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Ian McH

2017 Commodore

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2 hours ago, dogman said:

Hi all, first time on here for a while.

 

Last weekend we said goodbye to our Commodore it had been a fantastic van with only minor (ish) issues, rear brake light that wasn't sealed and crack on the hekki rooflight being the two biggest issues. But after 3 years she who must be obeyed felt it was time to change.

 

After a very short time looking for a replacement we decided the only way to replace a buccaneer is with another buccaneer. So on Saturday we towed home our new 2020 Cruiser, so far I have to dispite my best efforts I am yet to find anything wrong. 

 

Lets hope this is a sign of things to come.

 

 

RIP Commodore then Dogman.

Hope new van is all you and senior ranks could hope for.:D

GB.

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Welcome to Cruiser ownership-we took delivery of ours in October and have been blown away by the build  quality after our first time out-sincerely hope this continues-cannot find a blob of silicon or screw cap out of place and we are fussy--all power to the Consett workforce!  Hope this is a sign of things to come under its new ownership perhaps?

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1 hour ago, Jezzerb said:

Welcome to Cruiser ownership-we took delivery of ours in October and have been blown away by the build  quality after our first time out-sincerely hope this continues-cannot find a blob of silicon or screw cap out of place and we are fussy--all power to the Consett workforce!  Hope this is a sign of things to come under its new ownership perhaps?

We are convinced that quality depends on when in the year you take delivery.  Our first 2016 Cruiser delivered in July was a heap of poo and eventually rejected after 11 months ownership.  Our second one a 2018 delivered in Oct 2017 has been brilliant with few minor issues.

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4 hours ago, Durbanite said:

We are convinced that quality depends on when in the year you take delivery.  Our first 2016 Cruiser delivered in July was a heap of poo and eventually rejected after 11 months ownership.  Our second one a 2018 delivered in Oct 2017 has been brilliant with few minor issues.

I think there is a lot of truth in that, maybe they increase  production rates due to high sales demand  from the two NEC shows. Causing them to hire temporary staff.

 

I have no proof of this but it does seem to make sense and people do seem to have less issues with the first batch of a model year before the NEC sales rush. I know once the dealer network has seen the new model years they place their orders for the first batch and can only order so many units.    

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It would be VERY interesting to do some research on this one-if this is the case we're very glad/lucky! I must admit I was very keen to get it before the NEC show but that was more because of delivery and getting the thing!  I really didn't think it would arrive on time due to past experience but it was bang on! The front seat option has just arrived-and that was exactly as predicted-2 months!  Not so worried about build quality on that! 

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17 hours ago, dogman said:

I think there is a lot of truth in that, maybe they increase  production rates due to high sales demand  from the two NEC shows. Causing them to hire temporary staff.

 

I have no proof of this but it does seem to make sense and people do seem to have less issues with the first batch of a model year before the NEC sales rush. I know once the dealer network has seen the new model years they place their orders for the first batch and can only order so many units.    

It is indeed interesting.

We ordered our Commodore at the Malvern show in September 2016, taking delivery in April 2017......clearly then, we would have been caught in the production tidal wave post the NEC shows. I guess the dealer's pre ordered number were insufficient to produce our van any earlier......OR (can't remember).....we said we'd be happy to wait until the next touring season started before taking delivery. Perhaps in the naive hope that one less winter outdoors would be beneficial. That said, when the van arrived we were very happy with it with the exception of a cracked A frame valance cover which was repaired (not replaced) under my direction.

My main concern with these vans is the engineering build standard rather than the cosmetic appearance, although the latter is very important.

Our current slow leak past the extractor fan seal points to poor assembly technique and/or poor structural rigidity exacerbated by water pooling on a dished roof.

Graham.

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Well, took down the lighting panel today and got up to 40% damp readings around the extractor fan housing. Staining behind the vinyl ceiling covering is visible to about 100mm from the housing.

 

On a positive there are no readings above 20% around the Stargazer. 

 

It goes in Monday for remedial action. To their credit the dealer is straight on it. No mention of waiting 4 weeks for Irwin Hymer to approve anything.

 

I'll report how it goes. 

Graham.

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Picking it up tomorrow, all being well.

Dealer has removed fan and housing and dried the aperture area.

He now reports all readings around vent housing at less than 12% and no damage to battening or roof board.

There may be a little residual discolouration of the vinyl but that wont be seen when the lighting panel is back up.
I had the option to have him tear down the ceiling but I have chosen structural integrity over cosmetics I wont see, reasoning that getting a factory level finish on a refit might be a challenge.

So, I am pleased and relieved and can't speak highly enough of the workshop staff at Pearman-Briggs.

Fingers crossed,

Graham.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, GB1309 said:

Picking it up tomorrow, all being well.

Dealer has removed fan and housing and dried the aperture area.

He now reports all readings around vent housing at less than 12% and no damage to battening or roof board.

There may be a little residual discolouration of the vinyl but that wont be seen when the lighting panel is back up.
I had the option to have him tear down the ceiling but I have chosen structural integrity over cosmetics I wont see, reasoning that getting a factory level finish on a refit might be a challenge.

So, I am pleased and relieved and can't speak highly enough of the workshop staff at Pearman-Briggs.

Fingers crossed,

Graham.

 

 

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It is a good job you noticed that Graham as it would have got much worse. I agree with you re leaving the ceiling boards in place as long as no discolouration is seen. My experience is over time they dry out even more and as long as caught early, leave no lasting stain.

Thx for the heads-up, its another area I will pay particular attention to going forwards.

First time I have seen mention of a leak from an Omnivent in a Buccaneer.

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2 hours ago, VOLVOVANNER said:

It is a good job you noticed that Graham as it would have got much worse. I agree with you re leaving the ceiling boards in place as long as no discolouration is seen. My experience is over time they dry out even more and as long as caught early, leave no lasting stain.

Thx for the heads-up, its another area I will pay particular attention to going forwards.

First time I have seen mention of a leak from an Omnivent in a Buccaneer.

Yep I'm OCD.....Obsessive Compulsive Dampmeter...😁

I think it was more seeping than leaking and would not be surprised if it had been since build. I certainly noticed the rusty screw last year but only because the Stargazer strings came adrift and I had to take the roof lighting panel down.

It's an Ill wind as they say.

Graham.

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When we collected our 2018 Cruiser we stayed on site and within 2 - 3 nights noticed water dripping from the region of where the Omnivent used to be.  The Omnivent had been removed and the air con fitted.  They had to completely removed the air con and redo the the fitting.  A couple of months later when in Spain the air con was not cooling down the caravan properly so we paid for a Spanish Dometic air con specialist to check.  Well £50 later not much difference.  Eventually I plucked up the courage to remove the coving etc.  I then noticed that they had fitted a tube in the wrong place.  Fixed it and lovely cool air again!  Dealer probably used an appy to do the original job although we paid full rates!

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So here is the answer to the roof leak around the omnivent.

Dealer discovered one of the securing screws that clamp the two halves of the assembly was fired in from below at about 10 degrees off vertical, missing its it's intended location and piercing the outer flange of the top half of the unit. This allowed any pooled water to leach past the screw, bypassing the roof seal. So a slow leak built in from manufacture by shoddy assembly. No fault with the mastic seal.

We now have a complete new top assembly and damp readings are all sub 5%, with no visible deterioration of decorative finish.

Very pleased and relieved. 

Graham.

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Great to see your Commodore has been all sorted so swiftly. We were passing and went into Pearman at the weekend but wasn't impressed with the partx figure given considering they had a 2017 Cruiser on the forecourt for a good few thousand more.

Erwin Hymer are still deliberating on our damp readings, took them five weeks to decide more photo's were required just when they had the Christmas break. We are still waiting on a reply to the photo's sent in on the 2nd January. I do wonder if it was partly condensation as it was cold and we had to use the van overnight before the service.

My damp readings are not as high as the service damp readings and the board is not so evident.

Going to ask my local service engineer to do an independant damp report. Meanwhile I am getting more frustrated and disillusioned with the brand. I'm sure you know what I mean.

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7 hours ago, Ian McH said:

Meanwhile I am getting more frustrated and disillusioned with the brand. I'm sure you know what I mean.

I do know what you mean Ian.

Sorry I overlooked P33 here when I replied to the other thread. Doh.

Did PB know of the ongoing damp issue when they quoted you a p/x figure? I've always done fairly well with them on change up, particularly when we came to this one from the (3 new fronts) Caravelle. Must have been a pity element in the deal.🥴

I just hope this van holds together now.

Keep us posted on your progress. 

Graham.

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On 04/12/2019 at 17:40, dogman said:

I think there is a lot of truth in that, maybe they increase  production rates due to high sales demand  from the two NEC shows. Causing them to hire temporary staff.

 

I have no proof of this but it does seem to make sense and people do seem to have less issues with the first batch of a model year before the NEC sales rush. I know once the dealer network has seen the new model years they place their orders for the first batch and can only order so many units.    

All the dealers have placed their requirements for the next years models before the summer shutdown well before the NEC shows.  ( for the last 4 or 5 years anyway as production is then full). Previous to this they used to manufacture stock vans, but when the crash hit in 2008, the orders  dried up, so now only make to pre-order. 

The factory at Consett is old and on several levels so cannot be extended to increase production, although there were rumors that the van storage area was going to be built on when Hymer took over but this hasn't happened and its predicted that a dip in sales will be seen shortly as they have been on a high(max production) for several years.

Regarding quality, lots of factors here, but temp staff could be one as turnover can be high and it still runs on a piece work pay scheme so quality is not rewarded with pay but output. 

 

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5 hours ago, GB1309 said:

Did PB know of the ongoing damp issue when they quoted you a p/x figure?

 

 

I didn't mention the damp as we need to get the warranty issues sorted before seriously looking. I do still very much like the layout and the extras that the Buccaneer has. The E&P and heated floor is not something easily found together in another brand.

Thanks Ian.

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2 hours ago, Benny65 said:

Regarding quality, lots of factors here, but temp staff could be one as turnover can be high and it still runs on a piece work pay scheme so quality is not rewarded with pay but output. 

Well, that tells us a fair bit. Fastest hand on the mastic gun trigger wins.😟

1 hour ago, Ian McH said:

I do still very much like the layout and the extras that the Buccaneer has. The E&P and heated floor is not something easily found together in another brand.

Totally agree Ian. Fired by your earlier post we called by to check ours on the way home this morning. All seemed good and that 'new' smell was still prevalent. 

Better than being confronted  by a damp musty aroma!

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Posted (edited)

There is nothing inherently wrong with piece work, most industries use it including the Aircraft industry.

The key, is robust manufacturing process and quality control.  Also you have to bear in mind what they are producing and what expectations we as customers put on these products. 

We expect a fully fitted caravan, will all the comforts of home, yet as light as possible to be towed by the normal family car and still be affordable. We then expect it to be able to handle the poor roads we tow it on and finally, not leak. I know the idea of building a caravan that does not leak seems easy, but honestly it is far more difficult than many realize.

 

I work in an industry where safety and quality is of paramount importance and we suffer leaks.

 

I am in no way condoning or accepting the quality of some of the caravans produced and have been through the misery of owning a caravan that probably would not have suffered anymore damp if they had not fitted the roof.  

 

Manufactures have to improve their method and process, but I think we also have to understand that there is a reason caravans have warranties and not guarantees.

 

 

 

Edited by dogman
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