standrewac Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Hi, has anyone fitted these WSL safety bolts retrospectively? I note that Bailey and Fifth wheel are fitting them. I am considering them for my Coachman. Opinions please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Most people don't seem to have a problem with ordinary bolts so I can't actually see any point in fitting them. They don't even make good security bolts as the keys to them are all the same. I wont go as far as to say that they are a gimmick but I don't think you've really got to be concerned about the ones you've already got - just check them with a torque wrench as recommended by the van manufacturer. I'm sure that most incidence of wheels coming off - of which there aren't all that many but you'll hear about those that do rather than than the hundreds of thousands out there that don't - is down to poor maintenance or even attempted theft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Mariner Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) After loosing a wheel on my Bailey Olympus, I bought the WSL Kit that includes a Torque wrench and fitted the bolts to my Pegasus! I have not had any loose wheel bolts since! Edited February 19, 2017 by Hercules Grytpype_Thynne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durbanite Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Apparently it was a common problem on a number of Bailey Unicorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Grouse Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Chatting with the AWS technician while he serviced our caravan - he reckoned that the Bailey wheel loss issue was down to poor quality Chinese-made alloy wheels, not the bolts or torquing faults - and that it applied to all the UK manufacturers but the others just kept schtum! 1 Quote 2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Apparently it was a common problem on a number of Bailey Unicorns. Have you evidence of "common". It was a concern that Bailey's did something about it but I'm not sure that it was common. I had a U1 without the problem as did several otheres that I know, so common may not be the correct word. You've been reading too many sensational headlines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 After loosing a wheel on my Bailey Olympus, I bought the WSL Kit that includes a Torque wrench and fitted the bolts to my Pegasus! I have not had any loose wheel bolts since! Prior to your unfortunant incident, had you been torquing your wheel bolts as recommended by Bailey and other van manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Mariner Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Prior to your unfortunant incident, had you been torquing your wheel bolts as recommended by Bailey and other van manufacturers. That's like saying "we know your brakes don't work very well, so instead of fixing the problem,we recommend that you drive very slowly, otherwise any accidents will be your fault!!" A cop out!!! I can imagine car owners putting up with having to torque their wheel nuts/bolts before every journey! The wheel bolts with the floating collar is the solution and for the sake of a few quid, why not fit them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Mariner Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) Most people don't seem to have a problem with ordinary bolts so I can't actually see any point in fitting them. They don't even make good security bolts as the keys to them are all the same. I wont go as far as to say that they are a gimmick but I don't think you've really got to be concerned about the ones you've already got - just check them with a torque wrench as recommended by the van manufacturer. I'm sure that most incidence of wheels coming off - of which there aren't all that many but you'll hear about those that do rather than than the hundreds of thousands out there that don't - is down to poor maintenance or even attempted theft. I have two sets, one for each wheel and also two separate keys which only seem fit the set they came with! Edited February 19, 2017 by Hercules Grytpype_Thynne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 That's like saying "we know your brakes don't work very well, so instead of fixing the problem,we recommend that you drive very slowly, otherwise any accidents will be your fault!!" A cop out!!! I can imagine car owners putting up with having to torque their wheel nuts/bolts before every journey! The wheel bolts with the floating collar is the solution and for the sake of a few quid, why not fit them? so you didn't then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnathome Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Isn't the problem really that unlike car wheels which fit snugly over a central boss meaning that the wheel bolts have to deal with less movement direction, caravan wheels have no centralising boss meaning that the bolts have to deal with more forces. Don't know why they can't be the same as cars then the problem would go away. Ok, a few more pennies on the cost but worth it. 2 Quote John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orionwelwyn Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 We had a nearside wheel that came off an Elddis (terrible van)since then we have, after checking the torque on all our vans fitted milenco tell tales, so a glance at each wheel gives any indication of bolt movement,without the need to check with a wrench, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamD Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 so you didn't then Having loose bolts and woobbly wheels is the only way I can get my Tyrepal sensors to come to life. Thought that was standard! Quote Sam Range Rover Sport - Auto Sleepers Kensington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Grouse Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 The wheel bolts with the floating collar is the solution and for the sake of a few quid, why not fit them? Why do caravans need them and not all other vehicles? Isn't the problem really that unlike car wheels which fit snugly over a central boss meaning that the wheel bolts have to deal with less movement direction, caravan wheels have no centralising boss meaning that the bolts have to deal with more forces. Don't know why they can't be the same as cars then the problem would go away. Ok, a few more pennies on the cost but worth it. Some cars don't have a central boss - and for those that do, many after-market alloys use a plastic collar the reduce down the size of the standard bore. Quote 2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTQ Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 What these collared WSL bolts unarguably bring is that they store about three times the clamping energy, simply because the stretched length of the bolt due to the collar is longer. One can argue all day every day if extra retention ability is needed, but you can't argue a large amount more, is better. If WSL do a bolt that suits your caravan, then with them and using the same diligence as you would with the original bolts your chances of losing a wheel would be greatly reduced. If you don't use them and your service engineer works with due cleanliness and diligent torquing up, and then you retorque about 20 miles after a wheel fitting and every few months, plus you don't hit potholes, you should be okay. IMO, the standard bolts used with alloy wheels has not the reserves I would like to see. This is not saying they are not fit for purpose but I would want higher levels of reserves for unexpected settlement, from any cause. The "indicators" will only move once a bolt is coming undone, but the bolt tension can be lost long before a bolt rotates. Tension can be lost by the settlement of the surfaces, but storing up energy in an elastically stretched bolt helps minimise that loss of tension, and adding additional elastic energy is the feature collared bolts like WSL offer, brings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ern Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Why do caravans need them and not all other vehicles? Some cars don't have a central boss - and for those that do, many after-market alloys use a plastic collar the reduce down the size of the standard bore. Caravans shouldn't need "lardy da" wheel bolts. UNLESS their is something wrong! If there is something wrong it needs to be resolved at source. I suspect there's was something wrong, and it was resolved. It's a bit like the Truma regulator story. Cynic? Me? Na! Just a simple engineer. Quote Ern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caravanmedicswindon Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 They may be a good idea but why they don't have standard 19mm drive heads I will never understand! 1 Quote For any additional information or advice please have a look on my website. .....www. thecaravanmedic-swindon. co. uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTQ Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) Why do caravans need them and not all other vehicles? Some cars don't have a central boss - and for those that do, many after-market alloys use a plastic collar the reduce down the size of the standard bore. Some cars, lorries etc do use collared bolts (some LR 110s with alloys did] ; I also incorporated them in designs I was responsible for. They are needed when the worked length of the bolt is not otherwise adequately long enough to store enough energy to live with all settlement that could occur. So some alloy wheels need them some don't, it is all down to the worked bolt dimensions. Steel wheels act in part like disc-springs locally about the bolting so clamping energy can be stored there, thus placing less demand on designing it all into the bolts. Central bossing plays no part in wheel retention, the wheel is clamped by friction from the tension forces developed by the bolts alone. A spigot can be used but only with massive shrink fitted components, making on road wheel replacement totally outside a driver's ability and requiring special gear. They only help wheel changing as something to hold the wheels weight before the bolts do. Edited February 19, 2017 by JTQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Mariner Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 so you didn't then Actually I collected the van from a dealer and went straight onto my trip from there! The van had been checked over with paper work to prove it, however that paperwork did not include any reference to checking wheel bolts. Unlike you, I don't spend my time reading handbooks, unless I have a problem! I was not aware that there was a problem with alloy wheels and the Al-Ko chassis! Previous to this, I had 30 years of caravanning and had never ever torqued up my wheel bolts/nuts, travelling several thousand miles throughout Europe and the UK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durbanite Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Have you evidence of "common". It was a concern that Bailey's did something about it but I'm not sure that it was common. I had a U1 without the problem as did several otheres that I know, so common may not be the correct word. You've been reading too many sensational headlines Do a search on this forum and other caravan related forums and you will find evidence. Also note that I used the word "Apparently" to start my sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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