REMINDER - ELECTRIC CABLE

[Johnaldo]

CMC don't actually ban joined cables …  they just don't recommend them …

"The use of a second cable is not recommended, but if it is used it must be fitted with the same BS EN 60309-2 standard plug and connector. The connection between the two cables should be raised off the ground by the use of a propriety joining cover" (from Data Sheet 30).

John

[Stevan]

1 hour ago, KNARF said:

500W applied to a 2. 5 mm Cu cable will generate less than 1/3 watt in heat output per metre,even with the cable fully wound with all 25M on it the total heat generated would be less than 10Watts heat output.

It would have to run for a long time to heat to a state where it would melt the insulation if ever and that isn't taking account of any heat that would dissipate .

That#s why the cable linked to will safely operate at 740W fully wound indefinitely.

knarf

That's if it is genuine 2. 5mm cable in good condition!  Cheap 1. 5mm cable in poor condition is a different matter!

[Guest]

6 hours ago, ivan leslie said:

But why would anyone even take the risk?  All to save a couple of minutes unwinding the reel - am I the only one who doesn't  understand ??

I totally agree with you, don’t risk damage to the cable and the drum but I don’t agree with comments that it’s going to set the caravan on fire.  

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Stevan said:

That's if it is genuine 2. 5mm cable in good condition!  Cheap 1. 5mm cable in poor condition is a different matter!

The spec of the linked cable is only 1. 25mm and states 740w fully wound.

[Griff]

Just do it, or undo it.

[PR1]

7 hours ago, shipbroker said:

Cmc doesn't allow external gas bottles any more. ..

Geoff

Well clearly the message has not got through to Black Shaw moor then. One large bottle stood by the draw bar of a tourer, with the gas pipe going into the front locker.

That was three weeks ago!

[Guest]

There are always those, to whom the rules do not apply

[sureflow]

I think there are simply lots of people who do not know the dangers of keeping cable on a drum with large currents passing through. There are no doubt those who think  it will not happen to me. Maybe this safety issue that is more relevant in colder months (with more power being consumed) should be broadcast in magazines and at sites. You cannot do much more.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, sureflow said:

I think there are simply lots of people who do not know the dangers of keeping cable on a drum with large currents passing through. There are no doubt those who think  it will not happen to me. Maybe this safety issue that is more relevant in colder months (with more power being consumed) should be broadcast in magazines and at sites. You cannot do much more.

Many people dont understand the danger and starting a post off with "Just a quick reminder, which will more than likely save your lives." in my opinion destroys any credible message in there. It is highly unlikely that anyone's life will have been lost due to this practice or indeed any fire caused.

It would have had much more value if the post had been along the lines of "Please be aware now that were heading into the colder parts of the year that to avoid damage to your hookup lead please ensure they're fully unwound if kept on a drum to avoid potential overheating. The risks are higher at this time of year due to the heavier current demand of heating etc." 

 

AJ

[Paul_B]

Both of the clubs recommend fully uncoiling as does the fire service, the fire service goes further by showing the consciences of not heading the advice in their online museum , but what do they know

[WispMan]

This thread does illustrate the advantage of this forum and the information to be gained by being a member. I would like to think that we are all safer and wiser from knowledge gained from CT. I know I am.

[sureflow]

4 minutes ago, WispMan said:

This thread does illustrate the advantage of this forum and the information to be gained by being a member. I would like to think that we are all safer and wiser from knowledge gained from CT. I know I am.

I think I have learned more from this forum than any other sources. I still pick-up gems that I wasnt aware off, the problem is there are lots of people who dont visit forums and might not be computer savvy. I also think insurance companies could reinforce safety issues ; and this topic is a good example.

[KNARF]

PVC insulated cables are flame retardant,the risk of fire is minimal,the risk of melting the cable is highly likely if sufficient current is passed continuously  for a length of time,the picture of the damaged cable reel clearly shows that the cable melted from the inside but the outer coils show no damage caused by a fire.

knarf

[KNARF]

9 hours ago, Johnaldo said:

CMC don't actually ban joined cables …  they just don't recommend them …

"The use of a second cable is not recommended, but if it is used it must be fitted with the same BS EN 60309-2 standard plug and connector. The connection between the two cables should be raised off the ground by the use of a propriety joining cover" (from Data Sheet 30).

John

Data sheet 30 is from the caravan and camping club not the CMC,

While they don't prohibit the use of joined cables it clearly contravenes  BS 7671 which states that the cable should be one continuous length.

knarf

[Johnaldo]

20 minutes ago, KNARF said:

Data sheet 30 is from the caravan and camping club not the CMC

knarf

Oops.   But if one of the big two clubs have looked into it to produce information for it's members, and come to the conclusion that it's ok, then that's fine by me.

John

[thebriars]

Quite amazed by the negativity expressed in this topic, can't happen, won't happen etc.

It was a good reminder, and the issue some are forgetting is the woeful understanding of any sort of electrics or basic science common not only among the caravanning community but the wider public. To be sure it is safe to leave a reel coiled depends on many factors, the wire thickness, the number of strands, the insulation material, the closeness of the winding, the outside temperature, the current flowing, the time that current is flowing, the flow of air round the coil, etc. ,  etc. Life's too short to bother with the complex calculations as to whether its safe or not in any situation.   GET INTO THE HABIT OF ALWAYS FULLY UNWINDING THE COIL.

[thebriars]

3 hours ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

It would have had much more value if the post had been along the lines of "Please be aware now that were heading into the colder parts of the year that to avoid damage to your hookup lead please ensure they're fully unwound if kept on a drum to avoid potential overheating. The risks are higher at this time of year due to the heavier current demand of heating etc."

I disagree with this. The risks are no higher than someone in a van in the middle of a hot summer in Spain with the air-con going full belt, and the kettle and hot water both on.

[KNARF]

2 hours ago, Johnaldo said:

Oops.   But if one of the big two clubs have looked into it to produce information for it's members, and come to the conclusion that it's ok, then that's fine by me.

John

A camping  club decide it is OK but the Team of highly qualified electrical engineers who formulate BS 7671 disagree,I know who I would listen to.

knarf

[Durbanite]

21 hours ago, matelodave said:

for the clever ones who don't see the point because it's never happened to them

 

I am sorry but the picture is totally meaningless as probably no one on this forum knows what was connected to the cable.   For example was it just a kettle or a 5kw 3 bar electric heater etc?  For all we know someone may have placed the reel on a hot stove?

Just to add for good practice we always unravel the cable and have done so even before I took up caravanning.

[Johnaldo]

39 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

I am sorry but the picture is totally meaningless as probably no one on this forum knows what was connected to the cable.   For example was it just a kettle or a 5kw 3 bar electric heater etc?  For all we know someone may have placed the reel on a hot stove?

I think I first posted these pics on here at least 5 years ago - I'd found them on the net somewhere.   Someone then informed me that they had nothing to do with caravanning, and I think they attached an explanation, but I can't remember now what it was.

John

[joanie]

a neighbours cable resembled the photo shown here, he was in his garage using power tools.    The CC don't allow connections as I witnessed last summer when a chaps cable wouldn't reach, but they allowed him to go onto the grass as he was pitched near the road.    A few years ago I did venture to tell a couple of men, at different times, about their cable not being unwound and they looked at me as if I had insulted their Grandma.    Another thing I notice is when folk connect to the bollard before the caravan or they just disconnect the cable from the motor home  when they are going out and leave it lying there.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, joanie said:

a neighbours cable resembled the photo shown here, he was in his garage using power tools.    The CC don't allow connections as I witnessed last summer when a chaps cable wouldn't reach, but they allowed him to go onto the grass as he was pitched near the road.    A few years ago I did venture to tell a couple of men, at different times, about their cable not being unwound and they looked at me as if I had insulted their Grandma.    Another thing I notice is when folk connect to the bollard before the caravan or they just disconnect the cable from the motor home  when they are going out and leave it lying there.  

Some motorhomers were pitched next to me and went out leaving the cable on the ground. Quite a heavy rain storm ensued, the end end of the cable still plugged into the bollard. I mentioned it to the site warden, he said he'd told them about it several times now it could stay, trip the bollard and he wouldn't be resetting it until the next day. Sure enough they came back, the bollard had tripped, they couldn't reach the warden and complained bitterly the next day.

It potentially was quite dangerous and a pretty daft thing to do.

AJ

[Guest]

4 hours ago, thebriars said:

I disagree with this. The risks are no higher than someone in a van in the middle of a hot summer in Spain with the air-con going full belt, and the kettle and hot water both on.

Well actually no, the risks are higher in your scenario because the ambient temperature woulkd be higher and thus the cooling of the cable not as good.

[hp100425ev]

On 06/11/2017 at 16:34, Black Grouse said:

At home - it's ok until you decide to test the Alde on 3kw and forget to uncoil the cable!

I keep meaning to buy another 25m EHU cable, cut it into two to give 10m and 15m, fit new plug/socket, then I can choose on site or at home which one to use - and with a torpedo connector use them to lengthen the 25m one.

I have a lead separated into 15m and 10m lengths. The 10m is used at home. On most sites, the 15m lead is adequate.

On a CMC site a couple of weeks ago, I needed almost a full 25m, and joined the 10m and 15m lengths together using a waterproof purpose made 'bullet' thing to house the connections.

A few hours afterwards, the Warden was passing and told me I must remove it all as joined cables are no longer allowed on Club sites. "The join is in a waterproof connecter" said I; "makes no difference said he", no joined cables allowed at all.

Fortunately I had a spare 25m length with me. (The reason I used the two lengths joined was that they are arctic cable).

Must say though it was all in good humour, because the Warden knew us as we are regular visitorrs to that site.

[gmc15]

1 hour ago, hp100425ev said:

I have a lead separated into 15m and 10m lengths. The 10m is used at home. On most sites, the 15m lead is adequate.

On a CMC site a couple of weeks ago, I needed almost a full 25m, and joined the 10m and 15m lengths together using a waterproof purpose made 'bullet' thing to house the connections.

A few hours afterwards, the Warden was passing and told me I must remove it all as joined cables are no longer allowed on Club sites. "The join is in a waterproof connecter" said I; "makes no difference said he", no joined cables allowed at all.

Fortunately I had a spare 25m length with me. (The reason I used the two lengths joined was that they are arctic cable).

Must say though it was all in good humour, because the Warden knew us as we are regular visitorrs to that site.

I also have a lead separated into 10m and a 15m lengths so I can use the best one for the plot I am on. I joined the two together a couple of years ago on a CC site and was told by the warden that I was not allowed to do that. I now carry a 25m cable as well to cover all situations