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Caravan Valuation


Steamdrivenandy
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The other day I had to pop into Leisure Sales at Sandbach for some bits and pieces. Whilst I was there I did a quick inspection tour of their used van lot.

 

I then went inside and asked the sales person for a valuation on my Rimini. After a few clarifying questions she said immediately they'd offer £9,300. She laughed because she'd valued an identical van the day before and remembered the price.

 

I pointed out that they had a Peggy 2 Verona of the same age on their forecourt without mover with a screen sticker price of £13,499. As the Rimini and Verona are almost identical, except for one having a double bed and the other two singles, I expressed my surprise that they'd be aiming for a gross margin of £4,200 when £2,000 is the norm. Now I realise that they might have to drop a bit on the sticker price but she was adamant that £9,300 was what they'd base any deal on.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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Would that be the same, I wonder, If you were buying a £20k caravan?

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They will always quote your PX as low as possible, probably bottom book. But once they see you are serious about buying and you start negotiating, and by the time you had nailed their feet to the perch that £4200 will look more like £2000 - £2500 dependent on how eager they are to sell that particular caravan.

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Leisure Sales is my current dealer. When I PXd my previous 7 year old Swift I had three quotes. All three dealers gave the same value to take in but LS was £1,800 cheaper on the final deal. They are 40 miles away and I the one I preferred having looked a their set up and spoken with their service guys prior to getting a quote.

 

I recently applied to 3 dealers for a quote to change my 5yr old Clubman ES for a new one as I can afford to change and have now done around 650 nights in present one. All three dealers made the same offer for PX. One was nearly £1,00 dearer on the change however.

 

Sadly having sat in the new model we will not be having one. There were a few details such as wardrobe layout, huge sun roof, panoramic window, sink etc that I was not keen on but which I could accept. Lunar have though improved the making up of the double bed by having pull out sections under the seats. We normally use our front seating as two singles. Under 3 mins to make up and the same to put away, including fitting covers over seat cushions. The problem was that I am 5' 6'' and OH a little less. When we sat back on these seats our feet did not reach the floor as the seats appear to have been raised 2'' when altering the bed make up.

Alan

 

2005 Nissan X-trail 4WD diesel and Swift Charisma 540 2012 Lunar Clubman ES  2018 Lunar Clubman ES

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I think most salesmen would sell their own children to make a profit. I don't think they are all born that way but it is a job where lies and untruths and general slimeyness get you to the top.

2015 3. 2 Auto Mitsubishi Pajero tugging a 2016 Tabbert Pucinni 2. 5e

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"all gave same p/x price"

All reading from same book then.

Regards, David
Peugeot 308 GT Premium, 1.5 diesel 2021

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. ...they'd offer £9,300.

 

I pointed out that they had a Peggy 2 Verona of the same age on their forecourt without mover with a screen sticker price of £13,499.

 

I expressed my surprise that they'd be aiming for a gross margin of £4,200 when £2,000 is the norm. Now I realise that they might have to drop a bit on the sticker price but she was adamant that £9,300 was what they'd base any deal on.

Don't forget VAT will be included on the sticker price. So £2699 of that would be VAT leaving £1499 as margin.

 

We found we got a better price from the websites like WeBuyAnyCaravan, drop them all a message and see who comes back with a better price. Saved us a few thousand when we sold

Edited by cma
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Don't forget VAT will be included on the sticker price. So £2699 of that would be VAT leaving £1499 as margin

But on the invoice when you p'x and buy showing the balance to pay do they alter the values to pay less tax?

Regards, David
Peugeot 308 GT Premium, 1.5 diesel 2021

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But on the invoice when you p'x and buy showing the balance to pay do they alter the values to pay less tax?

Not in my experience, nor would I expect its easy to balance the books for the accountant either.

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Don't forget VAT will be included on the sticker price. So £2699 of that would be VAT leaving £1499 as margin.

 

We found we got a better price from the websites like WeBuyAnyCaravan, drop them all a message and see who comes back with a better price. Saved us a few thousand when we sold

 

Is this correct? I rather thought that VAT was levied on the profit margin rather than the sale price.

Edited by rovinmad
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Don't forget VAT will be included on the sticker price. So £2699 of that would be VAT leaving £1499 as margin.

 

We found we got a better price from the websites like WeBuyAnyCaravan, drop them all a message and see who comes back with a better price. Saved us a few thousand when we sold

Whilst the sticker price is inclusive of VAT, I think that you will find that the VAT charged on pre-owned goods is much lower than in your calculation. I would suggest that it is unlikely to be shown on the invoice as it is a calculation made on the dealer's VAT return.

 

Provided that the dealer conforms with the simple VAT margin scheme, VAT is charged on the difference between the P/X allowance and the selling price.

 

My calculation of dealer's margin, nett of £699 VAT based on Andy's figures is £3999.

Edited by DeeTee
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I thought VAT was Value Added Tax. The difference between dealer buying in price and dealer selling price is the Added Value. If the difference was £3K, the VAT would be £600. So a used caravan selling at £13,600 would be bought in at £10,000 and the dealer would have made £3K. If the dealer marked it up by £3K they would only make £2400. Gross profit after paying the VAT.

Ern

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When I took our van for service a couple of weeks ago,dealer had several new Pegasuses for under 18k. Realistically,is anyone going to pay 13. 5k for a six years old one?

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I thought VAT was Value Added Tax. The difference between dealer buying in price and dealer selling price is the Added Value. If the difference was £3K, the VAT would be £600. So a used caravan selling at £13,600 would be bought in at £10,000 and the dealer would have made £3K. If the dealer marked it up by £3K they would only make £2400. Gross profit after paying the VAT.

Your example does not apply to second hand goods bought from or traded in by a member of the public.

 

The VAT margin scheme, which charges VAT at the lower rate of 16. 667% on the differential and is only available to VAT registered dealers who sell second hand goods, is fully explained in the link I provided above.

 

Failure to use the scheme leaves the liable to pay to HMRC VAT on the full selling price at the full VAT rate

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I know in the car dealers there are 2 ways vat can be charged and would think the same would apply .

 

The margin scheme or on full price .

http://www. thisismoney. co. uk/money/experts/article-1630721/Do-I-have-to-pay-VAT-on-a-second-hand-car. html

 

 

Dave

Jeep Commander 3. 0 V6 CRD

Isuzu D- Max Utah Auto

Elddis Crusader Storm 2000 Kgs, Unipart Royal Atlas Mover .

 

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I think most salesmen would sell their own children to make a profit. I don't think they are all born that way but it is a job where lies and untruths and general slimeyness get you to the top.

 

Interestingly enough - there are some remarkable similarities with them and a great many politicians.

 

Perhaps some politicians are hedging their bets in the knowledge that selling caravan could be a worthwhile stepping -stone before a new political position is realised again.

Life in general can be a journey of chance with some winners and sadly some losers. Your outfit can never be left to chance. A short-while carrying out essential checks can ensure a long-time of happy & safe caravanning for all concerned.
Ignorance can often be bliss but is certainly not an excuse and when continually disregarded they can be totally disastrous for oneself and the innocent parties.

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Whilst the sticker price is inclusive of VAT, I think that you will find that the VAT charged on pre-owned goods is much lower than in your calculation. I would suggest that it is unlikely to be shown on the invoice as it is a calculation made on the dealer's VAT return.

 

Provided that the dealer conforms with the simple VAT margin scheme, VAT is charged on the difference between the P/X allowance and the selling price.

 

My calculation of dealer's margin, nett of £699 VAT based on Andy's figures is £3999.

 

Thanks, I wasn't aware of all that. Every day's a school day :)

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I know in the car dealers there are 2 ways vat can be charged and would think the same would apply .

 

The margin scheme or on full price .

http://www. thisismoney. co. uk/money/experts/article-1630721/Do-I-have-to-pay-VAT-on-a-second-hand-car. html

 

 

Dave

 

Correct Dave,

 

On new cars, caravans and motorhomes VAT is calculated using the manufacturers selling price, if that selling price is discounted then the VAT is calculated on the lower amount.

 

This is why when buying new, regardless of the over-allowance given on your PX out of the profit they have in the new unit, the dealer will nearly always want to show your PX at its lower “Trade Value” and reduce the selling price by the relevant amount as this reduces the amount of VAT payable.

 

On used cars, caravans and motorhomes the VAT is charged on the difference between what the vehicle is sold for and the value it was brought on to the dealers books at, hence the term Margin Scheme.

 

The dealer cannot choose to opt in or out of a scheme, the HMRC rules apply regardless provided the dealer is VAT registered.

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I must admit that the £13,499 asking price surprised me as most dealers are asking around £12,000 to £12,500 for a 2012 Peggy 2. I'm wondering if it has been in stock a long time and they can't be bothered to alter the sticker.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

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I must admit that the £13,499 asking price surprised me as most dealers are asking around £12,000 to £12,500 for a 2012 Peggy 2. I'm wondering if it has been in stock a long time and they can't be bothered to alter the sticker.

 

The dealer can write the value of the used caravan down each month on their accounts as the are allowed to deduct depreciation of the asset, unfortunately if they are lazy they don't do this and then caravans look out of bed on price.

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Don't forget VAT will be included on the sticker price. So £2699 of that would be VAT leaving £1499 as margin.

 

We found we got a better price from the websites like WeBuyAnyCaravan, drop them all a message and see who comes back with a better price. Saved us a few thousand when we sold

AFAIK, VAT is only paid on the difference

2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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  • 2 weeks later...

A caravan dealership is like every other business, they will always attempt to maximise their profit. Many people will simply accept whatever trade in/cost to change figure they are given, other (more savvy individuals) will always haggle. The first group subsidise the second.

 

No matter what you are buying always always haggle, you will be successful a lot more times than you think.

 

Mrs P walks away when it comes to purchases, she finds it embarrassing, but she certainly never complains when I get a "deal"

 

Andy

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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Personally, I only go to Leisure Sales for the cafe's bacon butty. Mmmmm, delicious :lol:.

 

Personally, I will never, ever buy caravans, cars, etc, brand new, because the minute the sold sign is stuck on the vehicle, its lost close to half its price, and that's before you put on your first mile

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