Woodentop Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Anyone else other than me got one of these yet and tried checking the noseweight? When we got the van home from the dealer with the only extras fitted being a battery (25Kg about 1ft behind the axle) and motor mover 30Kg about 1ft in front of the axle) the noseweight was 32Kg. The gas box is N/S/R corner and is designed to take 2x6Kg. How the heck am I supposed to get 80Kg or more on the nose? Quote 2018 Passat B8 Estate 150GT TDi150 towing a 2018 Bailey Unicorn S4 Seville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 It's really hard to satisfy anybody nowadays. Either whinging about high nose weights or low ones - what can a manufacturer do. At least you've got the opportunity to shove the awning and stuff up the front of the van together with other stuff to help rather than having to backload a van with a heavy noseweight. Do you really need two gas cylinders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamdrivenandy Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 As I keep saying, forget about noseweight 'til you've actually loaded the van for a trip, especially a single axle model. Removing one gas cylinder will increase the noseweight to nearly 50kg. Put some stuff in the front lockers and avoid the rear ones as much as possible and you'll easily make 80kg. Put a porch awning, tent pegs and carpet up front and you'll be up to 90kg no problem. 1 Quote I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon but to settle down and write you a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodentop Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just now, Steamdrivenandy said: As I keep saying, forget about noseweight 'til you've actually loaded the van for a trip, especially a single axle model. Removing one gas cylinder will increase the noseweight to nearly 50kg. Put some stuff in the front lockers and avoid the rear ones as much as possible and you'll easily make 80kg. Put a porch awning, tent pegs and carpet up front and you'll be up to 90kg no problem. Thanks for your comment but could I suggest you look at the pictures of a Seville? The gas locker is N/S/R corner and will take two 6Kg cylinders - I only use one. Taking the cylinder out put the noseweight at 44Kg. There are no front (external) lockers or front overheads either. The layout does not permit non-use of rear lockers/cupboards. Note that I said the empty (i. e. MRO+battery+movers) noseweight was 32Kg. The battery is behind the axle, the movers in front by about the same amount so the weight balance will be about 2Kg on the nose. We have loaded the van ic 6Kg gas - it is MTPLM upgraded to 1450Kg; we took it to the weighbridge and it was 1440Kg - and that with the fridge empty! - but with a 3. 9Kg Propane on board the nose is still only 35Kg. Realistically I can't see any way of getting anything like an extra say, 45Kg on the front hence why I asked. We are going away in a few weeks so we will not be taking the awning (wrong time of year) and it would put us way overweight anyway. As a point of interest my son who weighs 76Kg stood inside the van as far forward as possible (gas bottle still out) and even that only put the nose up to 70Kg! So what do I do? Quote 2018 Passat B8 Estate 150GT TDi150 towing a 2018 Bailey Unicorn S4 Seville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovinmad Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I suggest you return it to your dealer as unfit for purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverback Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Woodentop said: Anyone else other than me got one of these yet and tried checking the noseweight? When we got the van home from the dealer with the only extras fitted being a battery (25Kg about 1ft behind the axle) and motor mover 30Kg about 1ft in front of the axle) the noseweight was 32Kg. The gas box is N/S/R corner and is designed to take 2x6Kg. How the heck am I supposed to get 80Kg or more on the nose? You only need a nose weight of 60kg laden to 66kg MTPLM for your caravans weight at 5% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 51 minutes ago, rovinmad said: I suggest you return it to your dealer as unfit for purpose. ?????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamdrivenandy Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 You have two 6ft 3ins seat lockers and at least two decent size roof lockers forward of the axle. Admittedly one seatbox will probably have heater/boiler inside and a few bits of electrickery but there's plenty of room for a whole suite of Beano Annuals to bring the noseweight right. If the MTPLM is upgraded to 1450kg then you have a nominal payload of 245kg or almost double what a standard Seville can load. If you've gone for a big battery that's 25kg or so, a mover could be about 40kg and a couple of 6kg cylinders come out at around 25kg, a total load of 90kg, which should leave you with around 155kg for gin and t-shirts. It's a poor do if some of that 155kg can't be put in the front storage areas. On a two berth van you could get away with a 16kg battery and 28kg mover plus a couple of Calorlites or similar, a total load of nearer 54kg instead of 90kg. Quote I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon but to settle down and write you a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodentop Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Calorlites have been withdrawn. What bothers me about payload is that, if we take off the battery and gas cylinder (which is 14Kg by the way) we end up with a personal payload of around 190Kg, No way have we got that much weight - almost a fifth of a tonne! - in the van so I can only conclude that the rated MRO at 1203Kg must in fact be maybe 100Kg light? Pity I didn't have chance to weigh it before we loaded it up. As I said earlier my 76Kg son stood inside the front of the van and it only increased the nose by 30Kg, so (apart from going considerably over MTPLM) I cannot see any way of getting the nose anywhere even 60Kg let alone 70-75Kg which I would prefer. [Doing a little Applied Maths (as my old maths master used to say "every couple has its moments") with the relative distances of my son and the nose from the axle I would have expected the nose to rise by more like 50Kg so I can only conclude there must be something else wrong.] I do have another theory however on which I will report back tomorrow evening (Sat). Edited January 12, 2018 by Woodentop Quote 2018 Passat B8 Estate 150GT TDi150 towing a 2018 Bailey Unicorn S4 Seville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamdrivenandy Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I can't believe that even Bailey can get the MIRO of a van wrong by 100kg. After all, that would leave a standard non-upgraded Seville with just 23kg of payload before any load at all is added and roughly the MIRO of their 4 berth models. A trip to check the weight has to be first priority. . Quote I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon but to settle down and write you a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverback Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Woodentop said: Calorlites have been withdrawn. What bothers me about payload is that, if we take off the battery and gas cylinder (which is 14Kg by the way) we end up with a personal payload of around 190Kg, No way have we got that much weight - almost a fifth of a tonne! - in the van so I can only conclude that the rated MRO at 1203Kg must in fact be maybe 100Kg light? Pity I didn't have chance to weigh it before we loaded it up. As I said earlier my 76Kg son stood inside the front of the van and it only increased the nose by 30Kg, so (apart from going considerably over MTPLM) I cannot see any way of getting the nose anywhere even 60Kg let alone 70-75Kg which I would prefer. [Doing a little Applied Maths (as my old maths master used to say "every couple has its moments") with the relative distances of my son and the nose from the axle I would have expected the nose to rise by more like 50Kg so I can only conclude there must be something else wrong.] I do have another theory however on which I will report back tomorrow evening (Sat). 70kg is your sweet spot / weight. .. What are you measuring it with and is the ground level with handbrake off ? Edited January 12, 2018 by Silverback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smino0_1 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Not being funny,but so long as im within the tolerance of the governed weight i can tell by just driving approx 2or 3 miles i can more or less tell if it feels within my driving limits. If it feels awfull and like tail endy i will pull over and adjust. Dont have to do this very often as mostly the same items are taken each time for shorter trips and then adjusted for longer heavier trips. you just know when it feels right Quote 65 volvo geartronic se nav, 2016 buccaneer cruiser, 2017 buccaneer commadore, 2018 swift kon-tiki 669 auto, 2015 range rover 3. 0 sdv6 autobiography dynamic auto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, smino0_1 said: Not being funny,but so long as im within the tolerance of the governed weight i can tell by just driving approx 2or 3 miles i can more or less tell if it feels within my driving limits. If it feels awfull and like tail endy i will pull over and adjust. Dont have to do this very often as mostly the same items are taken each time for shorter trips and then adjusted for longer heavier trips. you just know when it feels right Isn't it easier to check it before you go rather than getting several miles down the road and then pulling over to faff about shifting stuff around. Stopping either on the road or a layby isn't really the best place to do it. Just my opinion you understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smino0_1 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 6 hours ago, matelodave said: Isn't it easier to check it before you go rather than getting several miles down the road and then pulling over to faff about shifting stuff around. Stopping either on the road or a layby isn't really the best place to do it. Just my opinion you understand your opinion does count,but sometimes things arent placed exactly in the same place, or if its a bit later in the day we may take food instead of buying when we get there. so not always the same. even if the nose weight is the same. as to get the nose weight right other thing may have to be shifted around to get that right too. But 99% of the time we get it feeling really good to our liking . And no i dont really like to stop on the way. but id rather stop and get it right tho. Dont take long to move a seat etc bit futher forward. What my point was, is when it right you feel that bit more confident with towing it too. Some load theres to 140kg but other may only load it to 120 for there car but still withing the 150kg of the caravans nose weight. Quote 65 volvo geartronic se nav, 2016 buccaneer cruiser, 2017 buccaneer commadore, 2018 swift kon-tiki 669 auto, 2015 range rover 3. 0 sdv6 autobiography dynamic auto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodentop Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 22 hours ago, Silverback said: 70kg is your sweet spot / weight. .. What are you measuring it with and is the ground level with handbrake off ? I am measuring it with a (supposedly) certified Milenco pillar gauge and with a Reich electronic ball weight - and they agree within a kilo. The thought I had last night was to move the caravan onto a different piece of my driveway, chock the wheels, and leave everything else off - brakes, mover, wheel lock - and then check it. It is now reading 48Kg. Since then SWMBO has put a small crate of tinned food at the front of the floor surrounded by two bags of clothes (i. e. not in the wardrobe.) I will check it tomorrow morning but I suspect we will now be over 50Kg on the nose - and I'll try that. It still baffles me how anyone is supposed to put two 6Kg bottles in the back and find enough to put up front to get 70Kg or more on the nose. It just doesn't make sense. Interestingly I asked Bailey what the MIRO noseweight is (our Peg 462 was 67Kg and I think the Unicorn 1 when it came out was something like 83Kg) but all I got was a somewhat curt reply to the effect that they don't quote it and I should load the caravan to give 100Kg on the nose or less if my vehicle/towbar had a lower rating. D'oh! Quote 2018 Passat B8 Estate 150GT TDi150 towing a 2018 Bailey Unicorn S4 Seville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamdrivenandy Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Woodentop said: I am measuring it with a (supposedly) certified Milenco pillar gauge and with a Reich electronic ball weight - and they agree within a kilo. The thought I had last night was to move the caravan onto a different piece of my driveway, chock the wheels, and leave everything else off - brakes, mover, wheel lock - and then check it. It is now reading 48Kg. Since then SWMBO has put a small crate of tinned food at the front of the floor surrounded by two bags of clothes (i. e. not in the wardrobe.) I will check it tomorrow morning but I suspect we will now be over 50Kg on the nose - and I'll try that. It still baffles me how anyone is supposed to put two 6Kg bottles in the back and find enough to put up front to get 70Kg or more on the nose. It just doesn't make sense. Interestingly I asked Bailey what the MIRO noseweight is (our Peg 462 was 67Kg and I think the Unicorn 1 when it came out was something like 83Kg) but all I got was a somewhat curt reply to the effect that they don't quote it and I should load the caravan to give 100Kg on the nose or less if my vehicle/towbar had a lower rating. D'oh! Virtually all manufacturers stopped quoting empty noseweights years ago because they were never right,due to manufacturing tolerances, and because loading the van altered the weight immediately, so there's little point in publishing a figure. Quote I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon but to settle down and write you a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlieboy2608 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I feel the OP pain here! When I watched the reviews I noticed the gas locker on rear corner-after Bailey making such a big thing about loading them over/near the axle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco4 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I'm baffled that Bailey have spent years redesigning their vans to get the balance correct, then with the U4 Seville have moved the gas locker away from the axle. I've not seen in the flesh but going off the floorplan it looks like every heavy component (ex the fridge) is rear of the axle - what were they thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamdrivenandy Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Copying the long established Lunar Stellar layout. Though the Stellar has a front gas locker and lounge benches that are sensibly longer. Quote I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon but to settle down and write you a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a18041967 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 A different S4, but our Valencia's nose weigh was a surprise for different reasons, I didn't check nose weigh before loading. I was concerned and expected that the nose weight would be too light as we were loosing three front lockers and gas cylinders and battery moved over axle, but our nose weigh is almost perfect maybe a little high. We've loaded the caravan with 2 * 10kg gas cylinders, one almost empty, Cadac BBQ under front seat and a heavy tool box that used to be under rear bed in the other front locker. Our nose weigh is now 100kg, we have no clothes or bedding packed but the caravan now has all other items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordred1973 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 hmm, series 1 owners definitely have the opposite issue. last time we checked ours it was 125KG, not good since the car has a max weight of 90KG and worse alko quote the hitch on all of the UK caravans as 100KG. Interestingly, the Australian versions of the Unicorn have a higher noseweight rated hitch. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsfallon Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Woodentop, can I ask how you are getting on with your new Seville? I'm also interested in your weight upgrade, did you get that from the dealer or directly via the factory? Edited January 27, 2018 by mrsfallon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeekenderWanderer Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 WoodenTop I have also recently collected a new Unicorn Seville and agree with you entirely. With it plated at MTPLM: 1322kg it is impossible to get more than 35kg on the towbar without going over weight. This is a complete charade to make the van look lean in the marketing! When we picked the van up, they put my two gas bottles in the locker (one was nearly empty) and you could pick up the front with two fingers, I towed it home with about 10kg on the tow bar. Since then, I have realised that the MRO does not include the battery (not sure how you are supposed to use the van without one), neither does it mention the jack. So if you have movers @ 30kg, Jack 5kg, Battery 25kg, that brings your payload down to around 60 kg. I would have to pile the whole lot on the towbar to get to a recommended towing limit. If they will re-plate it to 1450kg why do they not plate it as that by default, stop wasting customers time, and stop claiming to have a max weight that is untenable. If they don't re-plate it, I shall be asking for a full refund as it is not fit for purpose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamdrivenandy Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Well according to Prima they do sell a weight upgrade pack for the Seville 4, only there's no image of it, and no details of how much additional capacity it provides, plus it looks as if they haven't any stock 'til 22nd April. I very much doubt they'd fit a 1,450kg axle to a 1,326kg MTPLM van. I'd expect 1,350kg or more probably 1,400kg. Thing is, as has been discussed ad nauseum on CT, since the advent of the VIN plate under Type Approval Regulations in 2013, the only legally enforceable MTPLM on a van is the one shown on the VIN plate, usually hidden in the gas locker. Any other MTPLM is at most 'advisory' and at worst illegal as it's creating confusion by putting two MTPLM's on one vehicle. The VIN plate MTPLM is usually the maximum axle weight and therefore you can legally run your van at up to that VIN plate MTPLM without any further expenditure or Bailey paperwork. 1 1 Quote I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon but to settle down and write you a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtrailman Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 If Bailey followed Swift they would publish any available upgrade so owners or potential buyers would easy know what they could upgrade too. A quick check under the caravan to a SA axle will give you it maximum MTPLM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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