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Lutz

Dashcams in Germany

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A German high court ruling establishing a principle was reached today to allow dashcam recordings to be used as evidence in court. On the grounds of data privacy this has previously not been the case. However, it is still illegal to use a dashcam in Germany. It will no doubt take a bit of time for this apparent anomaly to be resolved. It now needs a court ruling to permit the use of dashcams as well to remove the conflict between these two standings.

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The acceptance and use of any sort of CCTV camera footage is drastically different in Germany to the UK. CCTV (including dashcams and the like) are absolutely everywhere in the UK, Big Brother is definitely watching the good folk of Britain, you rarely see them here in Germany.

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I understand that privacy laws are as stringent, if not more so, in Austria.

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Seems that short lengths of recording with overwrites are viewed as acceptable whilst continuous recording in public places are not.   Since most dash cams record in short "bursts" then repeat it might be argued they comply.   On the other hand since overwrites only occur after the media is full then clearly a great deal of footage could be stored. .

I wonder if a very small capacity card could be used?  I suspect the technical difficulty of continuous overwriting in a reliable manner might be an issue.

Bottom line is will a normal tourist be stopped and prosecuted if seen to have a cam installed?  Arguably the camera could be in place but not operating  which might suggest the police have better things to do than stop cars to check - and there again it might not!  

 

Those people with dash cams have a decision to make.   

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I have used mine in both Germany and Austria although I think the change of law in Austria has only recently changed. There are lots of satellite navigation devices that have built in cameras and you would hardly recognise them as cameras. The silly thing is say I want to film the Fern Pass, all I am interested in is the Fern Pass not the people on it. It also seems strange that proof of wrong doing is seen as something to do with privacy!

 

David

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The acceptance and use of any sort of CCTV camera footage is drastically different in Germany . ..........

1

 

And there is no (longer) any Google Street View of Germany.

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I have used mine in both Germany and Austria although I think the change of law in Austria has only recently changed. There are lots of satellite navigation devices that have built in cameras and you would hardly recognise them as cameras. The silly thing is say I want to film the Fern Pass, all I am interested in is the Fern Pass not the people on it. It also seems strange that proof of wrong doing is seen as something to do with privacy!

 

David

 

There is nothing wrong with filming the Fern Pass, not even with people appearing in the footage, but you mustn't show the recording to any third party. As soon as someone is recognisable and you intend to show the film to someone else, you theoretically need the consent of the person being filmed.

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Can't see it affecting anything by using dash-cams.   I mean to say, how many people have taken photographs when on holiday.   I look at my photos (yes, even holiday movies) and see how many people that are on them as they walk about and doing the same thing.   I always wondered how many photos that I appear on around the world:D

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If you found yourself recognisable on somebody else's photo and that photo was published in Germany for all to see then, if you have any objections, you could have the publisher of the photo indicted.

On a similar vein, speed cameras in Germany always take photos from the front because the holder of the vehicle must be given the opportunity of recognising the driver. However, the cameras must be set up so that the front passenger does not appear in the photo. This means that those driving on their own in right hand drive vehicles enjoy the privilege of not being able to get caught because the driver won't be visible.

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If you found yourself recognisable on somebody else's photo and that photo was published in Germany for all to see then, if you have any objections, you could have the publisher of the photo indicted.

On a similar vein, speed cameras in Germany always take photos from the front because the holder of the vehicle must be given the opportunity of recognising the driver. However, the cameras must be set up so that the front passenger does not appear in the photo. This means that those driving on their own in right hand drive vehicles enjoy the privilege of not being able to get caught because the driver won't be visible.

Are you sure Lutz, when I was living here as part of British Forces Germany I was driving my RHD car on my own near Celle, I was flashed speeding by a mobile camera, I received a fine and a 1 month ban (no points though)

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I do use a dash cam, front and back because I think they are a good idea.  But my insurance last year gave a discount and a free dash cam so long as a dash cam was used at all times.  Therefore, if I failed to use the camera my insurance would have been void.  The insurance company was French.

 

That insurance also included foreign use.

 

I never thought about it until reading this thread, but, I wonder how that situation would work if I did drive in Germany.

 

John

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Are you sure Lutz, when I was living here as part of British Forces Germany I was driving my RHD car on my own near Celle, I was flashed speeding by a mobile camera, I received a fine and a 1 month ban (no points though)

 

Did you see yourself in the photo? If you didn't you could have claimed someone else was driving but you couldn't remember who and there is little that the powers-that-be could do about it. The holder of the vehicle does not automatically take responsibility if the driver cannot be determined.

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Did you see yourself in the photo? If you didn't you could have claimed someone else was driving but you couldn't remember who and there is little that the powers-that-be could do about it. The holder of the vehicle does not automatically take responsibility if the driver cannot be determined.

I can’t remember it was 20 years ago, I do remember I had a 6 month period in which to take my 1 month (Germany only) ban so I took it when I spent 2 months in Canada :)

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And there is no (longer) any Google Street View of Germany.

 

Although still out of date large city views! 

 

 

berlin3.png

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And there is no (longer) any Google Street View of Germany.

Seems to work in some Cities.  Leipzig and Frankfurt, But not in other places.

 

John

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Seems to work in some Cities.  Leipzig and Frankfurt, But not in other places.

 

John

 

That's strange.   Here is a cluster of cities Duisburg, Essen, Dortmond, Wuppertal, Dusseldorf, Cologne and Bonn where I have no problems using street view.  

Worth noting that these were taken 10 years ago and, as I pointed out previously, that much out of date.  

 

 

german street views.png

Edited by John_b_45
Added date

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Much of the Street View footage was shot before there was an outcry against Google in Germany and many people requested Google to remove views of their property from the scenes.

However, strangely enough, I saw a Google Street view camera vehicle in the area only a couple of days ago, so it looks as though Google hasn't given up Germany altogether.

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Much of the Street View footage was shot before there was an outcry against Google in Germany and many people requested Google to remove views of their property from the scenes.

However, strangely enough, I saw a Google Street view camera vehicle in the area only a couple of days ago, so it looks as though Google hasn't given up Germany altogether.

I've seen them out and about in Monchengladbach recently too.

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