Leisure Battery

[newswifty2017]

Evening guys, 

Ok. .......bought our caravan (new ) in July, used it until end of Oct.   We have it in Storage for winter.   As manuals says (or this is how I have read it) we have turned the master switch off (under the bed).  We have a solar panel fitted but just done a check on swift command and its saying the voltage is at 4. 5.   Is that the battery ***** and were we supposed to leave the master switch on for the solar panel to effectively trickle charge over the winter.   The battery is an AGM 110 if this makes any difference?

 

Sorry for the daft questions

[Tandem Man]

No such thing as a daft question,I've asked enough.

You shouldn't need to leave the master switch on.

First of all,has it worked previously ?

Is the Swift Command reading it correctly ?

Is the solar panel fuse inserted fully or has it blown ?

( Can't help with it's location as we don't have a Swift )

Are there any indicator lights on the controller and if so what are they showing  ?

Is the fridge light turned off ( on our Bailey this is not controlled by the master switch ) ?

Is the solar controller set to the correct type of battery ( your handbook should show you the details ).

All connections to controller and battery tight and clean ?

Is the battery a goner ?

Even at this time of year a good solar panel should still keep the battery charged,ours does.

Hope this helps.

Ian

[svimes]

Hello. We have almost the same van as you.

Master switch does not have to be on for the panel to charge. We've never seen a reading that low (but then I don't check much). 

We did once find the battery less full then expected, but something had been left on. We normally turn off the Master now and not had issues since.

[Black Grouse]

1 hour ago, newswifty2017 said:

Evening guys, 

Ok. .......bought our caravan (new ) in July, used it until end of Oct.   We have it in Storage for winter.   As manuals says (or this is how I have read it) we have turned the master switch off (under the bed).  We have a solar panel fitted but just done a check on swift command and its saying the voltage is at 4. 5.   Is that the battery ***** and were we supposed to leave the master switch on for the solar panel to effectively trickle charge over the winter.   The battery is an AGM 110 if this makes any difference?

 

Sorry for the daft questions

As well as finding out why the battery hasn't been charging - you'll need to get the battery out and re-charged with a good smart charger, like the CTEK, that has a reconditioning mode to attempt to save it - but I'd only give it 50:50. If you simply find the fault, fix it and let the caravan circuitry try to recharge it, it's less likely to be successful and could still let you down in future.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Black Grouse

[Les Medes]

I support everything that has been said, one thing that I would do is do not rely on the onboard charger, I would take it out and as BG says use a CTEK charger to fully charge the battery

[newswifty2017]

Thanks for the comments,

Checking on the Swift Command its 1 month exactly after we put the van in to Storage.   The data says that it was constant then it took just under 2 days for the charge to fall to 4. 5v.   I've checked again tonight and the reading is 3. 7v (almost as if there was a surge that's caused it) I'm heading up to the storage this weekend but its when the temperatures really dropped but apart from that can't think of anything that would be cause the sudden drop especially if the master switch was off.   Everything has been working fine up till then.   Will do all the checks from comments.  

Again thanks and does anybody know a good battery co I can buy shares in??

[svimes]

You will get some good advice on batteries on here (e. g. checking whether it's really dead beyond revival) but it is beginning to sound that way. Let's hope not, let's hope the cold weather caused a connector to come partially loose and give you the odd readings so suddenly.

If it is dead, you may well be asked whether it's still under warranty. Was it new with the van or an older purchase?

Edited December 14, 2017 by svimes

[Stevan]

One thing is certain, you cannot begin to investigate what happened on a flat battery! If you can borrow a fully charged and serviceable battery to take with you when you go up, you can start.

After swapping the batteries to bring the old one home to charge, you should check that everything really is turned off and dead, including the isolator switch, the aerial booster, the radio and the fridge controls.

Hopefully you missed something!

[fred]

In my opinion.  You must have had some sort of power draw and or a failure of the solar regulator.   Even with the master switch off then something’s such as the fridge light still works.   This is pure speculation but could it be possible that the voltage drop corresponds to a cold spell and the heating is trying to come on to protect from frost?

What I would do next, is get a spare battery.  Go to the van a without touching anything else at all swap the battery.   That way if something has been left on you should be able to see it hear it.  You may need to adjust the heating temp set point to see it that activates if it the outside temperature has warmed up.  Obviously then you need also to check the solar controller to make sure looks like it is working a multimeter will at least tell you if you are getting power from the panel to the controller and then take it from there.  

Edit 

1 Our solar panel 150W keeps everything topped up in storage, I would of thought a 100W panel would also cope.  

2 As your battery is an AGM, make sure any advice you receive is relevant to those as well as standard flooded batteries.  

Edited December 14, 2017 by fred

[JTQ]

I have real concerns that a CTEK or most chargers will recognise a battery so depressed to 3. 7 volts or lower by the time the OP has got it out? These types of chargers need a datum to decide what they are looking at; here it would be better to use a more rudimentary charger for at least overnight, then use a CTEK to aid recovery.

Even if the solar system is "working" correctly it will be very affected by the conditions seen at the panel. Killers will be things like leaves stuck on it and general grime will significantly degrade the performance. Winter with its very low sun angles throw far more shadows over the panel and again these massively reduce the yield.

The battery being AGM gives it a better chance of recovery but time left at these very depressed voltages is of the essence to have any hope; to save it needs putting it on charge ASAP, but if it has been so depressed for long some loss of "capacity" even if it recovers function is inevitable.

[Black Grouse]

1 hour ago, JTQ said:

I have real concerns that a CTEK or most chargers will recognise a battery so depressed to 3. 7 volts or lower by the time the OP has got it out? These types of chargers need a datum to decide what they are looking at; here it would be better to use a more rudimentary charger for at least overnight, then use a CTEK to aid recovery.

Even if the solar system is "working" correctly it will be very affected by the conditions seen at the panel. Killers will be things like leaves stuck on it and general grime will significantly degrade the performance. Winter with its very low sun angles throw far more shadows over the panel and again these massively reduce the yield.

The battery being AGM gives it a better chance of recovery but time left at these very depressed voltages is of the essence to have any hope; to save it needs putting it on charge ASAP, but if it has been so depressed for long some loss of "capacity" even if it recovers function is inevitable.

The CTEK is better than many in that respect, but even it has limits - any 12v battery that's gone below 9v is 50:50 anyway IMO

[JTQ]

3 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

The CTEK is better than many in that respect, but even it has limits - any 12v battery that's gone below 9v is 50:50 anyway IMO

You are right and provoked me to check my MXS 5 spec which is right down to 2. 0 Volts; so if the OP acts quickly they might get the battery on charge in time for one of those to try and  do something.

https://www. ctek. com/products/vehicle/mxs-5-0

Never ever been anywhere down there to check my CTEKs but recall another early auto charger that thought a 12 volt battery was a 6 volt one.

[CommanderDave]

Battery should not go flat in a couple of months unless it has a drain . Is the alarm on ? Have you turned the fridge off at the fridge as they have a constant feed and not controlled by the master switch and if you leave the door ajar the light will stay on .

I used to leave my battery from Sept to March in winter storage every year and still use the mover to get it out .

Dave

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by CommanderDave

[svimes]

Can the experts above (and I mean that nicely, not sarcastically) comment on the time it took the battery to drain? 

Sounds like the OP has the ability to interrogate this data remotely via Swift Command and reports that the drain took only 2 days.

One of you suggested the heating clicking on which would explain it but seems doubtful the OP would have left it on.

Could it just be an old battery dying, eg something in it failed as the temp dropped?

Or could a loose connection caused by the cold weather explain it?

[fred]

13 minutes ago, svimes said:

Can the experts above (and I mean that nicely, not sarcastically) comment on the time it took the battery to drain? 

Sounds like the OP has the ability to interrogate this data remotely via Swift Command and reports that the drain took only 2 days.

One of you suggested the heating clicking on which would explain it but seems doubtful the OP would have left it on.

Could it just be an old battery dying, eg something in it failed as the temp dropped?

Or could a loose connection caused by the cold weather explain it?

I’m not expert.   My speculation regarding the heating was this if the heating has a frost protection setting it might start the pump.  It was and remains speculation.  It might turn out to be total BS, but something has caused the voltage to fall off a cliff.  

[CommanderDave]

New caravan used up to Oct would mean it has dropped to very low state of charge in 2 months .

Solar panel will not produce much in these condition covered in frost and snow ?

Tracker ?

 

Dave

Edited December 14, 2017 by CommanderDave

[fred]

Just remembered.   Chances are if the voltage has dropped to ~4v then the Solar controller like many smart chargers won’t recognise the fact a battery is inline, so won’t charge.  

[chrisn7]

3 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

Battery should not go flat in a couple of months unless it has a drain . Is the alarm on ? Have you turned the fridge off at the fridge as they have a constant feed and not controlled by the master switch and if you leave the door ajar the light will stay on .

I used to leave my battery from Sept to March in winter storage every year and still use the mover to get it out .

Dave

 

Modern fridges are only powered up either by the car, or when the master switch is on. They also have an on/off switch, which controls both states.

The alarm is unlikely to be relevant, as it has its own internal battery which capable of running the alarm for at least 5-7 months even when not connected to the leisure battery.

Older fridges did have a permanent feed to the fridge for the light which would remain on if the door was left ajar in storage, but this doesn't apply to the OP.

[Black Grouse]

I'm no expert but read a lot - the self-discharge rate for an AGM battery is 2+ % per month, where 100% is down from 12. 8 to 12. 0 volts

To drop to 4. 5V in a montha and a half, as the OP reports, indicates a fault somewhere - that's not natural self-discharge.

[ericmark]

You may see my post where my battery ended up fully discharged, not a clue why, same as you, I have decided not to leave the battery on the caravan, I had to use an old charger to get the battery voltage over 7. 5 volt, under that my Lidi smart charger thinks the battery is 6 volt, once that initial boost was given I left it to the Lidi charger, it took around 4 days to recharge.  

Clearly some thing left on, but the main thing now is to recharge the battery, a charged battery will not freeze, but a discharged battery will, so it needs recharging or it may freeze.

The sulphur on the plates of a discharged battery will go hard over time, and if not recharged it will destroy the battery,  we are told one month is the limit, but in my experience it's not that cut and dried, I have had a battery left flat for just 3 weeks fail, and I have also recharged a battery left flat for a year and it has worked to some extent although not back to prime condition.

However what I have found is it takes a long time for a battery which has been left discharged to recover. We are looking at weeks, so once something has gone wrong you have no option, remove the battery and take it home to be recharged. The Ctek or Lidi chargers have a big advantage with the low output, they seem to charge misused batteries far better than the big chargers, and the Lidi one shows voltage and stage so easy at a glance to see if fully recharged. The larger charger can mislead one into thinking fully recharged when really it is just slow to accept the charge.  

 

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