Alko Axle / Bailey Caravan Problems

[briff]

Axle problem can anyone help Cadiz purchased 28 November2014 jan while away in Spain found axle problem 25 m on o/s 17 m on n/s dealer has contacted Bailey and myself and they are saying out of warranty because it’s over 3years old . They are suggesting buying a axle or insurance I don’t think so . regards Briff.

[Steamdrivenandy]

Bailey warranted those parts for 36 months and we're now 40 months on from purchase date, so their answer is technically correct. I doubt if SOGA or CRA rules will allow you to claim of the selling dealer at this distance from original sale, though you could ask them about some sort of cost sharing deal. You could involve AlKo but you're likely to get the same response.

 

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/club-together/discussions/information-technical-tips-advice/caravans/alko-axle-problems-2/?p=1

 

 

[Guest]

Just found this

[lowedb]

So it would seem there is increased sliminess afoot now. Apparently the reason for my lack of clearance (found at the recent service) is not that the axle has relaxed, but that the wheel boxes have sagged. And those only have a two year warranty, and the van is three years old. So they want to charge me £300 for something that will fail in the same way.  I can smell a 'not fit for purpose' claim coming over the hill.

[bookandym]

On 02/06/2018 at 16:21, lowedb said:

So it would seem there is increased sliminess afoot now. Apparently the reason for my lack of clearance (found at the recent service) is not that the axle has relaxed, but that the wheel boxes have sagged. And those only have a two year warranty, and the van is three years old. So they want to charge me £300 for something that will fail in the same way.  I can smell a 'not fit for purpose' claim coming over the hill.

So if the wheel box has only sagged? It could easily be fixed by fixing the sagged part to the interior structure? Why pay for a piece of plastic the could fail again?

Can you see an obvious sag?

[lowedb]

On 27/06/2018 at 23:32, bookandym said:

So if the wheel box has only sagged? It could easily be fixed by fixing the sagged part to the interior structure? Why pay for a piece of plastic the could fail again?

Can you see an obvious sag?

No, but I can see the wheel is far too close to the wheelbox having looked today before we left site. Funnily enough on the side with the gas bottles just like all the others. Luckily it seems that I will be getting an axle after all, but let's see if that goes ahead. I'll update once it gets done.

[lowedb]

On 30/06/2018 at 15:24, lowedb said:

No, but I can see the wheel is far too close to the wheelbox having looked today before we left site. Funnily enough on the side with the gas bottles just like all the others. Luckily it seems that I will be getting an axle after all, but let's see if that goes ahead. I'll update once it gets done.

It doesn't seem to be good. Bailey promised me that a new axle would be with a local dealer within ten working days. It still isn't fifteen working days later and they are now ignoring my emails. I suspect it's all a ploy to push it beyond any attempt to claim through the courts! You can go off certain brands very quickly! 

[lowedb]

On 12/07/2018 at 21:20, lowedb said:

It doesn't seem to be good. Bailey promised me that a new axle would be with a local dealer within ten working days. It still isn't fifteen working days later and they are now ignoring my emails. I suspect it's all a ploy to push it beyond any attempt to claim through the courts! You can go off certain brands very quickly! 

And in spite of my continued attempts to contact them, nothing. Nada. Silence. I mean they could at least acknowledge they are now ignoring me, but not even that!

[Woodentop]

I haven't read the whole 6 pages but one thing does spring to mind.

We have recently taken delivery of a Unicorn Seville S4 and had it factory uprated - I won't go into what a con that is! The original MTPLM was 1327Kg; the uprated is 1450Kg. The worrying thing is that the caravan only has a 1450Kg axle (there's a label on it showing its rating) which leaves no room for gravitational effects whilst towing and (technically) the weight of people inside when on site. <Unless> of course the axle actually has undisclosed headroom - one would have thought at least 10% - and then the whole party is different.

Oh, sorry, I forgot. Caravan manufacture is still a cottage industry no matter how big and modern the manufacturers works and as such they will skimp anything and everything they can to improve their margins. For heaven's sake why cannot they fit a 1500Kg axle and then rate the MTPLM (original or uprated) as 1450 leaving room for error or whatever - the price difference can't be that much?

 

[charlieboy2608]

7 hours ago, Woodentop said:

I haven't read the whole 6 pages but one thing does spring to mind.

We have recently taken delivery of a Unicorn Seville S4 and had it factory uprated - I won't go into what a con that is! The original MTPLM was 1327Kg; the uprated is 1450Kg. The worrying thing is that the caravan only has a 1450Kg axle (there's a label on it showing its rating) which leaves no room for gravitational effects whilst towing and (technically) the weight of people inside when on site. <Unless> of course the axle actually has undisclosed headroom - one would have thought at least 10% - and then the whole party is different.

Oh, sorry, I forgot. Caravan manufacture is still a cottage industry no matter how big and modern the manufacturers works and as such they will skimp anything and everything they can to improve their margins. For heaven's sake why cannot they fit a 1500Kg axle and then rate the MTPLM (original or uprated) as 1450 leaving room for error or whatever - the price difference can't be that much?

 

Hi

Can I ask where on the ALKO axle you  found its loading weight?

Thanks in advance.

[Woodentop]

2 hours ago, charlieboy2608 said:

Hi

Can I ask where on the ALKO axle you  found its loading weight?

Thanks in advance.

 

In theory a label facing rearwards on the axle casing somewhere near the centre. In fact mine is almost under the axle casing about 1/3 across from the nearside. Easiest way to read it is to use a camera to take a picture of it.

[charlieboy2608]

2 hours ago, Woodentop said:

 

In theory a label facing rearwards on the axle casing somewhere near the centre. In fact mine is almost under the axle casing about 1/3 across from the nearside. Easiest way to read it is to use a camera to take a picture of it.

Thank you

[a18041967]

On 27/05/2017 at 10:25, CommanderDave said:

The axle has failed for whatever reason so how does the manufacturer prove the caravan was overloaded ?

 

 

Dave

 

Same question from me, took delivery of a Unicorn S4 Valencia in January and noticed wheel arch gap reducing. Took it into dealers and they have confirmed the  gap is just 28mm. Not sure what happens next, preparing myself for the ALKO overloaded excuse.

[Lutz]

On 17/07/2018 at 23:43, Woodentop said:

I haven't read the whole 6 pages but one thing does spring to mind.

We have recently taken delivery of a Unicorn Seville S4 and had it factory uprated - I won't go into what a con that is! The original MTPLM was 1327Kg; the uprated is 1450Kg. The worrying thing is that the caravan only has a 1450Kg axle (there's a label on it showing its rating) which leaves no room for gravitational effects whilst towing and (technically) the weight of people inside when on site. <Unless> of course the axle actually has undisclosed headroom - one would have thought at least 10% - and then the whole party is different.

Oh, sorry, I forgot. Caravan manufacture is still a cottage industry no matter how big and modern the manufacturers works and as such they will skimp anything and everything they can to improve their margins. For heaven's sake why cannot they fit a 1500Kg axle and then rate the MTPLM (original or uprated) as 1450 leaving room for error or whatever - the price difference can't be that much?

 

 

Axle rating is always a static rating for towing use. Of course, the axle can be loaded to more than its rated value both when the caravan is set up on a pitch with a full complement of occupants or dynamically when being subjected to shock loads while towing.  There is therefore no reason why the MTPLM should be lower than the axle rating. Theoretically the MTPLM could even be greater than the axle rating because MTPLM is axle load plus noseweight. However, it would then always be necessary to be very careful with the distribution of the payload or else one or the other limit can quickly be exceeded.

[a18041967]

Supposedly we are the first Unicorn S4 customer to experience the axle of death issue. ALKO due to inspect caravan on Friday, but we have a couple of questions.

 

1. If ALKO claim we have overloaded our caravan and Bailey refuse to cover the cost how much does a replacement cost?

 

2. If customer is paying for a replacement can an ALKO 1550kg be fitted instead of the original 1500kg?

 

Obviously we will fight a decision based on overload. What I do find strange is why we've experienced this issue on the Unicorn but no other Bailey. It would be interesting to know what axle was fitted to our 2011 Verona.

[sureflow]

Had our 2015 Unicorn axle changed last year on warranty The first thing the dealer will almost certainly do is weigh the van. Apparently they can tell if the van has been overloaded by the deformation of the axle inner rubbers . The cost is somewhere around the £1200 mark. To be fair, although I was as concerned as you probably are they were honest and accepted the failure which  eventually became an axle  batch problem covering many vans. I believe you can fit an uprated axle but didnt pursue it. The job takes a day and some dealers can complete in 4-5 hours.

It is a worry especially when you know you havent overloaded; but as I say it went much smoother than I imagined.

Good luck and let us know how it all goes.

[Steamdrivenandy]

All 4 berth single axle Pegasus 2 models had MTPLM's of around 1495kg to 1498kg and are on 1500kg axles.  Hence no weight upgrades available. The payloads are the usual 150kg to 160kg NCC guideline amounts but what makes it worse is the standard fit out is cushions across the front. If you wanted a central front chest it was a cost option and used 13.5kg of payload, if fitted. So chest, mover and battery could use between 70kg and 80kg of payload before adding a thing and if you added two full 6kg gas cylinders you could have used up 100kg before even a teaspoon was loaded.

[a18041967]

5 hours ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

All 4 berth single axle Pegasus 2 models had MTPLM's of around 1495kg to 1498kg and are on 1500kg axles.   Hence no weight upgrades available. The payloads are the usual 150kg to 160kg NCC guideline amounts but what makes it worse is the standard fit out is cushions across the front. If you wanted a central front chest it was a cost option and used 13. 5kg of payload, if fitted. So chest, mover and battery could use between 70kg and 80kg of payload before adding a thing and if you added two full 6kg gas cylinders you could have used up 100kg before even a teaspoon was loaded.

 

Thats useful information, in our previous Verona we had the mover, chester draws and 2 * 10kg gas light cylinders which I think are 16. 5kg each, with a similar if not higher payload than our Valencia S4. So I was clearly overloading the Verona and previous Bailey caravans but the current Valencia has been carefully loaded.  Only one gas cylinder and all other items carefully weighed, according to my calculations its around 1476kg and MTPLM is 1499kg. So theres 23kg contingency for errors and the bags of pegs I’ve not accounted for.

 

Dealership have said they are surprised by the axle on our S4 and based on our loading, they haven’t seen an axle issue like ours. They have suggested that they will take our caravan to public weigh bridge to verify weight prior to ALKO’s visit. This did stimulate a discusion regarding which weighing method was-the  most accurate, initially it was the ALKO, but supposedly the weigh bridge is very accurate and needs to be for legal reasons.

 

How much contingency does ALKO & Bailey give, without unloading the caravan before inspection there is no way of confirming if the core caravan was below or over specification?

[Steamdrivenandy]

Generally manufacturer's put a footnote on their spec. sheet giving themselves +/- 5% margin on any weights, but the limits are limits. So MRO can be +/- 5% but MTPLM is a fixed limit.

[JTQ]

And if it was plus in your example above another 67 kgs is coming out of your already impossibly low 70 to 80 kg residual payload.

3 kgs for all the bedding, crocks, cutlery shoes, more shoes and several little outfits, not a lot for all that!

[Steamdrivenandy]

I've always felt that the 5% allowance is a lawyer's figure, not a sensible potential over or under weight. In other words lawyer's tell the manufacturer to specify a margin that they're never, ever going to exceed.

 

MRO's are never going to be accurate because of manufacturing tolerances on the hundreds of parts and materials used, but they're normally fairly close.

[a18041967]

2 hours ago, JTQ said:

And if it was plus in your example above another 67 kgs is coming out of your already impossibly low 70 to 80 kg residual payload.

3 kgs for all the bedding, crocks, cutlery shoes, more shoes and several little outfits, not a lot for all that!

 

In my calculations I have included 5kg for pots & pans, cutlery, but I've not included anything for food bedding, clothes or shoes and these are normally in the car and when ALKO weigh our caravan they have all been removed.

 

Calculations as follows: 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by a18041967

[lowedb]

Well I said I would report back. Axle change, no accusations or anything, just done.  

 

I have weighed everything, and surprised myself. I really thought we travelled light but found us more borderline that I expected (though still within weights). Your quilt on the bed and pillows for example will be 2 to 3 kilos. Do you have an extra doormat to protect the fixed one?  Plates and cutlery? Do you keep the caravan manual in the van (and do they include it the MiRO?) it's surprisingly heavy. Throws to keep the cushions clean? Noseweight gauge? Levelling ramps and chocks? Mattress protector? That spare coat and fleece to make sure you are warm and dry in case you forget wheel packing?

 

I hear many people that travel with food in the fridge and clothes in the wardrobes. We have never done, and I'm glad we didn't as we would have been over. Knowing the numbers, I will even be draining the water heater before leaving site! I fully 'get' those that complain the user payload is unreasonably low. To the extent that we have today been looking for lighter saucepans and we only have two aluminium ones anyway.

 

 

[Crannoghome]

When we were buying our Lunar last year we asked about increasing the plated MTPLM and were told not to bother because it would only give us an extra 45Kg.   After doing the same calculations as a18041967, we worked out that we would only have 14Kg for food and clothing after factoring in the mover and the actual weights of the battery and gas bottle.  

 

An extra £50 bought us a new label increasing our MTPLM from 1205Kg to 1250Kg (axle's max load).  So it's food in the fridge and clothing in the wardrobes - the awning and chairs always go in the car.

 

The excessive MIRO nose weight of our van doesn't help either.   It means that in order to get under our car's max towball weight of 70Kg, we have to put the aquaroll, waste and mains lead (16Kg) in the end bathroom.

[a18041967]

On 02/09/2018 at 20:30, lowedb said:

Well I said I would report back. Axle change, no accusations or anything, just done.  

 

I have weighed everything, and surprised myself. I really thought we travelled light but found us more borderline that I expected (though still within weights). Your quilt on the bed and pillows for example will be 2 to 3 kilos. Do you have an extra doormat to protect the fixed one?  Plates and cutlery? Do you keep the caravan manual in the van (and do they include it the MiRO?) it's surprisingly heavy. Throws to keep the cushions clean? Noseweight gauge? Levelling ramps and chocks? Mattress protector? That spare coat and fleece to make sure you are warm and dry in case you forget wheel packing?

 

I hear many people that travel with food in the fridge and clothes in the wardrobes. We have never done, and I'm glad we didn't as we would have been over. Knowing the numbers, I will even be draining the water heater before leaving site! I fully 'get' those that complain the user payload is unreasonably low. To the extent that we have today been looking for lighter saucepans and we only have two aluminium ones anyway.

 

 

Did you ever see the report that ALKO  produced, were you told what the actual weights were? The reason for asking is our Valencia is being inspected today and it would be interesting to see the report. Supposedly I will have to wait +5 days for a letter from Bailey, the dealership will receive an email confirmation before I receive the letter, so another weeks wait.

 

I’m a little concerned, even though I’ve produced the spreadsheet I’m aware theres things missing, pegs, levelling ramps, various gas and water pipes, awning groundsheet, and a swingball! these will easily eat into my 10-15kg contingency. The contingency also assumes that all my other weights are 100% correct, lets hope my weights are actually too high and I have a higher allowance.

 

Yet another question, those people who have had a replacement axle fitted has the problem reoccurred? This would indicate if the issue relates to the type of axles being fitted or possibly just a specific batch of axles that are faulty.

Edited September 7, 2018 by a18041967