The cause is that the spark is in the open and generating wideband electrical noise which is being picked up by the TV aerial system. My guess is that the cable between the fitted outlet and your TV is (with all due respect) a cheap and nasty item made with cable that has poor screening. You need to find someone who knows what they are doing to get a length of cable such as PF100 or similar and make a cable up for you. PF100 (and its relations) like all modern TV aerial cable (which doubtless Elddiss will have used) has a foil cover around the inner core which will provide a very effective screen. Any decent local TV shop or aerial installer should be able to help you for a few pounds but DO NOT buy a ready made cable as you will have the same fault again.

 

I assume of course that your aerial is correctly aligned and polarised and thus maximising the signal of the transmitter you are attempting to use?

 

If you have no joy finding someone to help locally, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

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2 hours ago, Durbanite said:

Pleased that you have come up with the same sort of conclusion as that was my thinking and I agree about EU standards.   We will get them to sort out the issue when it is in for its first service.

I have this lovely vision of your caravan dealer looking into an EMC issue and perhaps rummaging through his box of ferrites to find one which will work. :unsure:

I think you'd best take Woodentop's advice and guidance. :D

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5 hours ago, Durbanite said:

Every time the wife lights the gas hob or oven in the caravan the Avtex TV switches off for a seconds or three until the hob is lit.   I have no idea why it does this.   It is a Thetford hob / oven.   Any suggestions?

 

We've had this intermittently on our Avtex too. It's the water pump that triggers it. If I mess about with the booster cable I can usually fix it temporarily. The Status aerial has a moulded on plug I keep meaning to remove and re-make.

Secondly I found Mrs TS had been wiggling the aerial lead in the back of the Avtex, always a no-no. It's fractured the solder joint internally where the coax socket is soldered to the PCB. That was a pig to fix. I found it by really softly moving the cable with hardly any effort and finding a position where the signal would disappear.

 

In both cases the water pump, or turning lights on/off would trigger a short pause in reception.

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13 hours ago, Woodentop said:

 

To be technically correct the TV does not switch off, rather it's ability to decode the digital signal is hampered by the interference generated by the spark so rather than have the picture and sound break up (sound breakup can be frighteningly loud) it just 'mutes' both picture and sound for a few seconds.

 

The cause is that the spark is in the open and generating wideband electrical noise which is being picked up by the TV aerial system. My guess is that the cable between the fitted outlet and your TV is (with all due respect) a cheap and nasty item made with cable that has poor screening. You need to find someone who knows what they are doing to get a length of cable such as PF100 or similar and make a cable up for you. PF100 (and its relations) like all modern TV aerial cable (which doubtless Elddiss will have used) has a foil cover around the inner core which will provide a very effective screen. Any decent local TV shop or aerial installer should be able to help you for a few pounds but DO NOT buy a ready made cable as you will have the same fault again.

 

I assume of course that your aerial is correctly aligned and polarised and thus maximising the signal of the transmitter you are attempting to use?

 

If you have no joy finding someone to help locally, PM me and I'll see what I can do.

It only happens when sparking the hob.   No issue with anything else.   I used the expression "switches off" as easier for people to understand the issue.   HDMI cable is used from the Sky box to the Avtex TV.  

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27 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

It only happens when sparking the hob.   No issue with anything else.   I used the expression "switches off" as easier for people to understand the issue.   HDMI cable is used from the Sky box to the Avtex TV.  

 

Ah, you didn't mention that you were using Sky which changes everything.

The cable from the dish to the Sky box must be OK as it carries power to the LNB on the dish, which leaves the HDMI cable as a possibility. Again I would suggest getting a new cable - Toolstation sell ProCeption cables which are well made, reliable and are in the way of things cheap, we are talking a fiver or thereabouts. The cable you have could also have insufficient screening causing the same problem as HDMI is high speed digital data which the TV will handle the same way as an incoming signal.

The only other possibility is a poor earth (12V negative and/or mains) on the cooker which is preventing the metal box construction of the cooker from screening the spark generation.

This is beginning to look like a dealer issue especially if the van is still under warranty.

One final thought: does your radio on any band (including DAB if it has it) suffer any audible noise when the ignitor is being used? If so then my earthing theory carries more weight.

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13 hours ago, GB1309 said:

I have this lovely vision of your caravan dealer looking into an EMC issue and perhaps rummaging through his box of ferrites to find one which will work. :unsure:

I think you'd best take Woodentop's advice and guidance. :D

As I was typing the above post ("have a word with your caravan dealer"), I was thinking just that! :D

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3 hours ago, Durbanite said:

I used the expression "switches off" as easier for people to understand the issue.   

Had me really confused, sadly.   I assumed set was going into standby, or shutting down completely. :lol:

 

Was going to ask if you were running TV on 12 V DC or mains. .. if you had a leisure battery or just using the power supply. .. 

But as it relates to $ky reception I'd concur with trying a different hdmi cable (pound shop ones can be fine)... and double-check the F-plugs are correctly made (try without any quick-fit push on adapters as well ) in case anything is getting in that way to upset the box rather than the TV?

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4 hours ago, Woodentop said:

 

Ah, you didn't mention that you were using Sky which changes everything.

The cable from the dish to the Sky box must be OK as it carries power to the LNB on the dish, which leaves the HDMI cable as a possibility. Again I would suggest getting a new cable - Toolstation sell ProCeption cables which are well made, reliable and are in the way of things cheap, we are talking a fiver or thereabouts. The cable you have could also have insufficient screening causing the same problem as HDMI is high speed digital data which the TV will handle the same way as an incoming signal.

The only other possibility is a poor earth (12V negative and/or mains) on the cooker which is preventing the metal box construction of the cooker from screening the spark generation.

This is beginning to look like a dealer issue especially if the van is still under warranty.

One final thought: does your radio on any band (including DAB if it has it) suffer any audible noise when the ignitor is being used? If so then my earthing theory carries more weight.

We have never used the Pioneer DAB radio side of it in the caravan as it appears to be useless at picking up any station, however seems to work okay when using Bluetooth.    I will change the HDMI cable and see how we get on however a thought has just occurred to me.   I am using the same HDMI cable as in the previous caravan and it was not an issue so perhaps you are correct about an issue in the caravan.

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This is a potential true can of worms Ian.

I was going to add to Woodentop's post that another potential route in for "interference" can be the PSU lead. Hence I was going to ask if you were using the direct 12v feed or the mains adaptor as they may well behave differently when it comes to suppression.

As the cooker ignition comes straight off the 12v I would expect your tv to be more susceptible to effect if it too was straight on the 12v. So that is another check you can do to see if there are differences in effect between the different power sources.

I recall fitting a USB point in my Caravel and it blanked the FM radio right out. I solved it with ferries and capacitor decoupling in the 12v feed to the USB unit. It helped that I had spent 40yrs in electronics of course.

EMC problems are notoriously difficult to solve and are often referred to as one of the black arts! Hence I was a little sceptical that your dealer might leap straight on the problem. :D

If you don't get anywhere I'll gladly meet you at the compound to have a look at it.

GB.

 

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7 hours ago, Durbanite said:

We have never used the Pioneer DAB radio side of it in the caravan as it appears to be useless at picking up any station, however seems to work okay when using Bluetooth.    I will change the HDMI cable and see how we get on however a thought has just occurred to me.   I am using the same HDMI cable as in the previous caravan and it was not an issue so perhaps you are correct about an issue in the caravan.

 

I'll tell you now the cause of DAB not working - because the aerial isn't connected.

Car radios with DAB have two aerial connections, one for LW/MW/FM and a second for DAB. The DAB connector however is very small and quite fragile so they wire everything in 7mm diameter RG58 (or RG6) and terminate it in an F-type (as used for the dish connection on the back of a Sky box), then use an F-type to SMB adapter. When the radio is pushed home the cable backs up against the wall of the housing, applies angular force, and the plug disconnects from the radio.

There will likely be a one-in two-out F-type splitter behind the radio to feed the two aerial sockets so I would suggest you get one of these pigtails and remove the existing big thick and unnecessary cable. The LW/MW/FM  aerial will be able to handle the thicker cable.

Then you can see if it exhibits interference; try it on FM as well but don't bother with LW/MW as that part of the radio is fed off the TV aerial which only passes FM(VHF)/DAB/TV frequencies. Also your TV aerial should be vertical to receive DAB - when vertical the VHF and DAB part of the aerial is non-directional.

Good luck.

Edited by Woodentop
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ok so with the pre wire internally of the caravan,it has very good sheilded cable and quaility sealed ends. But what durbanite fails to tell is the Sat is not a prewired cable but a roof mounted device that was fitted separatly. Maybe they did not use a good quality cable? maybe they did?

I dont know the route that the OP had the sat fitted,weather it come down via the radio cabinet or thru the locker above the micro. if it came thru the radio cabinet then they might have used the cable from inside there as that is where the splitter and booster are located. and i know there are 5 splits on that box alone on the ariel side, but none for the sat pre cabling. unless fitter used the tv wiring for the sat to the control box for the satfi.

Secondly the radio uses the Teleco roof ariel and is designed for Tv and not DAB. yet Elddis fail to tell you this.(as somebody has posted on hear before and that was the result of a reply from Teleco).hence the reason the radio will not pick up stations via dab. but will on the lw /mw side.

I came across this and found that a loose wire on the cooker peitzo was making the spark jump there insted of the rings.

Some times it would also blow the cooker fuse.

So would trust the fitter of the satfi has done there job ok as it work fine until other eqipment is used.

So would go down the route of a dealer visit, this would in the case of Durbanite, give a excuse to have a few nights away too. :D

Edited by smino0_1
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11 hours ago, smino0_1 said:

ok so with the pre wire internally of the caravan,it has very good sheilded cable and quaility sealed ends. But what durbanite fails to tell is the Sat is not a prewired cable but a roof mounted device that was fitted separatly. Maybe they did not use a good quality cable? maybe they did?

I dont know the route that the OP had the sat fitted,weather it come down via the radio cabinet or thru the locker above the micro. if it came thru the radio cabinet then they might have used the cable from inside there as that is where the splitter and booster are located. and i know there are 5 splits on that box alone on the ariel side, but none for the sat pre cabling. unless fitter used the tv wiring for the sat to the control box for the satfi.

Secondly the radio uses the Teleco roof ariel and is designed for Tv and not DAB. yet Elddis fail to tell you this.(as somebody has posted on hear before and that was the result of a reply from Teleco).hence the reason the radio will not pick up stations via dab. but will on the lw /mw side.

I came across this and found that a loose wire on the cooker peitzo was making the spark jump there insted of the rings.

Some times it would also blow the cooker fuse.

So would trust the fitter of the satfi has done there job ok as it work fine until other eqipment is used.

So would go down the route of a dealer visit, this would in the case of Durbanite, give a excuse to have a few nights away too. :D

The signal from the dish goes straight into the Sky box using high quality cable.   The RF signal from the box is then taken to the magic eye, then into the coaxial aerial plug under the front nearside bunk.   From there signal into cabling by splitter and by passing splitter so signal goes directly to coaxial outlet in bedroom.   We have only used the TV on EHU.   No issue on laptop and have never tried Tv in bedroom to see if it does the same.   Down at caravan tomorrow morning so may check using the other TV.

 

As per Woodentop even with cabling by splitter connected to splitter and amp switched on there is no DAB signal so probably correct that it is not connected to the aerial at the back of the radio. .  I don't think the Pioneer radio has FM/MW etc.   Not overly bother about no radio as previously we only use it to play music via CD, but this radio does not even have a CD slot!

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I doubt you will get a DAB only car radio - it will almost certainly have FM as well as in the UK DAB coverage is very far from as universal as FM and the coverage of the transmitters is different as most FM is omnidirectional whereas most DAB is directional. On the continent there is relatively little DAB.

The daft bit from my viewpoint is that the JVC fitted in our two previous caravans (Bailey Pag Maj S5 and Peg 462) was FM/MW but the JVC fitted in our latest (Uni Seville S4) has LW/MW/FM/DAB/DAB+ and it still has a CD player as well as Bluetooth, USB, and analogue audio inputs!!

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Hi Durbanite. you might be slightly wrong with the wiring of the sat. The sat would have to be wired to a signal finder box before the sky box. as its gets the power from there to search and lock onto a satellite. I am not sure of your type of box, as some need a separate power supply for the motors to work and some send power over the sat cable. So if you know if its a separate power supply,maybe weather has got in there as ive seen some of the Snipe type dishes have just a push in power 3. 5mm jack with a rubber gaitor. and out in the weather is not going to be good.

So maybe a test of turning on the tv and the sky box. leave until settle.(obviously you wont have a picture  yet,but might have the sky screensaver,as the sat wont be on).then once settle approx 2 min turn on the sat dish for it to do a search,and then see if it looses the picture(screensaver).

Just trying to shed some light. but i personally think it would be the over side of things.

Also the pioneers radio fitted (if orginal,which i would think so) does have dab and fm/mw/lw. but only the non dab side is used. and as said Hymer dont tell you this. As ive got the T shirt.

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The satellite dish was fitted about 2 weeks ago as there should be no issue there plus it was happening before the dish was fitted.  

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So then as i said before with mine. the wire for the peizo was a loose fit and would arc there insted of the ring. So poss could it be going to ground and arcing some where else? im not sure but with your info obviously does not look like the sat being the problem.

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