Towing with a Tesla across the Alps

[Paul_B]

I would think that a priority will be to design a vehicle for aero dynamical efficiency, but if you need a bigger 4x4 as jetA1 says Tesla have an option.

[Black Grouse]

4 hours ago, jetA1 said:

Indeed they do, the Tesla S and X are built on the same platform, not just similar but exactly the same, I'm sure that in time we'll see the development of further body styles.  

In time, tomorrow, futures - but what's on offer right now from EVs - Tesla S and Tesla X are far too expensive for most people - Tesla 3 is more affordable but only a few hundred built so far and Musk can't get the production rate up like he promised - Bolt/Ampera-E can't be built in RHD - are any other EVs presently on sale suitable for caravanners?

VW Group have their MEB platform to replace MQB which will provide a basis for EVs covering the full range from Polo to Passat hatchback/saloon/estate/coupe and their CUV/SUV - across VW, SEAT, Skoda and part of Audi - but not just yet.

[Black Grouse]

1 hour ago, Paul_B said:

I would think that a priority will be to design a vehicle for aero dynamical efficiency, but if you need a bigger 4x4 as jetA1 says Tesla have an option.

Except the Tesla X is an expensive SUV coupe - where's the affordable SUV estate - an alternative to Ford Kuga for instance?

[Stevan]

30 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

Except the Tesla X is an expensive SUV coupe - where's the affordable SUV estate - an alternative to Ford Kuga for instance?

"Affordable" is not a word within the vocabulary of electric cars unless paired with massive subsidies or long term offsetting of fuel cost savings against capital, and even that only applies because of the rates of tax on petrol and diesel  for road use.

[Black Grouse]

1 minute ago, Stevan said:

"Affordable" is not a word within the vocabulary of electric cars unless paired with massive subsidies or long term offsetting of fuel cost savings against capital, and even that only applies because of the rates of tax on petrol and diesel  for road use.

i agree - the EV promoters seem to emphasise the whole life cost savings - but very few people buy a car for the whole of it's life - an EV needs to be cheaper over it's first 3 years / 36,000 miles and only when that's achieved will their sales ramp up.

[gravon42]

Our government would do the same as diesels. As soon as everyone is driving an electric vehicle, BANG THE PRICE OF ELECTRICITY UP!!

[Black Grouse]

6 minutes ago, gravon42 said:

Our government would do the same as diesels. As soon as everyone is driving an electric vehicle, BANG THE PRICE OF ELECTRICITY UP!!

"everyone is driving an electric vehicle" won't happen IMO - by the time that becomes a possibility, autonomous cars will have taken over - no-one will own a car, just send an Uber-type request from your smartphone and the car will arrive to take you to your destination - caravanning as we know it will be dead, just get the autonomous taxi to take you to your chosen glamping pod.

Thankfully, I'll be 6' under by then!

[Woodie106]

The big car manufacturers - VW & some of the Japanese for example - are spending millions on the development of their EV platforms at the moment. It will take time to make the change over as it's taken us over 100 years to get where we are with the 'conventional' car as we know it today, but we have the advantage now of a pretty decent starting place. What the government announced a few months ago was that they wanted to move away from internal combustion engined ONLY vehicles, not a ban on the engine itself, but a forward plan of eventually getting rid of it. We are at a very early stage yet. If they can make trucks, then they can certainly make suv's if & when mass demand wants it. The truck tesla have launched would seem to me to suit the 'logistics' industry here as it will do what time is allowed by a tachograph & can be charged in the down time the driver must have.  

As I said it's very early doors, but get used to it as it will become the norm & we will be seen as the dinosaurs.  

Edited November 19, 2017 by Woodie106

[ChrisUK]

22 hours ago, Black Grouse said:

I can't edit my post now but it does have a glaring error - 26,000 amps at 230 volts ISN'T HT spark plug voltage - but it's still a very high current.

Even welding cable would get no where near to passing that current.   I think it is the wrong solution to a difficult problem, with politicians glossing over the practicalities.  

[stevew1]

What do the battery packs for these vehicles cost ? , obviously they won’t last for ever & if they need replacing after X thousand charges is it going to be a viable proposition to replace them.

[Black Grouse]

17 minutes ago, stevew1 said:

What do the battery packs for these vehicles cost ? , obviously they won’t last for ever & if they need replacing after X thousand charges is it going to be a viable proposition to replace them.

It's too early to tell - Lexus put a 8-year warranty on their hybrid batteries, with few replaced in or out of warranty - if the life of 2nd/3rd generation EVs improves, as it's likely to, then it'll last the effective life of the car - there's no reason to expect EVs to extend the 14-year old average scrappage age as the non- powertrain components will be the same as at present

[FrankBullet]

4 hours ago, Stevan said:

"Affordable" is not a word within the vocabulary of electric cars unless paired with massive subsidies or long term offsetting of fuel cost savings against capital, and even that only applies because of the rates of tax on petrol and diesel  for road use.

Toyota lost money on every mk1 Prius, exactly the same comments were made but it was a long term investment to the business to learn and continually improve, being the masters of ‘Lean’. Now they make a fortune out of the technology.

Innovation isn’t always the easy option.

[Black Grouse]

2 minutes ago, FrankBullet said:

Toyota lost money on every mk1 Prius, exactly the same comments were made but it was a long term investment to the business to learn and continually improve, being the masters of ‘Lean’. Now they make a fortune out of the technology.

Innovation isn’t always the easy option.

Prius hybrid sales in the UK would struggle if the BIK tax wasn't artificially low - it's a popular choice among company drivers but it doesn't deliver any real fuel savings.

[Stevan]

1 hour ago, FrankBullet said:

Toyota lost money on every mk1 Prius, exactly the same comments were made but it was a long term investment to the business to learn and continually improve, being the masters of ‘Lean’. Now they make a fortune out of the technology.

Innovation isn’t always the easy option.

Long term gamble more like, which has paid off so far, but will the success continue?

[FrankBullet]

1 hour ago, Black Grouse said:

Prius hybrid sales in the UK would struggle if the BIK tax wasn't artificially low - it's a popular choice among company drivers but it doesn't deliver any real fuel savings.

The UK is a sideshow to global sales for the Prius.

That UK company car drivers chose them due to the CO2 ratings based on an artificial cycle performance makes no difference to that.

[FrankBullet]

6 minutes ago, Stevan said:

Long term gamble more like, which has paid off so far, but will the success continue?

Dunno, but without innovation we would all be wondering what was outside the cave.

[Woodie106]

Don't understand all the negativity on here. Electric vehicles aren't the norm yet as they have a journey to make, but they will make it & with all the major manufacturers investing heavily, solutions will be found.

Infrastructure may take longer as that has to come from central government which moves slightly slower than continental drift, but it will come.  

Battery technology has moved on a pace - remember those mobile phone batteries that were the size of a small suitcase compared to the small slither that now sits in the back of your mobile? 

[Black Grouse]

15 minutes ago, Woodie106 said:

Don't understand all the negativity on here. Electric vehicles aren't the norm yet as they have a journey to make, but they will make it & with all the major manufacturers investing heavily, solutions will be found.

Infrastructure may take longer as that has to come from central government which moves slightly slower than continental drift, but it will come.  

Battery technology has moved on a pace - remember those mobile phone batteries that were the size of a small suitcase compared to the small slither that now sits in the back of your mobile? 

How did we ever live without mobiles?

Back in those pre-historic days we even used to go caravanning!

This is the future - if you can afford it https://www. theguardian. com/technology/2017/nov/17/tesla-roadster-electric-supercar-elon-musk-fast

Edited November 19, 2017 by Black Grouse

[Stevan]

53 minutes ago, Woodie106 said:

Don't understand all the negativity on here. Electric vehicles aren't the norm yet as they have a journey to make, but they will make it & with all the major manufacturers investing heavily, solutions will be found.

Infrastructure may take longer as that has to come from central government which moves slightly slower than continental drift, but it will come.  

Battery technology has moved on a pace - remember those mobile phone batteries that were the size of a small suitcase compared to the small slither that now sits in the back of your mobile? 

Where can I buy a pair of your rose tinted spectacles? On second thoughts I think I will stick with the real world!

[Woodie106]

32 minutes ago, Stevan said:

Where can I buy a pair of your rose tinted spectacles? On second thoughts I think I will stick with the real world!

Be a dinasaur. They said central heating would never catch on. ...........

Electric vehicles will happen whether you agree with it or not.

[Black Grouse]

6 minutes ago, Woodie106 said:

Be a dinasaur. They said central heating would never catch on. ...........

Electric vehicles will happen whether you agree with it or not.

Just like railway electrification schemes - the UK's been at it for 150 years but big parts of the network are still diesel- hauled.

I had to go into Birmingham on Friday and was pleased to travel on a diesel Cross-Country HST 125 Class 43 set - all introduced in the late '70s and just as quiet, comfortable, fast and reliable now as they were then - a design icon that's long been acknowledged as the best ever trains in the UK.

What the UK needs is cheap, environmentally clean, fast public transport in cities and towns - that will get rid of much of the city pollution issues.

[Stevan]

1 hour ago, Woodie106 said:

Be a dinasaur. They said central heating would never catch on. ...........

Electric vehicles will happen whether you agree with it or not.

We could spend all evening  comparing lists of predicted technology which either did, or did not, catch on. At the moment, widespread use of electric cars has several major problems with no solutions in sight (well rehearsed in other threads), who knows when technological breakthroughs will solve all of them, but breakthroughs will definitely be needed.  

[xtrailman]

I'm really looking forward to electric cars.

You really can't get a simpler way of moving a car, reliability will be fabulous, the only problem I foresee is the access to charging stations, due to the time required to recharge, very large areas will have to be available.

Consider for a minute the long queues often seen a petrol stations, cars that are in and out in 5 minuets, not 20.

[FrankBullet]

1 hour ago, Stevan said:

At the moment, widespread use of electric cars has several major problems with no solutions in sight (well rehearsed in other threads), who knows when technological breakthroughs will solve all of them, but breakthroughs will definitely be needed.  

Probably need to widen your reading material;

http://www. pocket-lint. com/news/130380-future-batteries-coming-soon-charge-in-seconds-last-months-and-power-over-the-air

just an example of what is out there, it’s not only cars driving the technology - storage, charge and discharge matters in a myriad of installations

[Black Grouse]

2 minutes ago, FrankBullet said:

Probably need to widen your reading material;

http://www. pocket-lint. com/news/130380-future-batteries-coming-soon-charge-in-seconds-last-months-and-power-over-the-air

just an example of what is out there, it’s not only cars driving the technology - storage, charge and discharge matters in a myriad of installations

So all an EV needs is a couple of the new phone batteries?

I look forward to the full explanation of why Ohm's Law is wrong.