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Fortune7

Bucc. 2017 water system operation

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I'm trying to understand if our water system is working correctly, or not. We use an Aquaroll outside and have to switch between 'External' and 'Internal' pumps (tanks) as water is used in the 'van. Switching to 'Ext' will fill the internal tank, then it's necessary to switch to 'Int' once full to let the internal pump supply the outlet(s) at best pressure. Is this right, or should the external pump be calibrated / adjusted to fill the internal tank automatically (in which case what should be the switch position)? 

I've been through the Whale IC pump / controller documentation as well as the 'van's Owner's Handbook (Issue1 - see pic), but still confused! I seem to remember the Dealer at handover saying to (after purging and filling the internal tank, etc.) to leave the pump switch in the middle (i. e. 'off) but that doesn't work for us, perhaps because we're not using the supplied direct hose connection, but an Aquaroll. The Dealer also said the system had been calibrated 'at the factory' so I haven't touched it. Pressure and temperature control at (e. g.) shower is good, so I don't want to mess with it if it's a feature, and not a bug!

 

Apologies if this has been covered here before - I searched but nothing found.

 

Cheers, Andy

IMG_9407 (Medium).jpeg

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I don't know the answer but I do have to question why manufacturers fit such complicated systems as others have posed similar queries.

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That looks like the same control panel as my 2015.

Ext pumps from the aquaroll or mains feed to the internal tank and also the taps so it keeps the internal tank full.

Int pumps from the internal tank only.

The middle position pumps from the aquaroll or mains water to the taps so if you don’t want the internal tank filled leave it in the middle.

The IC controls the external pump so if it does not shut off when the taps are closed you need to calibrate.

If the internal pump does not switch off there is a pressure adjustment beside the tank, this sometimes needs adjustment if you are on battery not EHU.

 

Ian

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13 minutes ago, IanV8 said:

Ext pumps from the aquaroll or mains feed to the internal tank and also the taps so it keeps the internal tank full.

Int pumps from the internal tank only.

The middle position pumps from the aquaroll or mains water to the taps so if you don’t want the internal tank filled leave it in the middle.

The IC controls the external pump so if it does not shut off when the taps are closed you need to calibrate.

 

 Thanks, Ian, this is very helpful!

 

So just to be clear - please correct me if needed:

 

1. We mostly use an Aquaroll with float-operated mains water supply (i. e. the Aquaroll stays full), so is there no need to fill the internal tank or use the internal pump? We've found the system pressure from the 'Ext' pump / switch position to be lower than the 'Int' pump/switch, which is why we've been doing the continual switchery.   If the switch is (indeed) left in the middle position maybe this somehow corrects the difference? 

 

2. If I recalibrate the Whale Watermaster IC system using the shower outlet as documented, will this ensure the pressure / flow is as good as possible? As I said earlier, I haven't done this so it might be worthwhile. A concern is that others have said (I think) that hot/cold/mix temperature control at the shower can be upset, and right now it seems fine, albeit supplied from the internal pump. .....

 

Sorry for the need for extra clarification!

 

Cheers, Andy

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4 hours ago, IanV8 said:

That looks like the same control panel as my 2015.

Ext pumps from the aquaroll or mains feed to the internal tank and also the taps so it keeps the internal tank full.

Int pumps from the internal tank only.

The middle position pumps from the aquaroll or mains water to the taps so if you don’t want the internal tank filled leave it in the middle.

The IC controls the external pump so if it does not shut off when the taps are closed you need to calibrate.

If the internal pump does not switch off there is a pressure adjustment beside the tank, this sometimes needs adjustment if you are on battery not EHU.

 

Ian

I thought that if the onboard tank and outsdie barrel were full, if you had the switch to the middle position, it would draw water from the onboard and the barrel giving you the 80litres as per the brochure?

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Hi Ian pretty certain mid position just draws from outside. External will draw  and supply a reasonable pressure from outside if  on board tank full but why would you. These days I fill the on board then switch to mid position and just use the on board when the outside runs out.  

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8 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

I thought that if the onboard tank and outsdie barrel were full, if you had the switch to the middle position, it would draw water from the onboard and the barrel giving you the 80litres as per the brochure?

 

I'm going to have to try this next week when with the 'van - it does seem that's what the instructions are saying, but for me, it's not that clear.  If this is the case for 'continuous' use, then why have a switch/pump for the internal tank? Is it used only if you use the direct 'Water Line' hose and connection supplied with the 'van? I prefer the Aquaroll to not have mains water pressure at all times on internal pipework (flood risk).

 

So if I understand the feedback correctly, the initial process will be (following all empty):

 

1. Set out Aquaroll and connect supply hose to its float valve.   Aquaroll fills up to float level.

2.   Switch pump to 'Ext', filling internal tank. Pump stops when tank full.

3. Switch to middle position for 'normal' operation, i. e. tap draw-off operates external pump which keeps internal tank topped-up and supplies system water pressure. Internal pump not in circuit or required.

 

The way I've been operating is:

1.   and 2. above carried-out. Then switch to 'Int' which will operate internal pump and use/empty internal tank. Then when empty, switch to 'Ext to refill it, then back to 'Int'. and so on. ...

 

Thanks for help on this - is it just me that doesn't 'get it' from the instructions?

 

Cheers, Andy

 

 

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Nearly right:rolleyes: Switching to centre will not keep your on board full. It will just draw off your aqua roll. Leaving it set to ext would keep it full but then it would never empty because the only pump operating is the external one. Some say the internal pump is stronger I personally don't see a great deal of difference. So in your case I would just set to centre as your aqua roll will continually fill. Try your shower using the internal pump and let us know what you think.  

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Thanks, Craig, and to all who have responded. I've a much better understanding of the system, will adopt the following and see how it goes:

 

Keep the switch in the middle position having filled using the 'Ext' position. Then, if the shower needs more 'oomph' switch temporarily to 'Int', and then back to middle for taps.

 

Thanks again,

 

Andy

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Unless I missed something, why do you need to fill the onboard tank if you are on a continuous mains feed to the aqua roll?  (unless your shower works better from the onboard tank)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Steve&Rose said:

Unless I missed something, why do you need to fill the onboard tank if you are on a continuous mains feed to the aqua roll?  (unless your shower works better from the onboard tank)

 

You're right, without a schematic of the water system I mistakenly thought the taps were fed only from the onboard  tank which was (in-turn) fed from the aquaroll. Now it seems the two tanks act in parallel, so the aquaroll can supply the system without the onboard tank being involved.   My perception, however is that water pressure in the shower is better from the onboard tank / pump, but I need to verify this.

 

Andy

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I think what happens is that in the middle position, the onboard is emptied first and then water is drawn into the onboard just enough for the taps still to function?

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1 hour ago, Durbanite said:

I think what happens is that in the middle position, the onboard is emptied first and then water is drawn into the onboard just enough for the taps still to function?

No in the middle the internal is not used, I think if you empty the internal you then get water from outside with the switch on internal.

 

I always travel with the internal full and use that en route and on arrival then fill the aquaroll and top up the internal.

We then use the aquaroll until it runs out and only use the internal if it’s late at night or early morning before refilling the aquaroll. We tend to switch to internal for showers because we know it’s full.

 

Shower pressure is the same on internal or external pumps but external mains is normally lower.

 

Ian 

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I asked Elddis about the 80l continous water claim in their brochure and they told me to read the owners manual?   Unfortunately the owner's manual is nto clea ron the continous water question.   To me using the word "continous" implies that the 80l can be drawn off without human interference?

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If anyone has Issue 1 of the Buccaneer Owners Handbook they should be aware that there is an Issue 2. I found it while seeking similar info. It isn't on the Elddis download page but is here -

https://www. manualslib. com/manual/958146/Elddis-Buccaneer. html#manual

Water is on page 6. 4 or 25 if you use the menu across the top of the webpage.

I have challenged my dealer on the matter and am waiting for an outcome.

 

Jim

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1 hour ago, jampot said:

If anyone has Issue 1 of the Buccaneer Owners Handbook they should be aware that there is an Issue 2. I found it while seeking similar info. It isn't on the Elddis download page but is here -

https://www. manualslib. com/manual/958146/Elddis-Buccaneer. html#manual

Water is on page 6. 4 or 25 if you use the menu across the top of the webpage.

I have challenged my dealer on the matter and am waiting for an outcome.

 

Jim

Thanks, Jim for the link. This 'Issue2' manual does indeed seem to be more appropriate for my model (2017 Bucc. Galera) in terms of the Water system. It refers correctly to an internal/external tank and pump system, and is very helpful. Other parts of the manual are different to my 'van and looking on the back page of this 'Issue2' it's dated for Model Year 2011. My printed manual is MY 2017.

Very strange, then, that the MY2011 water system documentation is more appropriate for the MY2017 'van!

 

Thanks again, Andy

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Andy, you obviously read further than I did- I just assumed it was current 'cos it had the info I needed and the one I got with the van last week didn't!

I just checked the back cover of mine and it does indeed say model year 2018.

Could be embarrassing if the dealer finds the same as you did. ....

 

Still have to wonder why the required information isn't provided in the hand books we have.

 

Jim

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3 hours ago, jampot said:

Still have to wonder why the required information isn't provided in the hand books we have.

Exactly, Jim!

 

Andy

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I emailed Elddis back and said I specifically wanted to know about the 80l continous water supply as continous means no outside interference.   Basically got a reply that they are unsure and will investigate?

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Hi Andy

 

Please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Support Team who will do all they can to assist you.  

 

Tel: 02891 270531 (weekdays) 08452172933 (weekends)

Email: info@whalepumps. com

 

Alternatively, please feel free to private message me your contact details and I will get one of our team to contact you directly.  

 

Best wishes

Hayley 

 

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I have a 2015 Buccaneer Cutter & until today have been unable to get the “80 litres continuous flow”. I have tried every combination possible without any success. The handbook is useless. I have emailed & phoned Elddis & they are just as useless. All they have to do is contact the person who designed the system & ask him/her then answer peoples questions & amend the handbook.

 

Away on a C/L with some friends this week my mate told me he had discovered the way to operate the system purely by accident:-

 

1. Ext position fills the onboard tank & supplies the taps from the aquaroll

2. Int position supplies the taps from the onboard tank

3. The mid position supplies the taps only from the

 

Checking the onboard tank I found there are 2 float switches, one stops the Ext pump when the tank is full & the other stops the Int pump when the onboard tank is empty. 

 

The 80 litres continuous supply is achieved by having both a full aquaroll & onboard tank. Pump switch set to Int & when the low level float switch is operated it stops the Int pump & automatically switches to the Ext pump & aquaroll - hooray it’s continuous. 

 

Armed with this knowledge I checked out my low level float with a meter & discovered that even when it was dropped & resting on the bottom of an empty tank it was still “made” & therefore did not stop the Int pump. The reason was the hole in the tank in which it was fitted was 2 - 3 mm too low preventing the float dropping far enough & the switch “breaking”. Rather than make the hole any larger to lift the float I removed it & cut a chamfer on the bottom to allow it to drop further & thus “break” the circuit. 

 

Hope this helps clarify how it works & may help anyone with similar problems to mine. 

 

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Point 3 should read “from the aquaroll”

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DC01 that is brilliant and explains an issue with have had since day one and our caravan is 18 months old!  Never knew there were two floats. 

I asked the question this morning on the FB Buccaneer Caravans Group.  Would you mind if I copied and pasted this on that forum as it will ben of interest to many owners of Buccaneers as it is an issue.  Thanks.

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yes i found this out via the dealer had stumbled accross this. i found out as the floars where not tightened enough and leaked when i filled the onboard tank. this was on our 2016 cruiser.also the dealer then fitted red clips to all the push fit joints throughout the van to stop them coming loose and leaking.

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27 minutes ago, smino0_1 said:

yes i found this out via the dealer had stumbled across this. i found out as the floats where not tightened enough and leaked when i filled the onboard tank. this was on our 2016 cruiser.also the dealer then fitted red clips to all the push fit joints throughout the van to stop them coming loose and leaking.

As a matter of interest do you have a picture of those red clips?  We are out this weekend probably will pull the float out after checking it as I am sure that is an issue in our caravan as certainly no 80l continuous flow. 

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