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pepsichod

Faulty Front Seats

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10 hours ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

The problem is not that they 'keep collapsing' but that on extended use the foam loses consistency (air) and the area where somebody is seated becomes unsupportive, something that doesn't happen with sprung upholstery but can happen with foam rubber, pressure and warmth. The answer is a stronger central foam in the core of the upholstery but that's complicated and costs more. You do wonder if Hymer/Eriba have got it right offering sprung upholstery as a cost option. Trouble is the extra weight would eat our abysmal UK payloads if the option was available.

I think you got it right as after awhile the mattress in the caravan developed a big dip in it after less than 70 nights away and the same with the seats.   The mattress was replaced but after 30 nights it was just as bad as previous.   Never got around to replacing the seats as we rejected the caravan.

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18 hours ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

The problem is not that they 'keep collapsing' but that on extended use the foam loses consistency (air) and the area where somebody is seated becomes unsupportive, something that doesn't happen with sprung upholstery but can happen with foam rubber, pressure and warmth. The answer is a stronger central foam in the core of the upholstery but that's complicated and costs more. You do wonder if Hymer/Eriba have got it right offering sprung upholstery as a cost option. Trouble is the extra weight would eat our abysmal UK payloads if the option was available.

But if you want comfortable seats you have to do what we did & buy sprung cushions &  move things normally in the van into the tow car. Pain in the 'proverbial' but couldn't stand the initial cushions sliding forward nor the rock hard replacements! Bailey customer service just rubbish but they get away with it cos most of us have better things to do in retirement than keep taking a caravan manufacturer to task. If only the competition was better I'd just dump Bailey in an instance!

Edited by Endeeo
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15 hours ago, Endeeo said:

But if you want comfortable seats you have to do what we did & buy sprung cushions &  move things normally in the van into the tow car. Pain in the 'proverbial' but couldn't stand the initial cushions sliding forward nor the rock hard replacements! Bailey customer service just rubbish but they get away with it cos most of us have better things to do in retirement than keep taking a caravan manufacturer to task. If only the competition was better I'd just dump Bailey in an instance!

We did you buy your sprung cushions and were they custom made for your caravan retaining the original look and shape i. e. just innards changed?  Thanks.

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1 hour ago, Durbanite said:

We did you buy your sprung cushions and were they custom made for your caravan retaining the original look and shape i. e. just innards changed?  Thanks.

We bought 2 base cushions ( sprung "in foam coffin") direct from Bellfields & they pretty well matched exactly the existing smaller cushions & backs. £235 all in. We only use them as single beds for grandchildren mind, otherwise we'd have to carry another cushion to cover the pull out slats but at least we sit comfortably each evening.

I believe they will replace the whole lot for around £650 but others on here might be able to help you more with that

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On 21/01/2018 at 10:55, Endeeo said:

We bought 2 base cushions ( sprung "in foam coffin") direct from Bellfields & they pretty well matched exactly the existing smaller cushions & backs. £235 all in. ..

I'm interested in this for my Cadiz.   Can I ask what you get for your £235?  Is it the existing bases rebuilt, or are they completely new?

Thanks!

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On 19/01/2018 at 22:46, Steamdrivenandy said:

The problem is not that they 'keep collapsing' but that on extended use the foam loses consistency (air) and the area where somebody is seated becomes unsupportive, something that doesn't happen with sprung upholstery but can happen with foam rubber, pressure and warmth. The answer is a stronger central foam in the core of the upholstery but that's complicated and costs more. You do wonder if Hymer/Eriba have got it right offering sprung upholstery as a cost option. Trouble is the extra weight would eat our abysmal UK payloads if the option was available.

Hi SDA,  You are correct in your explanation, and as reason for the defects, experienced by caravan owners, is perfectly valid.   However it is not a get out clause and the defects must be rectified at their expense, so come on everybody get the offending seats back for repair.

Oh, by the way a dealer told my mate that my warrenty is with the upholsterers and he would need to do the sending and running around. Well not in my book as he has a contract with the dealer and it is they who look after the warrenty.   I notice companies such as Currys now advise you that in the case of a defect you need to call the manufacturer's helpline and they spend ages sending software updates. Well, that is the procedure that Currys would like me to follow but after their explanation of the process I simply said, ''Get on with it then, I'll pick it up tomorrow.'',

regards,

Ian.

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You are right Ian, and as I say, the answer is either fitting a core of denser foam or metal springs. Sending the upholstery back will just get you replacements to the same spec.

If enough get sent back then the caravan maker may get the message that they need to up the spec of their seating. If that happens I suspect the weight of new vans will increase slightly, or not decrease as much as they would have and the annual price rise will be higher than it would've been.

This on the principle that there's no such thing as a free lunch.

On the point about dealing with the retailer, rather than the part maker I completely agree that's the way the law is written and generally It's the most accessible and convenient method. However there are a couple of things in favour of the alternative. The first is that rather than deal with a 'know nothing' shop assistant, you can deal with someone who actually knows a product inside out. The second is that the part maker gets direct end user feedback, rather than third party relatively disinterested, half hearted information from many resellers throughout the world. 

I'm not suggesting that's the way we should go, just pointing out the potential problems with the system we have.

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Our upholstery is currently with Leisure Furnishings and we believe it will be filled with a higher density foam, at least we hope so. It was a pleasure to actually deal direct with Leisure Furnishings, once our claim was approved, as getting through to the dealer was a very long-winded affair. I’d much prefer to do this than having to rely on the dealer as the middle man.

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21 hours ago, Tigger said:

I'm interested in this for my Cadiz.   Can I ask what you get for your £235?  Is it the existing bases rebuilt, or are they completely new?

Thanks!

Hi Tigger,

They're completely new in matching fabric. We've kept the old 2nd set of Dreamsleep cushions(rock hard!) in our loft so that when we come to sell/trade in we can just slot them into place & offer the sprung cushions as added option or for sale separately.

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5 hours ago, Glen and Les said:

Our upholstery is currently with Leisure Furnishings and we believe it will be filled with a higher density foam, at least we hope so. It was a pleasure to actually deal direct with Leisure Furnishings, once our claim was approved, as getting through to the dealer was a very long-winded affair. I’d much prefer to do this than having to rely on the dealer as the middle man.

Just had a phone call from the company to say our cushions will be back with us tomorrow.  

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On 16/01/2018 at 20:29, pepsichod said:

Is anybody having problems with their front seats, ours keep collapsing  and we are now on our second set which lasted all of two days before I was sitting on the slats. There must be a more robust seat on offer anybody able to help.

Quick update I have taken up the issue with Bailey and they are saying they are fit for purpose when clearly they are not. Asked to go higher than customer services and the net has gone quiet which is the same as my dealer so frustrating. I have been told I can upgrade for £270 shocking.

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Not reallyshocking. As I posted earlier, Hymer/Eriba have been fitting foam as standard for at least a decade on their Touring range and have a cost option for interior metal sprung seats. Their list price for a full set is £380 and they weigh 15kg more than the foam. UK dealers tend to specify the sprung version automatically and build the cost into their price, along with lots of other non-standard items. That's why any UK Eriba Touring owner shouldn't believe the book MIRO and Payload as they'll already have used some Payload with added options.

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I am in the process of replacing my Pegasus seat cushions as follows

-New sprung 1 piece base cushions

-New sprung 1 piece back cushions (required so we can still make up the bed)

-Corner block/ bolsters like the unicorn 3

-Arm rest end cushions like the unicorn 3

All the above will be made in the fabric and matched  to the original Pegasus design for a princely sum of around  £500 !!!!!!!!!!! It would be cheaper if we didn't want the arm rest and corner block/bolster but after nearly 2 years of seats that are uncomfortable and the time wasted waiting for repairs and returning cushions I gave up any hope of Bailey sorting the issue and decided life's to short to get stressed about them anymore. Wont be rushing to buy a new Bailey again but it seems like a lot of manufacturers are going for the foam lightweight option.

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Our upholstery has just been returned to us today. To be honest they don’t feel any different. A few creases have disappeared in the covering, but the actual filling still feels quite soft. We are away for 4 nights in Feb so will test them out then, but not feeling very hopeful.  

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On ‎26‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 12:55, smit572 said:

New sprung 1 piece back cushions (required so we can still make up the bed)

 for a princely sum of around  £500 !!!!!!!!!!! 

Hi Smit572,

As you know we had the base cushions done but didn't think sprung backs were available! Presumably these are rectangular profile rather than original 'high back' shape.

Are you happy with result (ignoring the cost, of course)? If so, we might go that way ourselves. Like you we will not buy a Bailey again after all the problems & rubbish Customer Service!

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We've taken the plunge and ordered some sprung bases for our Cadiz.

We rarely/never use the front as a bed, so didn't bother with the backs.

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3 hours ago, Tigger said:

We've taken the plunge and ordered some sprung bases for our Cadiz.

We rarely/never use the front as a bed, so didn't bother with the backs.

Will be most interested in your opinion of the result.   Out of curiosity did the manufacturer actually ask your size and whether you wanted a firm, soft, medium etc.   or was it just a one off choice.   One of the most comfortable seats I know of is in a friends Elddis.   Steel sprung bases.   Still going strong after top side of 25 years.

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13 hours ago, Alan Stanley said:

Will be most interested in your opinion of the result.   Out of curiosity did the manufacturer actually ask your size and whether you wanted a firm, soft, medium etc.   or was it just a one off choice.   One of the most comfortable seats I know of is in a friends Elddis.   Steel sprung bases.   Still going strong after top side of 25 years.

I specified the caravan make/model/year.   I know the bases are 1500mm long, but that leaves any error in their court.

I didn't ask about choices of spring - I hop ethe default works well!

I miss the seats I had in my Senator!

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Come on Rooster.  

Strange takes of cycling shoes  apart you were an upholsterer and might have some enlightening comment.  :rolleyes:

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20 hours ago, Tigger said:

We've taken the plunge and ordered some sprung bases for our Cadiz.

We rarely/never use the front as a bed, so didn't bother with the backs.

Are they going to put the sprung filling in your existing seat covers, or will you get completely new coverings as well?

Edited by Glen and Les

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29 minutes ago, Glen and Les said:

Are they going to put the sprung filling in your existing seat covers, or will you get completely new coverings as well?

Completely new bases, covered in the correct Kensington fabric.

Edited by Tigger
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On 29/01/2018 at 10:29, Endeeo said:

Hi Smit572,

As you know we had the base cushions done but didn't think sprung backs were available! Presumably these are rectangular profile rather than original 'high back' shape.

Are you happy with result (ignoring the cost, of course)? If so, we might go that way ourselves. Like you we will not buy a Bailey again after all the problems & rubbish Customer Service!

Endeeo

I haven’t got the new cushions yet as I been sorting out the dimensions with Bellfield and the design as they haven’t supplied / manufactured any with the back seats as yet. In short though yes the backs will be one piece to match length of my existing seats and approx 310mm( think it’s this height as details are at work ) high so that I can make a double bed with them, also saves me having to try and find a place for the seat backs supplied every time I make the bed !!!!

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Waking this conversation up again. I am in a similar position to others here with a Pegasus 4 Genoa with dream sleep seating. The backboard has been replaced twice and I am on my second set of replacement seats. The latest set slide forward as bad as ever, and they are so hard to sit on its very uncomfortable. We only use the front seats as single beds, and they are far too firm.  

Bailey have referred us back to the dealer again, but its just going round in circles, so rather than do this, it seems time to bite the bullet and buy replacement seats. Belfield have quoted £270 for two spring bases, which I am prepared to go with. My question is to the members who have taken this route. Have you found the spring seating comfortable (subjective I know), or is an upgraded foam a better option, by that, I mean a complete seat in foam, not the dream sleep system.  

Hope this all makes sense and am looking forward to being active on this site.

 

Trev

Edited by Trev4

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On 19/01/2018 at 12:29, smit572 said:

Tried the 'Fit for purpose comment' Baileys response still to 'specification' therefore no problem, Baileys customer service needs reviewing as its shocking!!!!!!!!! 

Yeah it's Bailey's specification that's "not fit for purpose". The foams they have specified are simply not up to the job.   We have problems with our front seats "collapsing" after a few hours, not going to do anything about it as we are about to change the van, hopefully the new one will not suffer - well I can daydream can't I.  

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5 hours ago, Trev4 said:

Waking this conversation up again. I am in a similar position to others here with a Pegasus 4 Genoa with dream sleep seating. The backboard has been replaced twice and I am on my second set of replacement seats. The latest set slide forward as bad as ever, and they are so hard to sit on its very uncomfortable. We only use the front seats as single beds, and they are far too firm.  

Bailey have referred us back to the dealer again, but its just going round in circles, so rather than do this, it seems time to bite the bullet and buy replacement seats. Belfield have quoted £270 for two spring bases, which I am prepared to go with. My question is to the members who have taken this route. Have you found the spring seating comfortable (subjective I know), or is an upgraded foam a better option, by that, I mean a complete seat in foam, not the dream sleep system.  

Hope this all makes sense and am looking forward to being active on this site.

 

Trev

 

Just now, daveandjude said:

 

Hi, we had the same problems with our Genoa 4, and now have new sprung seat cushions made by Belfield’s. We did have the inclusion af a knee roll but undecided if it was needed, they are now a big improvement on the originals. To point out we do use them as single beds only.

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