Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
SamD

Alde Radiator Fan

Recommended Posts

I suspect most installations of Alde Heating are a bit on the slow side to get up to temperature from cold.   I don't like leaving it on when I'm out and remote is hugely expensive.

Anyone tried the rad fans?  12v supply should be easy enough for us to DIY but would it need some sort of shroud to 'force' the warm air behind the seats?

Edited by SamD
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, SamD said:

I suspect most installations of Alde Heating are a bit on the slow side to get up to temperature from cold.   I don't like leaving it on when I'm out and remote is hugely expensive.

Anyone tried the rad fans?  12v supply should be easy enough for us to DIY but would it need some sort of shroud to 'force' the warm air behind the seats?

So modifying to make it like a blown air system?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't try it on a 'van with a Warranty running.

geoff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The one shown in the Alde catalogue looks like 2 computer fans bit like the fan fitted to assist fridges.  

The fan package is mounted under a convector where extra heat and increased air ow are needed.
For maximum heating power, the fan package should be mounted on a tightly packed convector. Two fan speeds.

How much difference it makes in heat up speed I don’t know never use ours  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

So modifying to make it like a blown air system?

Similar I suppose.   Think most vans have, at least, one rad behind and under each of the 2 front benches.   They work on convection with the hot air rising, only some of which goes up the void behind the seat backs.   Thoughts were to use one of the Alde fans (Fred's post above) but add a small sheet of aluminium or similar.   I might be barking but, in theory should speed up the heating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SamD said:

Similar I suppose.   Think most vans have, at least, one rad behind and under each of the 2 front benches.   They work on convection with the hot air rising, only some of which goes up the void behind the seat backs.   Thoughts were to use one of the Alde fans (Fred's post above) but add a small sheet of aluminium or similar.   I might be barking but, in theory should speed up the heating.

Underneath the bunks it can get quite warm so probably a good idea to mount a small computer type fan to assist in heating up the caravan quicker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

Underneath the bunks it can get quite warm so probably a good idea to mount a small computer type fan to assist in heating up the caravan quicker.

Yes - the Alde 'bespoke' versions though are on a mount to fit the underside of the fins - presume small grub screws onto the end fins.   Twin fans with 2 speeds.   Looking for a bit of lift to reduce the noseweight!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SamD said:

I suspect most installations of Alde Heating are a bit on the slow side to get up to temperature from cold.   I don't like leaving it on when I'm out and remote is hugely expensive.

Anyone tried the rad fans?  12v supply should be easy enough for us to DIY but would it need some sort of shroud to 'force' the warm air behind the seats?

If you add some 12v computer fans to blow air into each bedbox, it should flow out over the Alde convector fins and up the back of the seats.

One of my winter projects is to add 2x 140mm computer fans to blow air into the front bed boxes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t know if the ones fitted to the Hymer is original as it is only one speed and it blows horizontally not vertically.  We don’t have an issue with heat up speeds though.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, fred said:

I don’t know if the ones fitted to the Hymer is original as it is only one speed and it blows horizontally not vertically.  We don’t have an issue with heat up speeds though.  

Not sure about your second sentence.   Does that mean heat up speed is good with your fans or do you not use them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don’t use it.   We have no good reason, apart from not being on ehu very often.  But the speed of warm up it was a concern for me when we got the van, but it seems good.  On Thursday the temperature of the van went from an indicated 6C to arround 20C in less than an hour, and that’s warming the fabric as well as the air, that was on gas only.  As a put in a previous post Alde commented how fast the van heated up when they tested it, following the fluid change.   It seems to me that it is easy to quote the output of the Alde boiler, but no one including me can tell you the amount of convectors installed to distribute that heat.   If you are under connected, I think I have invented a word:D, then fan forcing air through the fins must help the distribution.  But so also well making sure that the air can circulate arround the convectors.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, fred said:

Don’t use it.   We have no good reason, apart from not being on ehu very often.  But the speed of warm up it was a concern for me when we got the van, but it seems good.  On Thursday the temperature of the van went from an indicated 6C to arround 20C in less than an hour, and that’s warming the fabric as well as the air, that was on gas only.  As a put in a previous post Alde commented how fast the van heated up when they tested it, following the fluid change.   It seems to me that it is easy to quote the output of the Alde boiler, but no one including me can tell you the amount of convectors installed to distribute that heat.   If you are under connected, I think I have invented a word:D, then fan forcing air through the fins must help the distribution.  But so also well making sure that the air can circulate arround the convectors.  

Useful post - thanks.   Much quicker than mine but one of my 'problems' in speed of warm up is my Alde underfloor heating which I like but it, of course, 'robs' heat in the initial phases and takes a fair time to warm the cold floor.   I think another issue for me is that the space behind the seats appears much narrower than I had on previous vans and wonder if that is an issue - not sure of the physics involved here!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've noticed on several new 'vans that there is either none, or very little, entry point for air to find it's way under the bunks. How the heating is supposed to work efficiently is beyond me. Air has to get in for heat to come out!

On my Bailey Unicorn mk1 there are several vent strips scattered around, but these seem to be very lacking on other makes & models. Even so I find that opening the access doors below the bunks speeds-up heat distribution. So maybe the problem is more to do with lack of entry vents than the need for fan assist?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One way or another, the air needs to be able to circulate so that there is a flow over the convector.  Otherwise you are going to end up with a hot air effectively trapped.  I seem to remember that the convectors in the U1 were plonked on the floor of the bed boxes.  They looked like candidates to get damaged and covered with whatever you store under the bed.   

 

SamD My mate had a VM with underfloor heating, but I don’t  think the carpets were removable.  So the carpets insulated the van from the underfloor heating, which didn’t strike me as ideal.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, micktheshed said:

I've noticed on several new 'vans that there is either none, or very little, entry point for air to find it's way under the bunks. How the heating is supposed to work efficiently is beyond me. Air has to get in for heat to come out!

On my Bailey Unicorn mk1 there are several vent strips scattered around, but these seem to be very lacking on other makes & models. Even so I find that opening the access doors below the bunks speeds-up heat distribution. So maybe the problem is more to do with lack of entry vents than the need for fan assist?

I had significant modifications done on my 2013 Lunar to overcome some of that deficiency - designed by me, approved by Alde, done by the dealer, paid for by Lunar - a double convector needs a 40mm gap under bed-boxes, or equivalent.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, fred said:

SamD My mate had a VM with underfloor heating, but I don’t  think the carpets were removable.  So the carpets insulated the van from the underfloor heating, which didn’t strike me as ideal.  

Mine are removable but I did some googling earlier and found "The Carpet Foundation carried out some research with the Underfloor Heating Manufacturers Association (UHMA) and proved conclusively that most carpet can be used over underfloor heating without impairing the performance of the system. This showed that a carpet/underlay with a combined thermal resistance of less than 2. 5 togs allows underfloor systems to operate efficiently."

The very best underlay designed specifically to insulate, only has a tog rating of 3. 5 and the conclusion seems to be that carpet will increase the time to warm up, holds the heat for longer and only has minor detriment.   I have tried with and without and agree with their conclusions.  

However, it helps explain why I started this thread - my warm up rate is not good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having used Alde now for 5 yrs in our Swift 530 we will never have a van without it, however the installation is rubbish and when I said so on the ST forum I was quickly shot down by Swift. They told me that the installation had been approved by Alde, but Alde recommend 5kw of radiators for a 5m van and ours has 1. 8kw so the 8kw boiler can only output about 2kw when including the towel rail and pipes.

In the Alde installation details they state that there must be fixed ventilation in bed boxes and our van has none.

Having said that once the van is up to temp. it is much better than blown air.

Edited by solarpower
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest we were perfectly happy with the Truma system but it did have the advantage of being the 5kW system with all the ducting inside.   So I wouldn’t rule out a non Alde system.  But one effectively running at heat up would be no use to me.  

I think that Alde rate a single convector as 440W per meter and the double version 600 and something Watts.  There is quite a lot of information and advice about design and installation on the Alde website might be interesting to compare your installation.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have done it, see my post.

Blow Air System For Alde Heating.

I used 50mm 12v computer fans & grills. One fan fitted in the end bathroom, pulling hot air out of the wood effect covering for the heat emitter. Our caravan has a side dinette, another fan fitted there to assist hot air flow. Fans, grills, fuse holders, fuses, & cabling all purchased from Amazon.

I spoke to an Alde Teck person at the caravan show of my intended mod and he agreed that it could work!

It does work and I am happy with the result.

Edited by David P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, SamD said:

Mine are removable but I did some googling earlier and found "The Carpet Foundation carried out some research with the Underfloor Heating Manufacturers Association (UHMA) and proved conclusively that most carpet can be used over underfloor heating without impairing the performance of the system. This showed that a carpet/underlay with a combined thermal resistance of less than 2. 5 togs allows underfloor systems to operate efficiently."

The very best underlay designed specifically to insulate, only has a tog rating of 3. 5 and the conclusion seems to be that carpet will increase the time to warm up, holds the heat for longer and only has minor detriment.   I have tried with and without and agree with their conclusions.  

However, it helps explain why I started this thread - my warm up rate is not good.

I don't think the carpet should be a concern however the layer between the underfloor heating and the carpet could be if it is subjected to heating as won't  it dry out causing other issues.   I do not know the answer.   Having said that we love the underfloor heating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having a quick thought whilst reading regarding fans.

Our header tank pump is 12 volts so in order to have the fans turn on and off when the heating does a feed either direct or switched via a relay from the pump circuit would be advantageous.

When arriving on site in the cold we break out the emergency fan heater, then once the vans upto temprature turn on Alde. OK if on ehu.

 

As far as underfloor heating, I would have thought any body that represents carpets manufacturers will conclude in their favour. We have underfloor heating in the conservatory and the instructions did specify reduced heat output if the floor was  carpet or rug over laminate.

Edited by Simple Life

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Simple Life said:

Having a quick thought whilst reading regarding fans.

Our header tank pump is 12 volts so in order to have the fans turn on and off when the heating does a feed either direct or switched via a relay from the pump circuit would be advantageous.

When arriving on site in the cold we break out the emergency fan heater, then once the vans upto temprature turn on Alde. OK if on ehu.

 

As far as underfloor heating, I would have thought any body that represents carpets manufacturers will conclude in their favour. We have underfloor heating in the conservatory and the instructions did specify reduced heat output if the floor was  carpet or rug over laminate.

I do the same. I only find the need for a boost in extreme cold and the fan heater works well.  It is also a good back up if there is a heating failure.

I am a little confused as to whether the OP has underfloor or radiator Alde heating. Perhaps it’s a combination.  In my opinion. If it’s underfloor, computer fans will make no difference.  If rads, I think they may make a small difference.  But for speed of heat up the fan heater will by far be the best.  But don’t try to keep an eye on the total wattage used.

 

John

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, JCloughie said:

I do the same. I only find the need for a boost in extreme cold and the fan heater works well.  It is also a good back up if there is a heating failure.

I am a little confused as to whether the OP has underfloor or radiator Alde heating. Perhaps it’s a combination.  In my opinion. If it’s underfloor, computer fans will make no difference.  If rads, I think they may make a small difference.  But for speed of heat up the fan heater will by far be the best.  But don’t try to keep an eye on the total wattage used.

 

John

I find the Alde on 2kw and fan heater on 1kw is the quickest way to warm the caravan up from stone cold - just reduce the Alde down to 1kw when the kettle or microwave go on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Simple Life said:

Having a quick thought whilst reading regarding fans.

Our header tank pump is 12 volts so in order to have the fans turn on and off when the heating does a feed either direct or switched via a relay from the pump circuit would be advantageous.

When arriving on site in the cold we break out the emergency fan heater, then once the vans upto temprature turn on Alde. OK if on ehu.

 

As far as underfloor heating, I would have thought any body that represents carpets manufacturers will conclude in their favour. We have underfloor heating in the conservatory and the instructions did specify reduced heat output if the floor was  carpet or rug over laminate.

The research included the underfloor heating body as well.

1 hour ago, JCloughie said:

I do the same. I only find the need for a boost in extreme cold and the fan heater works well.  It is also a good back up if there is a heating failure.

I am a little confused as to whether the OP has underfloor or radiator Alde heating. Perhaps it’s a combination.  In my opinion. If it’s underfloor, computer fans will make no difference.  If rads, I think they may make a small difference.  But for speed of heat up the fan heater will by far be the best.  But don’t try to keep an eye on the total wattage used.

 

John

John,

I have Alde 'normal' heating (rads, grills etc) AND Alde underfloor heating which consists of a run of pipes down the centre length of the van and these pipes plus the spreader fins (about a couple of feet plus wide) are embedded in the floor.   This means that it really is the best of both worlds once warmed up but the underfloor pipes etc rob the rads in the early stages and, I suspect, my warm-up stage is a fair bit longer than most other people's.

I'm still looking at options but like the idea of the Alde fans at the base of the rads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, SamD said:

The research included the underfloor heating body as well.

John,

I have Alde 'normal' heating (rads, grills etc) AND Alde underfloor heating which consists of a run of pipes down the centre length of the van and these pipes plus the spreader fins (about a couple of feet plus wide) are embedded in the floor.   This means that it really is the best of both worlds once warmed up but the underfloor pipes etc rob the rads in the early stages and, I suspect, my warm-up stage is a fair bit longer than most other people's.

I'm still looking at options but like the idea of the Alde fans at the base of the rads.

Try running Gas and electric together for 30 mins - the 8kw combined output will soon warm all the coolant up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  



×
×
  • Create New...