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3 hours ago, Towtug said:

Ive dealt with the approvals for a number of contemporary SUVs and LCVs and there has never been any physical differences with the chassis or tub, . .....

I remember reading a post, probably on here, maybe a year ago, from someone who had worked on an SUV production line who confirmed that the chassis for the Aussie market used heavier duty crossmembers, identical in design but thicker steel.

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10 minutes ago, Stevan said:

I remember reading a post, probably on here, maybe a year ago, from someone who had worked on an SUV production line who confirmed that the chassis for the Aussie market used heavier duty crossmembers, identical in design but thicker steel.

From an engineering point of view, higher strength steel (ie more expensive) panels can achieve the same thing, with no dimensional changes - I've no idea about specific models though.

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20 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

From an engineering point of view, higher strength steel (ie more expensive) panels can achieve the same thing, with no dimensional changes - I've no idea about specific models though.

Could well have been, like I said, it was from memory, the key thing that stuck in my mind was that he claimed that they appeared, without detailed examination, to be identical.

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That may be possible but not something I have come across. I'e just been handling the approval of a major manufacturers South African produced vehicles . I have vehicles with effectively the same manufacturing codes but those destined for the EU, Russia etc have lower vertical loads. The tubs and body references are all the same the only other approval differences related to sales teritory cover emissions,  and tyre noise etc.

This has also been my experience for other UK and EU based manufacturers.

I asked the question of one manufacturer and was told the EWTA/ECE  limits the load by regulation so vehicles covered by this get an artificially low limit. Where the vehicle isn' covered by this limit, US  , Australia, China etc the same vehicles get a higher limit.

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9 hours ago, Towtug said:

That may be possible but not something I have come across. I'e just been handling the approval of a major manufacturers South African produced vehicles . I have vehicles with effectively the same manufacturing codes but those destined for the EU, Russia etc have lower vertical loads. The tubs and body references are all the same the only other approval differences related to sales teritory cover emissions,  and tyre noise etc.

This has also been my experience for other UK and EU based manufacturers.

I asked the question of one manufacturer and was told the EWTA/ECE  limits the load by regulation so vehicles covered by this get an artificially low limit. Where the vehicle isn' covered by this limit, US  , Australia, China etc the same vehicles get a higher limit.

Within the EU, a large SUV with 3,500 kg towing limit has to have a noseweight limit not less than 4% of the towing limit, ie 140 kg - sounds crazy to prevent car makers using a higher limit if the structure is suitable ?

The "not less than 4% of towing limit" applies to all conventional trailers in the EU.

Edited by Black Grouse

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On 24/10/2017 at 23:37, Omega54 said:

 the car used to tow this beast a Mitsubishi, can't remember the exact model but it's not available in the U. K. Kerbweight 1850 kgs.  Manufacturers towing limit 3500 kgs!

 

Is it a Montero? A Shogun in the UK or a Pajero (like mine) here in Germany? If it is the GVW is 3030 Kg and off the top of my head I think the kerbweight is 2350 Kg. Legally it can tow 3500 Kg giving a GTW of 6530 Kg

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22 hours ago, Borussia 1900 said:

Is it a Montero? A Shogun in the UK or a Pajero (like mine) here in Germany? If it is the GVW is 3030 Kg and off the top of my head I think the kerbweight is 2350 Kg. Legally it can tow 3500 Kg giving a GTW of 6530 Kg

Back home now, I think it was a smaller one. However I think the Auzzies go more on manufacturers figures than here. So for example we had a VW Tiguan Escape a few years ago and I think the maximum we could tow was 2400kgs the kerbweight of the car was about 1600kgs. Down under we could have happily pulled the max. subject I guess to the max trainweight (which I dont know) but in the UK we towed to 1600kgs.

Some of the 'Utes' (utility vehicles - usually double  cab pick ups) pull huge caravans well over 2500kgs. They are usually twin axle although I have seen a tripe axle, with massive payloads. A few other interesting observations, pop ups are very common, most caravans have the spare wheel or wheels fastened to the rear wall of the van, fixed roll out sun shades are on almost all caravans, inboard water and waste tanks are very common and obviously essential for free camping. I also love the use of drop down sections on the front and rear of some caravans (think trailer tent) these give huge beds at either end of the caravan. On the more standard caravans front bed and rear lounge is the most common design. I think this is because most vans do not have front windows. Personally I love this layout and always thought that putting the bed under the sloping part of the roof seemed to be the most sensible option. Generally it would mean putting the caravan into a UK pitch forwards but I dont think that would be a problem.

I found it very interesting. Maybe one day we will do the 'big loop' around Australia.  

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Oh its very common for caravanners of a certain age to go on extended tours 4 - 6 months. Esp if they live in the colder South. They are known as 'Grey nomads' and have their own web page http://www. thegreynomads. com. au/

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1 hour ago, Omega54 said:

Oh its very common for caravanners of a certain age to go on extended tours 4 - 6 months. Esp if they live in the colder South. They are known as 'Grey nomads' and have their own web page http://www. thegreynomads. com. au/

I'd love to go touring downunder, a mate of mine left the British Army after 22 years full service and joined the Aussie Army (Lots of HM Forces do that), he's invited us down but Mrs Borussia doesn't/won't fly (that's why we've got a caravan).

Our caravan has fixed beds at the front in the sloping bit with no window, much better than the 'Bay Window' set up British caravans have (IMO) and not a problem going in 'nose first' on UK sites. Having windows at the front is surely a recipe for leaks.

2015 3. 2 Auto Mitsubishi Pajero tugging a 2016 Tabbert Pucinni 2. 5e

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Absolutely, not only that but with the lounge area at the rear you get full head height! No front window would not be a problem as most vans do not have through vision anyway.

Touring down under looks fantastic! There are loads for 'free' areas and many reasonably priced sites  have a bathroom on each pitch! Brilliant idea. Queensland is a caravanners paradise, fantastic coast, great weather, although when we were there we had a 4 hour storm hail etc never seen so much water in such a short time, many cars on the motorway stopped due to the lack of visibility. But 4 hours later normality was resumed with 32 degrees and lovely sunshine. If you can persuade her it would be well worth it. If you fancy checking out the dark side there are loads of motorhomes for hire. Otherwise Europe is fine - oh and not so many animals trying to kill you!

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On 7. 11. 2017 at 19:54, Stevan said:

I remember reading a post, probably on here, maybe a year ago, from someone who had worked on an SUV production line who confirmed that the chassis for the Aussie market used heavier duty crossmembers, identical in design but thicker steel.

I can't speak for SUV's because we didn't build any for the Aussie market, but our other models that were exported there did have additional reinforcements.

I don't know how the Australians establish their towload limits but from memory they don't suffer from summer holiday traffic jams on mountain passes with lots of stop/start driving which we sometimes encounter in the Alps, for example, and which place greater demands on the engine cooling system than towing at relatively constant speed in the relatively level outback, albeit at higher ambient temperatures. That may be a reason for their higher limits.

Outside the EU each market is at liberty to set their own towload limits without necessarily getting prior approval from the leading design source.

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Conversely, Aussies expect to take their 3+tonne caravans off-highway in a hotter climate than Europe in some challenging terrain.

For on-highway caravanning they'll buy European caravans but they won't get far off-highway.

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6 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

Conversely, Aussies expect to take their 3+tonne caravans off-highway in a hotter climate than Europe in some challenging terrain.

For on-highway caravanning they'll buy European caravans but they won't get far off-highway.

I would imagine that wherever doubt exists and to cover their product liability obligations, the manufacturers have an appropriate clause in their warranty conditions excluding persistent off-road use, leaving it up to the owner to take responsibility in case of material failure under such conditions.

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We would be classified as grey nomads. We have just returned home from a 7 month trip up north, covering 30,000 k's. We travelled with 4 other couples from the very east most point (Byron Bay in NSW) to the very west most point in WA (Split point). The leader of the trip chose every dirt road imaginable. It took 3 months. We then all went our own ways once we got to Split point.

 I peruse this forum with the idea of going over to the UK and tryng to rent a caravan/tg combination like we have here. I prefer that to the motorhome option, but it seems that mh option is more readily available.

Down here, there is a mass nomad migration from the south to the north about April/May. It the reverses around August/ September as the north heats up

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On 12/11/2017 at 07:47, ddcman said:

We would be classified as grey nomads. We have just returned home from a 7 month trip up north, covering 30,000 k's. We travelled with 4 other couples from the very east most point (Byron Bay in NSW) to the very west most point in WA (Split point). The leader of the trip chose every dirt road imaginable. It took 3 months. We then all went our own ways once we got to Split point.

 I peruse this forum with the idea of going over to the UK and tryng to rent a caravan/tg combination like we have here. I prefer that to the motorhome option, but it seems that mh option is more readily available.

Down here, there is a mass nomad migration from the south to the north about April/May. It the reverses around August/ September as the north heats up

Fantastic trip, one day we might be joining you. Queensland is fabulous caravanning country its just a pity that so much of the wild life is either trying to eat you or kill you! Love the country and love the Aussie folks cant wait till our next trip down under.

As far as touring in Europe, caravans are available as are tow cars. We recently were given a Ssan yong Musso ute when our car was in dock and we explained that we needed a towcar for our holidays so you should have no problem. I think you will be surprised by the distances over here. ........ it will be worth a trip.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 25/10/2017 at 08:47, tom_1989 said:

I would imagine the larger caravans have the electric brake systems which are a lot better at pulling an outfit into line if you get into a wobble. Unfortunately they are not legal over here otherwise i think we would be seeing larger caravans heavier vans.  

I dont think the towcar has anything to do with it as plenty of people tow 3500kg in the form of plant trailers or enclosed race trailers with no issues. Caravans have the 85-100% recommendation as they are more susceptible to side winds etc and also the weight is more evenly spread along the length of the chassis meaning you get ta higher possibility of pendulum effect in a snake and if this does happen a heavier car has more chance of keeping control of the caravan. However how often does a caravan actually snake??

Personally i am towing at about 115% weight ratio and have (touch wood) have no issues but saying that i am used to towing a lot heavier trailers up to 3500kg with 4x4s so maybe this experience helps.

I find this hard to believe sometime. When have you ever seen someone from a car auction load up a transport trailer,check the nose weight. If he buys a smart car and puts it at the front(all the weight would be forward of the trailer axles) there would be more nose weight than if he bought a big estate car and put it forward as some of the weight would be over the axles. also have your seen some of the weights on them trailer alone. And worst of all trailers being towed with large round bales of straw,piled high. Seen 1 the other day with 3 down each side and 2 on top total 8 large round bales? prob weigh 500kg each. ...incredible.

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