Jump to content

Review: Outlander Phev


djwake
 Share

Recommended Posts

As said above, "normal" is very different across the whole range of drivers - my own driving falls into 4 categories, with very different normal figures - short shopping trips, never warmed up fully, so 25 on good days - towing, mainly on motorways and dual carriageways 22-25 depending on the wind - leisurely touring around once we're on site 38-39 - other long trips solo 34-35.

 

Back in the '70/80s when standardised testing was introduced we had "urban" which gave better figures than most peple acheived as it was based on Californian temperatures, "steady 75mph" which gave a figure most people could acheive on the motorway ans "steady 56mph" which was no use to man nor beast - the various changes since then have made the official figures less and less use.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to the Honest John Real MPG pages a PHEV has an official mpg of between 99. 9 and 148mpg.

 

70 people have registered real mpg's and their average is 59. 1mpg with figures running between 45 and 67mpg. Overall it's Real MPG is 48% of it's Official MPG.

 

I also took the opportunity to check what it says about my new Yeti 1. 2 110PS DSG. Official MPG is 51-53. Submitted range 33-45mpg. Average submitted is 41. 2mpg or 79% of the official figure. With just under 2,000 miles on the clock, mine is averaging 41mpg, so in line with the average.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HJ's Real MPG gives a reasonable insight into real world consumption for specific models but somer lower volume models have a very small number of reports, which may mislead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was this running solely on petrol, or was the car also recharging the batteries?

 

Ideally such a test should be done with the batteries full and then run on petrol only.

 

Here you are, the REAL facts. Re recharging, the PHEV WILL NOT charge its batteries when towing my van, have tried it dozens of times, press the recharge button, and always get the same result, no upward movement of the charge gauge whatever. So that is a no no. I assume all the energy is going to drive the wheels, with no extra left to charge its batteries.

 

As for starting off with full batteries when towing, please be assured we always leave home with full batteries and a full tank of petrol. Here is the rub, within 10 or so miles the batteries are drained, and from then on it's petrol all the way. There is another button next to the re charge button which does its best to hold the charge in the batteries. I was told this is for when you leave the main highway and travel through a town or city just on electric power.

 

Regarding my test returning from the lakes, to make sure we were on petrol I deliberately ran the batteries flat the evening before we came home the next day. I have never tested the PHEV solo, but I will now do that and report back here when I have the results.

 

Any more info required I will do my best to help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was this running solely on petrol, or was the car also recharging the batteries?

 

Ideally such a test should be done with the batteries full and then run on petrol only.

That would be somewhat pointless, starting off with full batteries would have nowhere to store the regenerative braking and therefore make for worse fuel figures.

Ah! But there's the rub. What are the 'real figures'?

 

Are they the very best the manufacturer can finnese out of a controlled lab environment, are they what petrol head journalists get trying to wreck the thing on a test track, are they the results when driven by an eco-warrior using his best Mobil Economy Run techniques. Are they tootling round some urban suburb, are they blasting up the M6 at the dead of night, or roaring over an open moor at 5am Top Gear style, or stop/start on a commute to work where it would be quicker to walk.

 

Whatever anyone says is 'normal' won't be normal for lots of people.

No matter what figures you used, ANY would be better than the impossible claims portrayed.

According to the Honest John Real MPG pages a PHEV has an official mpg of between 99. 9 and 148mpg.

 

70 people have registered real mpg's and their average is 59. 1mpg with figures running between 45 and 67mpg. Overall it's Real MPG is 48% of it's Official MPG.

 

I also took the opportunity to check what it says about my new Yeti 1. 2 110PS DSG. Official MPG is 51-53. Submitted range 33-45mpg. Average submitted is 41. 2mpg or 79% of the official figure. With just under 2,000 miles on the clock, mine is averaging 41mpg, so in line with the average.

But is that without using electric because that is the ONLY mpg figure that's realistic. They may as well claim 1000 mpg if they do a 5 mile journey to work an back totally on electric.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The HJ figures are the standard EU test figures for a PHEV and the Real MPG figures are those achieved by users of PHEV's. One has to assume people log figures as they find them in their particular overall usage. Averaging like that at least has a chance of arriving at a sensible figure.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The HJ figures are the standard EU test figures for a PHEV and the Real MPG figures are those achieved by users of PHEV's. One has to assume people log figures as they find them in their particular overall usage. Averaging like that at least has a chance of arriving at a sensible figure.

So user number 1 drives 5 miles to work and 5 miles to home, puts it on charge at either end.

 

user number 2 drives 50 miles to work and 50 miles home in stop start traffic and can only charge it at home.

 

Both fuel consumptions are real, the first wont use any petrol, the second one will use quite a lot. What they SHOULD report is as before urban cycle, 56mph and mixed with it running on petrol, that would be more meaningful. Users reviewing it are most likely just taking figures off the display, its a bit like me putting my galaxy on a low loader and claiming 1500mpg.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I suppose I could put the first reading that my Yeti gives on starting up from cold, but being slightly sensible I don't and look at the overall mpg so far over the 1700 miles it's travelled.

 

Whilst there may be the odd idiot posting silly numbers I hope that most are being sensible and the daft 'uns get moderated

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I suppose I could put the first reading that my Yeti gives on starting up from cold, but being slightly sensible I don't and look at the overall mpg so far over the 1700 miles it's travelled.

 

Whilst there may be the odd idiot posting silly numbers I hope that most are being sensible and the daft 'uns get moderated

The problem is some of the PHEV drivers actually believe they're getting over 100 mpg, they're totally oblivious to the 15 charges of power that it's had. I'm not against the PHEV, I thinks its not a bad concept I just get really annoyed (I know I hide it well, you cant tell) when they have to go and spoil it all with not just inaccurate figures but stupidly inaccurate figures. I find it incredulous that some people are taken in by them, a bit like the facebook ones that respond to the 'Weve got 6 of last years motor homes to give away' , the number of people that like and share those beggars belief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is some of the PHEV drivers actually believe they're getting over 100 mpg, they're totally oblivious to the 15 charges of power that it's had. I'm not against the PHEV, I thinks its not a bad concept I just get really annoyed (I know I hide it well, you cant tell) when they have to go and spoil it all with not just inaccurate figures but stupidly inaccurate figures. I find it incredulous that some people are taken in by them, a bit like the facebook ones that respond to the 'Weve got 6 of last years motor homes to give away' , the number of people that like and share those beggars belief.

What's Facebook?

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I start the car from cold and drive into town 6 miles away I can easily get 50mpg. Coming back with a warm engine I can never get more than 40mpg.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are the figures I get when running local - ish, no motorway use, or trips over 30 miles.

 

Petrol, brimmed at the start, brimmed at the end.

 

3. 4 gallons of petrol used. £17. 76p

8 electric charges at £1 per charge. £8.

176 miles driven - very gently. Total cost £25. 76

 

So a comparable diesel engine, 2litre 150hp. @40mpg.

176 miles at 40mpg = 4. 4 gallons @ £5. 75 = £25. 30

 

So there it is, electric/petrol £25. 76

Diesel £25. 30

 

Hope the figures are understandable. If I had been presented with such figures at the start, I would have swerved the electric and got the diesel, no doubt about that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are the figures I get when running local - ish, no motorway use, or trips over 30 miles.

 

Petrol, brimmed at the start, brimmed at the end.

 

3. 4 gallons of petrol used. £17. 76p

8 electric charges at £1 per charge. £8.

176 miles driven - very gently. Total cost £25. 76

 

So a comparable diesel engine, 2litre 150hp. @40mpg.

176 miles at 40mpg = 4. 4 gallons @ £5. 75 = £25. 30

 

So there it is, electric/petrol £25. 76

Diesel £25. 30

 

Hope the figures are understandable. If I had been presented with such figures at the start, I would have swerved the electric and got the diesel, no doubt about that.

Not that much difference but what are the differences in purchase price and residual value as they'll be the big money, not fuel.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not that much difference but what are the differences in purchase price and residual value as they'll be the big money, not fuel.

Replacement cost of the batteries will be significant, insurance cost of the PHEV compared to diesel and the performance of the diesel should outshine the PHEV. Take the PHEV out of it's favoured environment and the diesel will be significantly better i. e. a 400 mile round trip.

 

That said, I'd love a PHEV for my other half, she does about 7 miles per day to work and back plus mid week journeys twice of about 40 miles, it would be ideal. Two things that stop me first is the price although I did find a second hand one that I considered and the second is my stubbornness with Mitsubishi advertising 155 mpg which is a complete and utter blatant lie.

 

For myself id go all electric, whilst not condoning street racing just look at what this Tesla does against highly tuned muscle cars. Watch in particular about half way through the Nitrous breathing monster and the rematch, sooooo funny

 

https://www. youtube. com/watch?v=ARzujfRiQ3c

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd agree about getting an EV for Mrs SDA. In fact we were seriously considering a Renault Zoe/Nissan Leaf for her a year ago as she does a max return journey of 30 miles in her car.

 

Both were reluctantly ruled out because they had small boots and the rear seats didn't fold to a flat floor. Our canvas dog crate wouldn't fit in either. Weirdly the tiny rear engined Renault Twingo, that turns on a 6p, beat them both as it has a flat floor and the dog crate fits fine.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not that much difference but what are the differences in purchase price and residual value as they'll be the big money, not fuel.

Take away the government subsidy and the PHEV was around the same price as the diesel. As for residual value, I would say the PHEV would come a poor second, mainly because of the battery issue, 5k to replace it. Why would anyone want to purchase a 3/4 year old car knowing full well there is a 5k hit looming on the horizon.

While all electric or electric/hybrid is on the whole a good idea, the technology is simply not good enough yet. Until a battery will deliver 4 or 5 hundred miles per charge and be capable of recharging in minutes instead of hours they are a poor substitute for petrol or diesel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Here are the figures I get when running local - ish, no motorway use, or trips over 30 miles.

 

Petrol, brimmed at the start, brimmed at the end.

 

3. 4 gallons of petrol used. £17. 76p

8 electric charges at £1 per charge. £8.

176 miles driven - very gently. Total cost £25. 76

 

So a comparable diesel engine, 2litre 150hp. @40mpg.

176 miles at 40mpg = 4. 4 gallons @ £5. 75 = £25. 30

 

So there it is, electric/petrol £25. 76

Diesel £25. 30

 

Hope the figures are understandable. If I had been presented with such figures at the start, I would have swerved the electric and got the diesel, no doubt about that.

Interesting - nobody is talking about any environmental impact as part of the decision!

That's why we switched to the PHEV - it seems, most of the time, to be working for us (but we do have solar panels :D )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But if you used it to commute to work it wouldn't be charged by solar for a large part of the year as it would be too dark when it was parked at home.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But if you used it to commute to work it wouldn't be charged by solar for a large part of the year as it would be too dark when it was parked at home.

 

I think the target is to install a large battery reservoir capacity on solar installations in order to fulfil this need. So charge the property batteries and then they charge the car batteries! And they charge your phone and . ..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're considering moving to a spot that has a solar array installed on the roof. Apparently it's a 2012 installation and is therefore on an early FIT tariff which has another 19 inflation proof years to run. The owner tells me he got £1,600 in FIT payments this year and his energy charges were about £1,200. I reckon that with a bit more judicious insulation and the fact that he fitted a new boiler last Autumn I can get those charges down to about £1,000 a year, so the FIT payment will exceed the energy bill by about £600 a year. It's overall effect though is to reduce our outgoings by £1,600 a year, which can't be bad.

 

Sadly current FIT tariffs, even with the much lower costs of installation, mean you only make about £500 to £1,000 'profit' over investment by the end of the 20 year contracts that are available now. The current owner of the place we're considering is trying to recoup some of his original installation costs in a premium on his property asking price.

 

Having read up on these things I have a query as to whether the the DC/AC Inverter is due for renewal, or has been renewed. Apparently they last around 5 years and cost about £800 to renew.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The current owner of the place we're considering is trying to recoup some of his original installation costs in a premium on his property asking price.

 

Having read up on these things I have a query as to whether the the DC/AC Inverter is due for renewal, or has been renewed. Apparently they last around 5 years and cost about £800 to renew.

 

So the FIT guarantee holds for all subsequent owners?

 

Can't really see why the inverter only lasts 5 years. Perhaps a contactor might need replacing due to pitted contacts or one of the high ripple current capacitors replacing, but surely both those are cheap and trivial to change?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

So the FIT guarantee holds for all subsequent owners?

 

Apparently so.

 

Can't really see why the inverter only lasts 5 years. Perhaps a contactor might need replacing due to pitted contacts or one of the high ripple current capacitors replacing, but surely both those are cheap and trivial to change?

 

That's from Which? and the Energy Saving Trust

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are the figures I get when running local - ish, no motorway use, or trips over 30 miles.

 

Petrol, brimmed at the start, brimmed at the end.

 

3. 4 gallons of petrol used. £17. 76p

8 electric charges at £1 per charge. £8.

176 miles driven - very gently. Total cost £25. 76

 

So a comparable diesel engine, 2litre 150hp. @40mpg.

176 miles at 40mpg = 4. 4 gallons @ £5. 75 = £25. 30

 

So there it is, electric/petrol £25. 76

Diesel £25. 30

 

Hope the figures are understandable. If I had been presented with such figures at the start, I would have swerved the electric and got the diesel, no doubt about that.

Your diesel figures are pessimistic, our 4wd 2. 2 did diesel auto (same engine/gearbox/running gear as the Outlander) does easily 45mpg driving as you suggest.

176 miles at 45mpg = 3. 9 gallons @£5. 75 =£22. 48

Edited by thebriars
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Honest John Real MPG site gives the official 2. 2 ASX figure as 48. 7mpg and averages submitted by users vary between 32. 5 and 41. 0mpg, giving an overall average of 38. 2mpg.

 

The diesel auto Outlander has the same official figure of 48. 7mpg and the supplied actual averages range between 30 and 42mpg, giving an overall average of 37. 0mpg.

 

The published kerbweight of the ASX is 1,540kg and the Outlander 1,610kg

 

The above consumption figs will include a mix of local and motorway driving, so I suspect removing long distance work from the figures would make the user reported consumption a bit worse than shown.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...