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a18041967

Tow Car Hire - Options & Costs.

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I'm currently in the middle of an issue with a new E-Pace which was our tow car but has been rejected as 'not fit for purpose'. My previous Kuga is no longer available  as it was a trade in.

 

Dealership have two options to find a similar car available at other dealerships or order a new factory build which could take 12 weeks. We need a tow car by the 21 July.

 

Currently we do have a Discovery with tow bar but cannot guarantee this will be available for our holiday.

 

So what options do I have for a hire car with tow bar and what should I expect to pay?

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If the E-Pace has been rejected as "not fit for purpose" then the selling dealer, with the backing of Jaguar UK, should be providing a courtesy car including like-for-like capability.

 

A quick Google for "hire car with towbar" would help - Enterprise have some.

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Somewhat out of your area, but Afford Rent a Car at Stoke / Crewe do tow bar fitted cars, pick ups and vans.

You have to drill down to the booking page to find out which vehicles have tow bars available which is a bit tedious. Their rates are good and insurance excess is built in. Rented towing vans regularly when my son was rallying and always good. You may not get a less than 6 month old car though! 

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2 hours ago, Black Grouse said:

If the E-Pace has been rejected as "not fit for purpose" then the selling dealer, with the backing of Jaguar UK, should be providing a courtesy car including like-for-like capability.

 

A quick Google for "hire car with towbar" would help - Enterprise have some.

Yes it's all a bit of a pain at the moment Jaguar are providing hire car but if we go down the new build route they could say old fault fixed return hire car. End of hire period.

 

It gets very complicated, as the E-Pace was purchased using employee discount 20% the dealership have little flexibility with covering extra costs. At the end of the day the dealer has inherited a duff car from Jaguar and Jaguar are not helping one bit. I had the car for 12 days and then told it was unsafe and could  not have it back. Jaguar have instructed the dealership not to move the car and its been in this state for over 20 days now. The fault with the car is the front collision detection system triggered incorrectly and bought the car to a stop and applied the hand brake on a dual carriage way with no cars in front, luckily the lorry and car behind avoided a collision, wife & daughter quite shaken.

 

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6 hours ago, a18041967 said:

 

 

. .. It gets very complicated, as the E-Pace was purchased using employee discount 20% the dealership have little flexibility with covering extra costs. At the end of the day the dealer has inherited a duff car from Jaguar and Jaguar are not helping one bit. ...

 

 

You may have purchased using an employee discount scheme (no doubt squeezing their margins) but surely that is no reason not to receive the same level of service as any other customer.   I would have thought the dealer principle can make any decision he likes in order to reduce any inconvenience to you.  

 

Given the nature of the problem you have described, which  sounds both dangerous and frightening, I would have thought the dealer/Jaguar would be jumping through hoops to keep you happy. The profitability of the deal has no place in any conversation with regards to resolving this for you.  

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I had a problem with my 2015 S-Max,  after four visits to dealers as far apart as Durham, Cambridge and Essex and two rides on the back of a recovery vehicle, the car was rejected when it was nine months old. The the dealer sorted me out with a loan vehicle whilst a replacement was found (about eight weeks) and got hold of  a Ford Kuga with a towbar for two weeks so we could go away with the caravan. I'm guessing that it might have been a manager's car but it made all the difference. We got our holiday and they've retained a very satisfied customer.

 

I also got a really really good deal on the replacement S-Max as well. I also get Ford employee discounts via my brother.

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If you are given a car with no tow bar there are quite a few places on the Internet who will tow your  van for you to site &pitch it. Obviously there is a cost involved but if you could squeeze a contribution to that cost from the dealer it may be worth looking at.

I'm going to be contacting a few in the next week or so to see the viability of doing this for a living. Not sure if I'll be up to it by the time you need it done but with current circumstances but they are out there.  

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Stating the obvious but your contract is with THE DEALER, not Jaguar it is up to them to sort it out with Jaguar not you. I would be turning the screws on the dealership for them to provide you with a replacement tow car.  

I would also be in contact with Jaguar customer service dept asking why, with such a serious fault, they have not collected the vehicle for investigation after the best part of three weeks inactivity. I would also be inclined to state that if no remedy is forthcoming within seven days  you will go to the national press! (Only state that if you are actually prepared to do it though) 

 

Andy

 

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6 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

Stating the obvious but your contract is with THE DEALER, not Jaguar it is up to them to sort it out with Jaguar not you. I would be turning the screws on the dealership for them to provide you with a replacement tow car.  

I would also be in contact with Jaguar customer service dept asking why, with such a serious fault, they have not collected the vehicle for investigation after the best part of three weeks inactivity. I would also be inclined to state that if no remedy is forthcoming within seven days  you will go to the national press! (Only state that if you are actually prepared to do it though) 

 

Andy

 

Already contacted Jaguar Executive Team who seem to have washed their hands of the problem, stating as you have my contract is with the dealer.

 

Dealership also trying to resolve problem with no support and now washing their hands of the problem stating they will refund my money. This is not good as I had a fully paid off tow car that is no longer available. To make things worse even if financially I got all my money back including money paid to finance company, Jaguar have change the car spec. As of today, Q3 has resulted in standard features which were included in my current car are now an additional £700 cost option.

 

I think from a legal point of view if the dealer has agreed to replace our car and Jaguar after 4 weeks have not identified the cause of the fault and fixed it, it's clearly a serious problem.

 

Having thought about this I'm going to step back and let the delays continue, 23rd July this is Industrial fort night and if nothing has happened I disappear on holiday with their  Discovery hire car.  If they do fix the car I will send both the dealership and Jaguar a letter stating the vehicle isn't fit for purpose and they will both be legally liable for and future related incidents.

 

Don't know what else I can do, I've started to look at Nissan X-trail but it just feels like I've been forced to buy an unnecessary car, I had a Ford Kuga and wouldn't have changed to X-trail. But I have no other options. Lets hope I have better news tomorrow Monday 

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I’d be amazed if your dealer couldn’t come up with something meaningful with support from JLR - when our DS4 was in last September/ October having a top-end rebuild I’d told the dealer about our holiday to Duinrell at half term, they were working to get the car ready in time but a back order on the head gasket scuppered the plan, with negotiation at Citroën UK they eventually got approval to hire us a Q3 with a towbar from Enterprise at £65/ day including European cover - as it happens we decided to cancel and get our money back in the end.

 

For a new car at a significant purchase price that has been rejected I’d expect a premium manufacturer like JLR to match the sort of service I got from Citroën on a used car that was 2. 5 years old at the time.

 

Also, as they regularly do towing tests with JLR products one option is for such a vehicle to be sent your way; my dealer did ask whether this was an option for us but PSA couldn’t come up with such a car at the time instead agreeing to the hire car.

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I escalated the issue this morning threatening to take the matter further and initially still waiting for fault report,  magically a few hours later a  fault report appeared with 'No Fault Found' & that the AEB was never triggered which seems very convenient.  I have to question why its taken nearly four weeks to establish this.

 

Now dealership do not have to find replacement car and Jaguar are  just walking away from the problems.

 

Worst car purpose I have ever made. ....anyone considering buying a Jaguar should avoid and go elsewhere.

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At the risk of upsetting the green oval brigade, I know quite a few people who have JLR products and without fail they have reliability issues (genuine stuff not the odd squeak from the dashboard), rubbish support through the dealer network and most of them still come back for more - I do wonder if JLR really don’t worry about product improvement rather spend all their time filling various niches and finding those that don’t exist.

 

I like the look of many of the products but would never buy one.

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Do JLR think you just made this incident up??  Time to go to the national press with it!

 

Andy

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14 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

Do JLR think you just made this incident up??  Time to go to the national press with it!

 

Andy

 

Exactly the point I have formally raised,.

 

Not fault found doesn’t mean the incident didn’t happen, it is now an incident that Jaguar are fully aware of and have failed to diagnose the cause. So in theory its significantly more serious but they are ignoring it.

 

Official response was ‘Your points have been noted’ and £400 compensation to cover the time I’ve been without my car. Ahh but theres a catch, its a voucher that can only be spent at Jaguar on over priced products linked to my vehicle! Good job I hadn’t paid for the maintenance plan, use the voucher for that.

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National daily press may not be the best way to go but a carefully selected and respected motoring journo may well be good move.  

Edited by jetA1

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9 hours ago, jetA1 said:

National daily press may not be the best way to go but a carefully selected and respected motoring journo may well be good move.  

 

Indeed that may be a good idea. Also I would be inclined to write to DVSA detailing the issue you had. It’s a “serious safety matter” which they are obliged to discuss with JLR. If they deny it ever happened, and someone else has a collision as a result of it happening to them, then JLR will be on VERY dodgy ground indeed.

 

This might be another “Zafira” type fault. Vauxhall were aware of the fault for years but buried their heads in the sand hoping it would go away. It didn’t.

 

It MAY be the same with JLR over this fault. If it gets into the press that might trigger others to confirm it’s happened to them and force JLR to address it.

 

NOTHING hurts a business more than bad publicity, get that pen out!!

 

Keep us posted won’t you?

 

Andy

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Further update, as of Monday I’d assumed I had run out of option and was preparing for the cars return followed by my news articles.

 

But. ... last night whilst in the pub I was checking my car using the mobile app which also includes journey history and surprise, surprise I find the journey in question but it is showing as two seperate journeys with a 1 minute break on the A1. The break indicates that the car was stopped and engine switched off and then restarted which tallies with what has happened. As a result I have sent both Jaguar and the dealership details of this new evidence and challenging them to review their findings. If they still insist no fault found I have asked for detailed logs relating to the break in the journey. If nothing is showing it may mean theres further issues with their logging and audit system.

 

If Jaguar continue to ignore this issue I may send an email to DVSA copying Jaguar cars as suggested above.

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This is a serious, and potentially dangerous, event. I think you SHOULD advise DVSA as soon as possible PARTICULARLY as you have a data log to show the break in the journey.

 

Andy

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So after nearly a week of silence I receive an email below from Jagaur. As can be seen it now feels like initially they were hoping I’d go away but have confirmed its an unsafe car.  Dealership are saying Jaguar beleive a software update is required, if this is the case how many other E-Pace owners are unknowingly driving unsafe cars. I’ve highlighted this point and also checked with the legal teams and I do have the option to cancel finance and walk away from the deal, but that then means I’m £8k worse of as I won’t have my discount returned and can only be used once a year.

 

 

In light of the information you have provided I have contacted Jaguar Land Rover Technical Department who looked deeper into the information you provided, and they have advised that there was a fault code for loss engine loss of speed.  This is not linked to the alleged AEB concern however, it does need to be looked at.  I have emailed xxxxx to advise this and asked when your vehicle will be back in the workshop.

I understand that this has not met your expectations at this time.  I can assure you that Jaguar Land Rover would not release a vehicle back to a customer they deemed to be unsafe.

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I would suggest that by rejecting the car then legally the deal is unwound to put you back in the same position as you were before the deal took place.

 

Which means you should still be eligible for everything that was available before the deal took place. 

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As they have now half admitted that there WAS indeed a fault and that initially they failed to spot (or accept had been logged) despite all of the evidence you provided I would be inclined to get back to them with. .

 

Thank you for your letter etc etc, You now appear to accept that my initial concerns WERE in fact somewhat justified! In view of this, and, in your own words 

 

“I understand that this has not met your expectations at this time.  I can assure you that Jaguar Land Rover would not release a vehicle back to a customer they deemed to be unsafe.

 

Would it not be reasonable to simply replace the vehicle that I have with an identical model thus enabling JLR to investigate this incident in considerable detail over an extended period of time. I am disappointed that you do not accept my version of events but is it likely that I made it up? ESPECIALLY in view of the dash cam footage I provided!

 

Should this fault re-occur at some future juncture, and a collision results, and the fact that I identified it at such an early point of ownership, and JLR refused to accept my claim (supported by dash cam footage)  the subsequent publicity would not show JLR in a particularly good light would it.

 

I am highly delighted with the vehicle itself, it’s just, as I am sure you can appreciate, I no longer have any faith whatsoever in this particular vehicle. In fact my family are VERY reluctant to travel in it. I would dearly love to continue owning one but the options I am being offered (insert details here) would have a considerabley adverse financial impact on me.

 

Worth a try at least!!

 

Andy

 

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On 12/07/2018 at 08:02, Mr Plodd said:

As they have now half admitted that there WAS indeed a fault and that initially they failed to spot (or accept had been logged) despite all of the evidence you provided I would be inclined to get back to them with. .

 

Thank you for your letter etc etc, You now appear to accept that my initial concerns WERE in fact somewhat justified! In view of this, and, in your own words 

 

“I understand that this has not met your expectations at this time.  I can assure you that Jaguar Land Rover would not release a vehicle back to a customer they deemed to be unsafe.

 

Would it not be reasonable to simply replace the vehicle that I have with an identical model thus enabling JLR to investigate this incident in considerable detail over an extended period of time. I am disappointed that you do not accept my version of events but is it likely that I made it up? ESPECIALLY in view of the dash cam footage I provided!

 

Should this fault re-occur at some future juncture, and a collision results, and the fact that I identified it at such an early point of ownership, and JLR refused to accept my claim (supported by dash cam footage)  the subsequent publicity would not show JLR in a particularly good light would it.

 

I am highly delighted with the vehicle itself, it’s just, as I am sure you can appreciate, I no longer have any faith whatsoever in this particular vehicle. In fact my family are VERY reluctant to travel in it. I would dearly love to continue owning one but the options I am being offered (insert details here) would have a considerabley adverse financial impact on me.

 

Worth a try at least!!

 

Andy

 

 

Thanks for your suggested letter, far better than what I’d have produced, not sure if I will need to use it as things may have changed for the better. So based on verbal comments from various people at the dealership they are also surprised at the current Jaguar response. I have found my original Ford Kuga tradein which is in the same dealership chain and they have agreed that I can have it back. Unfortunately things get a little complex, so whats planned is I have to buy my old car back at a slightly higher cost as the dealership has fitted new tyres, MOT’ed the car and are providing a 12 month warranty, I’m happy with cost as these are items I’d have had to pay for anyway. The dealership then settle the finance and they resell the car. All good so far. ..

 

But, as the car was purchased using the Jaguar Privilege scheme the T&C’s state that I have to keep and be the registered owner for 12 months. Failure to do this may result in my Father (Privilege owner) loosing the benefit and being liable to repay the Privilege amount, £8,000. This is now the last remaining problem, the dealership have checked with The Privilege Programme Manager and had confirmation that they will not be liable for the £8000 and they are advising me to get something in writing to confirm I won’t or my father won’t be liable either. I’m guessing the Programme Manager has only been asked if the dealership will be liable, not the fact that the car will be re registered and I’ll be breaking the T&C’s.

 

Its another waiting game until Monday, hopefully this won’t be another problem. If it is I either have to accept the ‘No fault Found’ car back or proceed with legal action. If I was to win the same re registration of the E-Pace would result.  

 

I now have 12 days until our holiday to Scotland lets hope all of the above is resolved and it become a distant memory. Not only has this tarnished my perception of JLR but I would serious question if I buy another new car?

 

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SHB hire 4x4s with towbars if you need one.

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So a quick update, original tow car returned and checked and all looking good for Friday's journey up to Scotland, over night stop at  Durham.  

 

There's one financial item that I need to confirm has been resolved and then I'll provide a little more detail, and name and shame people. It appears that I'm not the only person experiencing issues with JLR:

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, a18041967 said:

There's one financial item that I need to confirm has been resolved and then I'll provide a little more detail, and name and shame people.

Admin comment:

Please read the forum rules before posting names.

Thank you.

 

"Negative Posts:

Please avoid posting overly negative, aggressive or abusive comments about companies, organisations or individuals. Such posts will be removed, but ones taking a more subtle approach will probably remain, however naming and shaming is expressly forbidden. Both slander and libel are offences, and if you have a legitimate complaint, there are accepted routes through which these can be made. This forum is not one of them."

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