Jump to content

Alko Axle / Bailey Caravan Problems


Recommended Posts

19 hours ago, JTQ said:

 

On the other hand, my German built van came factory, note factory fitted not dealer fitted, with a 90 Ah, but very heavy Gel battery, all included in the MIRO.  Plus, the EHU cable & reel and the , fitted spare wheel and step are in the MIRO.

The payload, is (1890-1613)=277 Kgs, an earlier one was about 320 kgs. 

 

 

How do you know that the factory-fitted battery is included in the MIRO? Unless all versions of that particular model are fitted with a battery as standard, it won't be the case. MIRO is, after all, not the ex-works weight, but only that of the base model without any factory fitted options.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 467
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

My husband and I own a Bailey Unicorn Seville 2013.  A recent service by our local Bailey dealership revealed that wheel clearance below the bodywork was only 2cms on one side and 2.5cms on the other,

I'm sorry, it may make a satisfying rant but the DVSA is a government agency that has very little to do with caravans in the scheme of things. The NC c is the 'leisure' industry's trade association an

The NCC, is not an end user interest organisation, it is an industry interest group, no more than that.    The NCC chose not to include a battery in the MIRO and were pretty selective about

Posted Images

31 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

How do you know that the factory-fitted battery is included in the MIRO? Unless all versions of that particular model are fitted with a battery as standard, it won't be the case. MIRO is, after all, not the ex-works weight, but only that of the base model without any factory fitted options.

 

You have it in one, all of them had it as standard.  And as I inspected it off the low loader, then it was either factory fitted as we specified it to be or somebody did it on route to the UK.

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, JTQ said:

 

You have it in one, all of them had it as standard.  And as I inspected it off the low loader, then it was either factory fitted as we specified it to be or somebody did it on route to the UK.

 

Even then one cannot be sure if the battery is included in the MIRO. In general, German caravans are seldom fitted with a battery as standard. Almost invariably it will be a factory fitted option if it arrived like that at the dealer, although it is quite possible that the UK distributor always specifies the option as a matter of course because of UK market demands.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If it was Lowdhams supplied, they have a standard spec. that all their Hymer stock vans are built to, though it can vary year on year. You can also order additional cost options and quite possibly even specify a barer van if you're prepared to wait for a factory order, whereas the standard dealer spec. may well be in stock, or have a production space allocated. UK Eriba Touring dealers all have their own standard fit-out, which can vary from dealer to dealer. However you can order a poverty spec van, if you want and order as many cost option items as you can afford, if you want. The dealers alway quote the MIRO of the poverty spec van, as that's all the MIRO information that Hymer provide. Any cost options added, including battery and charger, spare wheel, shower equipment, boiler, upgraded exterior finish, steel sprung seating etc, etc is part of payload.

 

I guess the only way to tell in JTQ's case is whether the declared MIRO for his 'imported' Hymer is different to the same model Hymer on their standard model list. It would certainly be unusual for them to recertify the MIRO for a few vans built to a UK dealerships particular spec.   

 

PS to my mind the practice of quoting poverty spec. MIRO's has dangers, I've lost count of the number of Touring owners who've declared their delight at the 'enormous' payload of their vans, not realising that a large chunk has been 'eaten' by all the cost options added to meet their UK dealer's standard stock spec. It can reduce the available payload to roughly the amount that UK vans have. That misunderstanding can lead to substantial overloading.  

 

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

If it was Lowdhams supplied, they have a standard spec. that all their Hymer stock vans are built to, though it can vary year on year. You can also order additional cost options and quite possibly even specify a barer van if you're prepared to wait for a factory order, whereas the standard dealer spec. may well be in stock, or have a production space allocated. UK Eriba Touring dealers all have their own standard fit-out, which can vary from dealer to dealer. However you can order a poverty spec van, if you want and order as many cost option items as you can afford, if you want. The dealers alway quote the MIRO of the poverty spec van, as that's all the MIRO information that Hymer provide. Any cost options added, including battery and charger, spare wheel, shower equipment, boiler, upgraded exterior finish, steel sprung seating etc, etc is part of payload.

 

I guess the only way to tell in JTQ's case is whether the declared MIRO for his 'imported' Hymer is different to the same model Hymer on their standard model list. It would certainly be unusual for them to recertify the MIRO for a few vans built to a UK dealerships particular spec.   

 

PS to my mind the practice of quoting poverty spec. MIRO's has dangers, I've lost count of the number of Touring owners who've declared their delight at the 'enormous' payload of their vans, not realising that a large chunk has been 'eaten' by all the cost options added to meet their UK dealer's standard stock spec. It can reduce the available payload to roughly the amount that UK vans have. That misunderstanding can lead to substantial overloading.  

 

 

Absolutely, SDA. That's why published MIRO's, even those documented by the manufacturer, seldom reflect actual conditions and are therefore not very helpful to anyone.

Edited by Lutz
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

My husband and I own a Bailey Unicorn Seville 2013.  A recent service by our local Bailey dealership revealed that wheel clearance below the bodywork was only 2cms on one side and 2.5cms on the other, both within the danger area. The dealership said that the only cure was to fit a replacement axle with replacement rubber suspensions at what appeared to be a horrifying cost. On researching the internet, we came across the various histories of similar problems by other caravan owners of various marques.  As we were well out of warranty and were not prepared to get involved in litigious correspondence and proceedings for what we believe to be a design fault, we shopped around the country for quotations to repair the problem.

 

During this we came across  Fraser Brown, an engineering company in north Scotland which had been advising claimants, and had a long discussion with Mr. Brown. His company offer a replacement service which simply replaces the rubber suspensions with specially designed superior rubber items,  without the need to replace the axle. The quoted cost was under £600. We also came across engineering companies nearer us in the south east.

 

One of them was  Western Towing with two repair locations based at Exeter Devon as well as Newton Abbot Devon. They were familiar with the problem and quoted us under £500 for the cost of the full replacement axle and revised suspensions by Al-Ko, plus VAT and an hourly fitting charge. Speaking to their engineers, we felt sufficient confidence to arrange the replacement with them and towed our caravan to their Newton Abbot workshops. Their engineer, Mike, was extremely friendly, knowledgeable and helpful. The work was carried out smoothly and successfully within a few hours and the final cost to us was less than half of the replacement costs quoted by numerous caravan dealerships.

 

We are now happily caravanning again with a repaired van. We have no financial or social connections  of any kind with the company but would highly recommend them for their cost-effectiveness and expertise. Their contact details are Western Towing, 3 Marsh Green Road North, Marsh Barton, Exeter Devon EX2 8NY telephone 01392 216336 and ask for Hayley.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

I’ve just seen a new Phoenix at a site we are currently on and wow !..... What a massive wheel arch clearance they have  compared to my U4 . It’s so big I don’t think it would ever cause a issue even if the axle did fail !! 

  • Haha 1

2019 Ford Transit DCIV Limited 190bhp Auto / 2007 VW Transporter Kombi 2.5 TDI 174bhp  4 Motion  +  2018 Bailey Unicorn lV Valencia 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, cb300 said:

I’ve just seen a new Phoenix at a site we are currently on and wow !..... What a massive wheel arch clearance they have  compared to my U4 . It’s so big I don’t think it would ever cause a issue even if the axle did fail !! 

Thought these issues were on Uni 3's

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just like to add something to this thread my 2017 Valencia when acurately weighed was 40Kg under Alko's supposed weighing. More importantly when weighed to MRO (EC regulation 1230/2012) it was 40Kg over what it should be. based on EN1645-2 MRO it was nearly 85Kg over MRO. Now bear in mind Bailey issued the caravan with a an NCC certificate signed by Nick Howard (Bailey MD) stating the caravan complies with EN1645-2. The NCC have replied to me stating Bailey must have issued it in error 5 years after they weren't supposed to be issuing it and it must be old stock. So everybody with a post 2012 Bailey caravan and this certificate stating it complies with EN1645-2 can you please email Jo Chubb info@ncc.org.uk and let her know. Essentially this claim Bailey make of overloading is their problem if you have this certificate from them as so much is supposed to be included in EN1645-2 MRO including all manufacturing tolerance. The NCC certificate states in the left hand box top half what standards it complies with. If the NCC get enough emails they can't ignore it. I'd suggest emailing the camping and caravan club and the caravan and motorhome club too as they are going to challenge Bailey. Ultimately Bailey made this claim specific to caravans identified by their VIN number so you are well within your rights to demand they meet the standards requirements even though it was withdrawn in 2012 when the less stringent EC regulation came in.    They voluntarily declared the caravan meets it. If you want to read the standard it can be purchased for just over £6 from the Estonian standards institute.  

 

 

NCC CERT 2017 Valencia.JPG

Just like to add something to this thread my 2017 Valencia when acurately weighed was 40Kg under Alko's supposed weighing. More importantly when weighed to MRO (EC regulation 1230/2012) it was 40Kg over what it should be. based on EN1645-2 MRO it was nearly 85Kg over MRO. Now bear in mind Bailey issued the caravan with a an NCC certificate signed by Nick Howard (Bailey MD) stating the caravan complies with EN1645-2. The NCC have replied to me stating Bailey must have issued it in error 5 years after they weren't supposed to be issuing it and it must be old stock. So everybody with a post 2012 Bailey caravan and this certificate stating it complies with EN1645-2 can you please email Jo Chubb info@ncc.org.uk and let her know. Essentially this claim Bailey make of overloading is their problem if you have this certificate from them as so much is supposed to be included in EN1645-2 MRO including all manufacturing tolerance. The NCC certificate states in the left hand box top half what standards it complies with. If the NCC get enough emails they can't ignore it. I'd suggest emailing the camping and caravan club and the caravan and motorhome club too.  

NCC CERT 2017 Valencia.JPG

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 05/05/2019 at 16:40, Silverback said:

Thought these issues were on Uni 3's

Mines worrying close but my dealers supposedly checked it on the first service and it was ok . I keep checking for tyre rub and to be honest can’t believe it doesn’t ! Hopefully it’ll stay where it is and not get any lower.

2019 Ford Transit DCIV Limited 190bhp Auto / 2007 VW Transporter Kombi 2.5 TDI 174bhp  4 Motion  +  2018 Bailey Unicorn lV Valencia 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, cb300 said:

Mines worrying close but my dealers supposedly checked it on the first service and it was ok . I keep checking for tyre rub and to be honest can’t believe it doesn’t ! Hopefully it’ll stay where it is and not get any lower.

Ideally the minimum gap should be nearside over 30 mm and offside no less than 25 mm from top of tyre to wheel arch liner anything less suspect axle failure. My 2019 Vigo was 60 mm on both side after fitting a motor mover, battery and essencial living items it is now 50 mm on both side.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 09/05/2019 at 23:09, Jeff the biker said:

Just like to add something to this thread my 2017 Valencia when acurately weighed was 40Kg under Alko's supposed weighing. More importantly when weighed to MRO (EC regulation 1230/2012) it was 40Kg over what it should be. based on EN1645-2 MRO it was nearly 85Kg over MRO. Now bear in mind Bailey issued the caravan with a an NCC certificate signed by Nick Howard (Bailey MD) stating the caravan complies with EN1645-2. The NCC have replied to me stating Bailey must have issued it in error 5 years after they weren't supposed to be issuing it and it must be old stock. So everybody with a post 2012 Bailey caravan and this certificate stating it complies with EN1645-2 can you please email Jo Chubb info@ncc.org.uk and let her know. Essentially this claim Bailey make of overloading is their problem if you have this certificate from them as so much is supposed to be included in EN1645-2 MRO including all manufacturing tolerance. The NCC certificate states in the left hand box top half what standards it complies with. If the NCC get enough emails they can't ignore it. I'd suggest emailing the camping and caravan club and the caravan and motorhome club too as they are going to challenge Bailey. Ultimately Bailey made this claim specific to caravans identified by their VIN number so you are well within your rights to demand they meet the standards requirements even though it was withdrawn in 2012 when the less stringent EC regulation came in.    They voluntarily declared the caravan meets it. If you want to read the standard it can be purchased for just over £6 from the Estonian standards institute.  

 

 

NCC CERT 2017 Valencia.JPG

Just like to add something to this thread my 2017 Valencia when acurately weighed was 40Kg under Alko's supposed weighing. More importantly when weighed to MRO (EC regulation 1230/2012) it was 40Kg over what it should be. based on EN1645-2 MRO it was nearly 85Kg over MRO. Now bear in mind Bailey issued the caravan with a an NCC certificate signed by Nick Howard (Bailey MD) stating the caravan complies with EN1645-2. The NCC have replied to me stating Bailey must have issued it in error 5 years after they weren't supposed to be issuing it and it must be old stock. So everybody with a post 2012 Bailey caravan and this certificate stating it complies with EN1645-2 can you please email Jo Chubb info@ncc.org.uk and let her know. Essentially this claim Bailey make of overloading is their problem if you have this certificate from them as so much is supposed to be included in EN1645-2 MRO including all manufacturing tolerance. The NCC certificate states in the left hand box top half what standards it complies with. If the NCC get enough emails they can't ignore it. I'd suggest emailing the camping and caravan club and the caravan and motorhome club too.  

 

 

The manufacturer, in this case Bailey, maintains product liability not for a caravan according to a published MIRO plus payload according to EN1645-2 but for the weight shown on the statutory type approval plate. To meet NCC rules, the manufacturer certifies MIRO plus payload, but he also certifies an MTPLM as covered by type approval documentation and this can be higher. It is certainly never less. Therefore, what the NCC certificate shows, has no bearing on the manufacturer's product liability. The actual MIRO only determines the available payload, it doesn't have any effect on the type approved MTPLM.

By the way, EN 1645-2 is not an EU regulation, but an industry standard.

 

Edited by Lutz
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...
On 25/04/2019 at 15:57, Aniphil said:

My husband and I own a Bailey Unicorn Seville 2013.  A recent service by our local Bailey dealership revealed that wheel clearance below the bodywork was only 2cms on one side and 2.5cms on the other, both within the danger area. The dealership said that the only cure was to fit a replacement axle with replacement rubber suspensions at what appeared to be a horrifying cost. On researching the internet, we came across the various histories of similar problems by other caravan owners of various marques.  As we were well out of warranty and were not prepared to get involved in litigious correspondence and proceedings for what we believe to be a design fault, we shopped around the country for quotations to repair the problem.

 

During this we came across  Fraser Brown, an engineering company in north Scotland which had been advising claimants, and had a long discussion with Mr. Brown. His company offer a replacement service which simply replaces the rubber suspensions with specially designed superior rubber items,  without the need to replace the axle. The quoted cost was under £600. We also came across engineering companies nearer us in the south east.

 

One of them was  Western Towing with two repair locations based at Exeter Devon as well as Newton Abbot Devon. They were familiar with the problem and quoted us under £500 for the cost of the full replacement axle and revised suspensions by AL-KO, plus VAT and an hourly fitting charge. Speaking to their engineers, we felt sufficient confidence to arrange the replacement with them and towed our caravan to their Newton Abbot workshops. Their engineer, Mike, was extremely friendly, knowledgeable and helpful. The work was carried out smoothly and successfully within a few hours and the final cost to us was less than half of the replacement costs quoted by numerous caravan dealerships.

 

We are now happily caravanning again with a repaired van. We have no financial or social connections  of any kind with the company but would highly recommend them for their cost-effectiveness and expertise. Their contact details are Western Towing, 3 Marsh Green Road North, Marsh Barton, Exeter Devon EX2 8NY telephone 01392 216336 and ask for Hayley.

Could you please advise the address and contact details of Fraser Brown in Scotland?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't realise my previous post was for AL-KO torsion bar axles. 

For IRS axles as fitted by Bailey please click on the link below.

 

http://www.fraserbrowneng.co.uk/index.php?c=irs-axle-repair

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have just posted a potential problem on another thread  and then came across this thread regarding AL-KO chassis.  A lot has been said about overloading.  Everyone relating to the mass all up weight for travelling.  AL-KO stating thet the chassis has been overloaded by 98kg etc.  However, when the caravan is stationary and everyone jumps in to live aboard then the caravan is definitely overloaded and even with corner steadies the main load is on the wheels and suspension.  Surely this must be accommodated for in manufacture?

 

I've only been caravanning for six months and I have lost faith in the industries who manufacture and repair these things fast.  Dodgy or what? I don't think I will ever buy another caravan!

DSC_0020.JPG

BMW X3     Lunar Clubman SB                      Everything will be alright in the end and if its not alright,  then its not yet the end!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...