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Hi I have a Hymer Nova 570 for which I want to provide a mains water connection. I would prefer to go the direct mains connection route but am a bit bothered by the comments I have seen regarding the consequences of a failure of the reducing valve.

 

Simple question, is this really a genuine issue or are people just airing their concerns. Has anyone actual experience of this happening. I do appreciate that people have concerns over this but I'm looking for actual experience, if any, of this being a problem.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Ian

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When we arrived at our long stay campsite in Costa Watsit a couple of years ago we realised that some dork had left the Aquaroll at home. The container in my pic was purchased from the nearest Ferete

Hopefully here are the pics promised of my current water container with valve installed.

Heres one I made earlier. This one held about 5L. I gave this one to a relative and made another which holds about 8L They are small enough to live in the front gas locker.

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I think a lot of us have no experience but worry about going out for the day and returning to a continuous flood in the van.

So we connect mains to the Aquaroll and draw off that. And then if we have an on board failure we still get a flood from a continuous supply from the Aquaroll.

Except we can turn the water off when we are away - if we remember.

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Graham

 

Unless otherwise stated all posts are my personal opinion 

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If you go out for the day just turn the tap off, that way if the reducer does fail you will not come back to a wet carpet etc. .

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If you go out for the day just turn the tap off, that way if the reducer does fail you will not come back to a wet carpet etc. .

 

Ok and a good idea but we'll not 50+ posts now :lol:

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Paul B

. .......Mondeo Estate & Elddis Avanté 505 (Tobago)

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Remember a reducer only lessens the flow rate so any failure will produce a smaller flood.

 

It doesn't reduce the water pressure so if you think that mains water pressure is a risk to the components then that will is still there.

 

A connected Aqua roll negates mains water pressure inside the van.

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Remember a reducer only lessens the flow rate so any failure will produce a smaller flood.

 

It doesn't reduce the water pressure so if you think that mains water pressure is a risk to the components then that will is still there.

 

A connected Aqua roll negates mains water pressure inside the van.

It's a pressure-reducer, not a flow-reducer - it's there because some sites have very high mains pressure.

 

If you get a failure while you're out for the day the flood will be comprehensive - little consolation that the water will find it's way out of the gas drop-holes!

Edited by Black Grouse

2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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Remember a reducer only lessens the flow rate so any failure will produce a smaller flood.

 

It doesn't reduce the water pressure so if you think that mains water pressure is a risk to the components then that will is still there.

 

A connected Aqua roll negates mains water pressure inside the van.

 

Wrong.

 

The mains water connector does have a pressure reducer built in to bring the pressure down to a max 1. 5bar.

 

I have attended quite a few instances where the mains connection has failed and the caravans in question were very flooded to say the least.

Imagine water pouring out of all the gas drop holes, out of the door and soaking up through the furniture (which is mainly MDF and the subsequent swelling and blowing of the wood.).

 

For the safety of your van, use the mains to aquaroll method, and turn your pump off when leaving the van for any length of time.

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As BG says 'some sites have very high mains pressure'; when I connect our mains hose up (direct) to the caravan I'm very careful when turning on the mains tap to do it slowly and just enough until the hose fills and expands, then open it just a fraction more. Never had a problem this way, but I do agree with turning the supply off when away from the van!

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You can adjust the tap as slowly as you wish but within a few seconds the system will reflect the pressure at the tap.

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My Nova S620 (when I get it!) has a city water connection which has a solenoid valve connected via a small plug and socket in the city water housing. The way I understand it is that the solenoid only turns on when water is being drawn. From a previous discussion on the forum it seems that the taps have micro switches which initiate the solenoid valve. If this is right, and I won't know until collection date in September, then I guess for a flood to spontaneously occur a tap would need to turn on, triggering the micro switch and water overflow a basin or shower, or the solenoid valve to fail an a leak to start.

So, assuming my assessment of the system to be right there are too many things that need to go wrong before flooding can start and the risk is extremely small.

UK vans on the other hand don't appear to use this method relying on constant but pressure regulated water supply. A burst pipe or joint on this basis could be messy! Having said all this I have used the truma mains water supply extensively and never had a problem.

John

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Now that would work nicely.

 

I'm not convinced mains connection kits contain a true pressure reducing device. .. Just flow reduction

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We bought one for our caravan and had the problem of low pressure from some site connections. We gave up with it as you couldn't have a decent shower. At least with the aquaroll method we use now the site water pressure doesn't matter as it's delivered by the pump, plus there's no flood risk unless you forget to turn your pump off.

Frazer

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Remember a reducer only lessens the flow rate so any failure will produce a smaller flood.

It doesn't reduce the water pressure so if you think that mains water pressure is a risk to the components then that will is still there.

A connected Aqua roll negates mains water pressure inside the van.

Sorry that's wrong. The pressure control valve controls pressure. That's why it's called a pressure control valve. They are designed to fail safe too, so if they fail they close. The op asked for experience of actual failures.

Ern

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Wrong.

 

The mains water connector does have a pressure reducer built in to bring the pressure down to a max 1. 5bar.

 

I have attended quite a few instances where the mains connection has failed and the caravans in question were very flooded to say the least.

Imagine water pouring out of all the gas drop holes, out of the door and soaking up through the furniture (which is mainly MDF and the subsequent swelling and blowing of the wood.).

 

For the safety of your van, use the mains to aquaroll method, and turn your pump off when leaving the van for any length of time.

That's very interesting. How many failures of prv's did you attend? We're they all valve failures?

Ern

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That's very interesting. How many failures of prv's did you attend? We're they all valve failures?

Doesn't really matter how many Brecon attended, he has answered the OP's question and at the same time imparted some professional advice.

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Doesn't really matter how many Brecon attended, he has answered the OP's question and at the same time imparted some professional advice.

I do not understand why there should be an intervention by "Admin" on this perfectly reasonable thread. There are people on this forum asking for facts and I am extremely interested in the subject. Of coarse it matters how many were attended. The whole point of this thread is to establish facts.

Ern

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My Nova S620 (when I get it!) has a city water connection which has a solenoid valve connected via a small plug and socket in the city water housing. The way I understand it is that the solenoid only turns on when water is being drawn. From a previous discussion on the forum it seems that the taps have micro switches which initiate the solenoid valve. If this is right, and I won't know until collection date in September, then I guess for a flood to spontaneously occur a tap would need to turn on, triggering the micro switch and water overflow a basin or shower, or the solenoid valve to fail an a leak to start.

So, assuming my assessment of the system to be right there are too many things that need to go wrong before flooding can start and the risk is extremely small.

UK vans on the other hand don't appear to use this method relying on constant but pressure regulated water supply. A burst pipe or joint on this basis could be messy! Having said all this I have used the truma mains water supply extensively and never had a problem.

 

Wrong, you only need a single basic failure; the solenoid valve to minutely leak and then the van's system will see whatever pressure the city supply is provided at.

I am not confident the plastic pipes and connectors could be relied on to withstand some of the pressure you could meet.

Nor am I confident with the coupling uncoupling, storage and UV exposure of your supply hose, plus the installation and taps in campsites that a minute bit of grot will never get itself across the solenoid's valve seat.

 

I had to design system's in much higher capital value products than your Nova S, and these were designed never to accept such risks, relief valves, or riser tubes were always included to protect from seepage across solenoids and pressure reducers. I see no evidence of that in any caravan market product I have seen, nor can such valves themselves ever be designed fail safe, only protected from failure.

The risk; I think the probability high enough to be seriously worried, the consequential damage enough I could not accept it with the value of my Nova S.

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Wrong, you only need a single basic failure; the solenoid valve to minutely leak and then the van's system will see whatever pressure the city supply is provided at.

I am not confident the plastic pipes and connectors could be relied on to withstand some of the pressure you could meet.

Nor am I confident with the coupling uncoupling, storage and UV exposure of your supply hose, plus the installation and taps in campsites that a minute bit of grot will never get itself across the solenoid's valve seat.

 

I had to design system's in much higher capital value products than your Nova S, and these were designed never to accept such risks, relief valves, or riser tubes were always included to protect from seepage across solenoids and pressure reducers. I see no evidence of that in any caravan market product I have seen, nor can such valves themselves ever be designed fail safe, only protected from failure.

The risk; I think the probability high enough to be seriously worried, the consequential damage enough I could not accept it with the value of my Nova S.

The solenoid valve does not regulate pressure being only an on/off valve and is on the outside of the van so any external leakage from this is of no immediate interest. Assuming the solenoid valve has failed to some degree by not totally closing then it's fair to assume that water can flow into the caravan but, for it to do this another device inside the caravan must fail. A solenoid failure with everything ok in the van will not produce a leak. Likewise, an internal device failure with a healthy solenoid will not produce a leak.

Obviously, in the situation where an internal device or fitting had failed as soon as a tap was opened the valve would release water causing a flood. However, unless I'm wrong, again, the thrust of this debate is centred round such an event occurring when absent from the caravan and sustained damage occurring until noticed. Since you need to turn a tap on for the process to start you'd notice it pretty quick.

John

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Wrong, you only need a single basic failure; the solenoid valve to minutely leak and then the van's system will see whatever pressure the city supply is provided at.

I am not confident the plastic pipes and connectors could be relied on to withstand some of the pressure you could meet.

Nor am I confident with the coupling uncoupling, storage and UV exposure of your supply hose, plus the installation and taps in campsites that a minute bit of grot will never get itself across the solenoid's valve seat.

 

I had to design system's in much higher capital value products than your Nova S, and these were designed never to accept such risks, relief valves, or riser tubes were always included to protect from seepage across solenoids and pressure reducers. I see no evidence of that in any caravan market product I have seen, nor can such valves themselves ever be designed fail safe, only protected from failure.

The risk; I think the probability high enough to be seriously worried, the consequential damage enough I could not accept it with the value of my Nova S.

There is also the situation that if for example a tap was just opened to provide a trickle of water, the solenoid would open but the flow insufficient to keep the pressure down so the caravan would still be subjected to full site pressure.

The solenoid valve does not regulate pressure being only an on/off valve and is on the outside of the van so any external leakage from this is of no immediate interest. Assuming the solenoid valve has failed to some degree by not totally closing then it's fair to assume that water can flow into the caravan but, for it to do this another device inside the caravan must fail. A solenoid failure with everything ok in the van will not produce a leak. Likewise, an internal device failure with a healthy solenoid will not produce a leak.

Obviously, in the situation where an internal device or fitting had failed as soon as a tap was opened the valve would release water causing a flood. However, unless I'm wrong, again, the thrust of this debate is centred round such an event occurring when absent from the caravan and sustained damage occurring until noticed. Since you need to turn a tap on for the process to start you'd notice it pretty quick.

Solenoid valves are unlikely to fail and leak water externally, they are however highly likely if a fault develops to leak between input and output and therefore subject the caravan water system to site pressure. It doesn't have to be an aquarol on the outside, a simple 1 gallon container can be adapted to provide a storage tank for a pump to supply water to the caravan and thus protect the caravan from high pressure water.
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There is also the situation that if for example a tap was just opened to provide a trickle of water, the solenoid would open but the flow insufficient to keep the pressure down so the caravan would still be subjected to full site pressure. Solenoid valves are unlikely to fail and leak water externally, they are however highly likely if a fault develops to leak between input and output and therefore subject the caravan water system to site pressure. It doesn't have to be an aquarol on the outside, a simple 1 gallon container can be adapted to provide a storage tank for a pump to supply water to the caravan and thus protect the caravan from high pressure water.

See below for the description of the Reich city water connection as used in Nova vans. You will notice that the solenoid is plugged into a built in regulator so valve failure will not subject the van to site pressure unless the regulator fails as well.

 

The tap water regulator COLORADO is an outdoor tap for direct supply of the water system of your vehicle. Tanks or canisters are no longer needed with the use of a check valve before the tank. The integrated regulator with check valve is suitable for input pressure of up to 12 bar and reduces it to an output pressure of 0. 7 or 1. 4 bar, depending on the version. The closing pressure is 1. 1 or 2 bar. The tap water regulator COLORADO is housed by a UV-resistant ABS which is closed with a lid when not in use. The hose connection on the input side is established using a conventional hose coupling. The tap water regulator COLORADO PLUS has the crucial advantage in terms of safety: removable magnetic valve separates the water system of the caravan or motorhome from the water network as long as no water is used. With a permanent connection to the public water network, there is a risk of serious water damages since large amounts of water, for example due to burst pipes, can flood the vehicle. The magnetic valve of the tap water regulator COLORADO PLUS only opens the flow if the fittings are open while it also removable from the basic unit in order to store it in case of frost or non-use.

John

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One question regarding direct connection: Is the risk of flooding removed if you turn the mains tap off when you leave the caravan?

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One question regarding direct connection: Is the risk of flooding removed if you turn the mains tap off when you leave the caravan?

One question regarding direct connection: Is the risk of flooding removed if you turn the mains tap off when you leave the caravan?

. ..sorry, didn't mean to repeat myself.

Yes - and yes!

2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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One question regarding direct connection: Is the risk of flooding removed if you turn the mains tap off when you leave the caravan?

One question regarding direct connection: Is the risk of flooding removed if you turn the mains tap off when you leave the caravan?

. ..sorry, didn't mean to repeat myself.

 

No, it is not "removed", it is "reduced" in that the risk is removed during the period that the tap is closed off. Once the tap is turned on the risk is there again.

Edited by JTQ
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My Elddis came with a reducer, it did fail and I got a flood, but fortunately I was in the van so was able to stop it quickly. If I have mains available, I always use the connection via the aquaroll and a ball valve.

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Chris in Warwickshire, Elddis Odyssey 482 (2008), Mitsubishi Outlander diesel, 2017

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My Elddis came with a reducer, it did fail and I got a flood, but fortunately I was in the van so was able to stop it quickly. If I have mains available, I always use the connection via the aquaroll and a ball valve.

 

You are the first person I have heard of with 1st hand experience of this. Could you please explain what make of reducer; what failed and what the 'flood' was?

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